They already said the art team put the effort they'd normally put on a new class into new personalisation/appearance options, which are probably going to culminate in a massive change / new feature.
The fact this expansion focuses on improving what's already there is a positive. It doesn't need massive revamps to classes that leave them unrecognisable, it only needs to rediscover what made classes fun when they were at their best, such as during MoP.
Stop worrying about whether something is shiny and new or not, what matters is whether the end product is a more enjoyable game. Tacking on new features when the fundamentals are lacking doesn't work as has been made abundantly clear over the last few years.
Oh great, now the trend is gonna be "WoW's in maintenance mode" even though we're getting just as much stuff.
Originally Posted by Boomzy
New personalization and appearance options don't actually impact gameplay mechanics which is why its disappointing that they chose to do that over actually making classes feel fun again. Nothing they've announced shows how classes will be improved or better. Adding a bunch of old abilities to the game that saw niche use at best isn't how you make classes fun again.
So what exactly are they improving that is already there? I didn't read about a single mechanical change to classes. Maybe I'm missing it. Classes feel broken right now, have for a couple expansions, and they have not announced any changes in regards to that.
Internal restrictions on staff, timeline and budget mixed with confusion on where to take this 15 year old monstrosity. Shouldering all of that while having a middling development vision doesn't product great results.
Game needs a sequel with a focused goal. Issue is even if they got that, a whole fresh start, I still don't think the actual talent is there to make a memorable product.
One thing I'll say is that there is no salvaging the writing anymore. The characters, the narrative, it's nearly impossible to care about any of it. It is absolutely astounding just how bad it is.
The race/class section is the most concerning to me. I've always felt like the class you're playing is the vehicle by which you experience the entire game, and if that isn't fun, nothing else will be. Post Legion this was the case. Artifacts added a lot of interesting stuff for your class. BFA they pulled a few things off of that system and baked it in, and then replaced it with by far the worst character progression I've ever seen - the Azerite Traits. Like this ability? Cool, but now you got a higher ilevel helm and you have to replace it. Good luck getting another helm at the same ilevel with the ability you want.
Completely agree with giving back what they've taken away isn't an expansion feature. I was expecting a new class, and sure I was disappointed about that, but there is NO reason to not do ANYTHING with existing classes. In threads I said I'd be happy with no Tinker, no Dark Ranger, no any new class if they showed they put the work in elsewhere to make the existing 12 classes more interesting. Class skins, 4th specs, back to the drawing board with the prgoression UI, new talent tree design... literally anything.
Basically I thought, even if no new class, given the last 2 years of BFA had non existent character progression, we'd probably finally get to see all the work they put into revamping the base classes.
Like are they working on another game? Are they just happy with the way classes are atm? I wish someone could ask them.
This is by far the most important part of what makes this game fun to play. If your class isn't interesting to play, the game isn't.
I feel mostly the same way the OP feels but I do want to mention that Anima is absolutely the new/same AP Grind. We're never, ever getting rid of mission tables and AP. They're both here to stay, in some capacity, for the rest of the game's life cycle.
I. Covenants / Soulbinds
Covenants are a new take on the old Reputation grind that we've all come to love (hate). It's a completely new version of the BC-era Aldor/Scryer decision. Do you have to make a choice? Yes. Does it matter? Yes, which is nice compared to what we got with the A/S decision, which amounted to very little then and nothing now other that which elevator to go up. Plus, not only are you choosing one option, but three, and from four different Covenants. Sure, maybe you can't get the best option for all three, but figure out which is most important to you, and pick that one. Or maybe you just like the lore from one better. For my Rogue, the teleport is pretty much useless, so he'll go with the one that has a slow-fall. And since the mount and tmog gear isn't game-changing, those will just come along for the ride.
The Soulbinds seem like a good change on the now-old bodyguard concept. While my Priest liked having a follower to take a beating for me, my Rogue hated the things always pulling aggro while I'm stealthing around. Soulbinds have more flavor (talents!) and don't cause problems like the ones who literally follow you around, so this sounds good to me.
II. Races/Classes
We've gotten a new race and/or class with every expansion (sometimes both, sometimes multiple new races). What they HAVEN'T done before is give me the option to play a character with new looks, like an actual black or Asian Human, or a Wildhammer Dwarf. Even better, I'm hoping I will be able to take advantage of these new cosmetic options to change my existing characters without having to pay for a race change. And seriously, do we really need another class? Isn't a dozen enough?
III. Torghast / Maw
As a mostly solo player now, Torghast sounds awesome. I like dungeon crawls. I don't like having to deal with finding a group of random people whose only goal is to finish the dungeon as fast as possible. I want to do something hard without needing to find people who aren't complete morons or jerks to do it with. This is an absolute winner for me, and is reason enough on its own to give Shadowlands a try.
IV. Lore/Story
TBH, I find the predictability of the story a bit disappointing, especially on the heels of several variant "leaks" that all got the name right, and the basic premise, even if they missed most everything else. That said, the only expansion stories I've really been disappointed with to this point are BC (I know, most people loved this one), Cata, and BfA. If Blizzard can write an over-arching story that's as fascinating as Drustvar (which was fantastic, despite the rest of BfA being pretty lame), this could be their best expansion since Wrath. I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now, but I'll admit to my skepticism.
V. Leveling / Alts
The level squish was coming and we all knew it. I'm very intrigued by the updates they gave for leveling and alts, and I love the idea of being able to level in the expansion of my choice from 10-50. With the increased speed of leveling (I believe someone suggested 60-70% faster), I doubt any one expansion, played fully through, will run out of quests.
My overall impression is one of cautious optimism. That said, I'm subscribed (thanks tokens!), but haven't played in a few months now. I'll need a longer break before I can come back with any enthusiasm regardless of anything that might come with 9.0.
I agree completely with this. No matter how amazing the game itself is, if there isn't a class that I truly click with and love the play style of, I won't be able to play or enjoy the game. The class is the catalyst and should really receive the most development time in expansions to improve it. It seems like this expansion classes have been completely ignored based on what we have heard so far.
I've been largely playing the same caster classes since vanilla. Caster is the archetype I enjoy the most. I don't mind trying melee once in a while, but I need a good caster class too. The fact that we haven't seen a new dps caster added to the game by this point is astounding.
If these are your emphasis for a good expansion then you're only setting yourself up for continual disappointment. Development is always a matter of priority, you're free to take the piss on blizzard for not just hiring more people and appeasing everyone. The belief that they can't do a good expansion and maintain the current game at the same time is idiotic and there's plenty of evidence in the past to contest it.
If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.
Yeah, I think I agree with you on every point.
I do think the new customization options are a fine reason not to have new allied races on launch, and I personally don't mind not having a new class. But I think "class skins" would have been a perfect fit next to more character customization: "now your character looks better and their class fits their identity".
I imagine the Covenant system will mutate a lot throughout beta and over the course of the expansion, to the point where switching Covenant may just be restricted by a weekly cooldown, and the abilities they provide will either be changed to be way more situational, or just the same abilities with different appearances for each Covenant. I find it a bit shortsighted that they think they can pull this off the way they've announced. This is their eighth expansion, they should know better by now.
I am hopeful for Torghast, I think it could provide decent repeatable content and a challenge at the highest difficulties. Then again, I've always supported random/procedural evergreen features for WoW, and I kind of like Island Expeditions, so it seems up my alley anyway.
All in all, "something" is missing, and if the two main features don't succeed on providing fun daily/weekly content, the expansion will be a repeat of WoD.
I somewhat agree on this point. I'm not going to pick a covenant based on some 5% numerical benefit, I'm going to pick based on mechanics and theme. So for example, maybe you're a Death Knight and you play Unholy and Blood. Necrolord sounds like a lot of mechanics will line up thematically with Unholy, and the Vampires will line up a lot with Blood. You can only pick one. I have no idea how this will play out, but it actually makes the game slightly more interesting to me. I used to like when spec mattered more and it was like ok you play either but you're primarily a Blood DK...
So every single Blood DK won't look like every other Blood DK. If one picks Necrolord they'll look like an undead general, and have maybe some cooler looking undead minion (since they're getting Raise Dead back) and if the other goes Vampire they may have more life leech, and look different.
They didn't talk about any of the mechanics for the Soulbinds yet so we'll have to see how it plays out, but if they are actually meaningful choices this could be pretty neat.
Also want to add... this could make alts of the same class more interesting. Previously there wasn't much of a reason to roll an alt of the same class other than if you wanted just another race combo.
Now if you play Shadowlands... you might want a DK you can go Necrolord with and a DK you can go Vamp with. However, Blizzard will need to make the swapping of Covenant tough enough so that just swapping isn't so much easier than making a new toon. We'll see what they do.
Last edited by ro9ue; 2019-11-04 at 06:28 PM.
I guess key people left cuz they knew what's coming and didn't want to be a part of that.
Mike Morhaime may have been against this half assed attitude, so he was fired.
Blizzard is dead like Apple, imo
Shadowlands is real world
The Maw is China
The Jailer is China government
Sylvanas is Blizz