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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Do you have a convincing reason why your completely made up and totally unrealistic statements about Subtlety's "viability" or "pvp exclusivity" should be worth anything at all in this conversation, or are you deserving of the clown face as well?
    Again with the poor reading comprehension.

    I haven't said that Subtlety should be "PvP exclusive."

    What I have said is that Subtlety PvP, due to its history, due to being the spec that Neilyo played, that Reckful played, the spec made famous by Korean RPMs in Wrath, the spec of choice for Rogue PvP connoisseurs, the spec played in most famous and memorable Rogue PvP videos....

    ...and due to Rogue being a 3 spec class where all 3 specs fill the same role, and PvE Rogues having 2 other other traditionally good specs to choose from...

    ...then Subtlety PvP should not be sacrificed for PvE design, the way it was in Legion and BFA for the first time in history.

    It's very simple to understand:

    Before Legion, for over a decade: Subtlety is usually great in PvP

    Since Legion: there isn't a single Rogue spec which is fun to play in PvP lol


    Obviously this state of affairs is not going to be acceptable to PvP Rogues.

    Nothing about this is at all made up, unlike the other posters ridiculous, laughable, and completely made up assertion that there are 99 Rogues that want to play Subtlety in PvE for every 1 Rogue who wants to play Subtlety in PvP. LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    Can backstab actually do more damage than an auto attack now? And can we get rid of the cancerous charge system on SD? Literally anything pre-legion for the fucking love of kek.
    YUP, exactly. And the best way to accomplish this is via strong Find Weakness. A strong Find Weakness design perfectly encapsulates all of the above.

    But really they could pick any pre-Legion patch at random and it would be a massive improvement over this brainless, hamfisted, incoherent, purple particle effects but no gameplay substance, Fisher-Price garbage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    Doesn't mean a spec can't be higher skill cap or well designed like sub was previously, pre-class fantasy AIDS.
    Subtlety has always been that spec.

    Therefore there is no universe in which it was fair to Subtlety players to turn the spec into something completely different, that serves an entirely different audience.

    Restore greatness to Subtlety spec! The greatest spec that ever existed in WoW.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2019-12-15 at 02:51 AM.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  2. #102
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    Restore greatness to Subtlety spec! The greatest spec that ever existed in WoW.
    You know I think the great irony in subtlety which doubled down on their failure of a redesign is it even feels atrocious to play in pve. Like who the fuck is gonna choose sub over sin or outlaw in literally any content lol.. not only did they fail pvpers but pvers too.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    You know I think the great irony in subtlety which doubled down on their failure of a redesign is it even feels atrocious to play in pve. Like who the fuck is gonna choose sub over sin or outlaw in literally any content lol.. not only did they fail pvpers but pvers too.
    The good news is I believe you've got cause and effect backwards here.

    The reason Subtlety PvE is tuned into the dirt currently is that a redesign is planned and Blizzard doesn't want to get people getting attached to the current absolutely awful playstyle.

    Snipped all the useless and frankly not proving anythong videos. Another of these rampages and the thread is closed.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2019-12-15 at 11:12 AM.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  4. #104
    there are different ways to winning playing rogue. but since legion and bfa assassination is the spec that kills us subtlety rogues. idk thanks for videos. when ever some rogue figure out a newer way to beat rogues blizz comes down all hard and nerfs the fuck out of it. seems to be my experience. blizzard is the most annoying company; to play their games.

    i just happen in wod to get the legendary daggers and i equipped the 25man version on it for the first time. one really good rogue was waiting there for me and i ended up winning the pvp battle with the obsolete legendary in hand. WOD expac rogue duel. i won with 1% hp. but what caught my attention was this guy was probably one of those rogues because he is alliance. i won him in the end with the legendary dagger lol. thats my wod story.
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    But really they could pick any pre-Legion patch at random and it would be a massive improvement over this brainless, hamfisted, incoherent, purple particle effects but no gameplay substance, Fisher-Price garbage!
    So, how much more in specific numbers is Sub more brainless and hamfisted then the Golden Age? 50%? 100%? 150%? over 9000%?

    Your goal of a Sub design which returns to "the roots" is commendable, but your propaganda machine is pulling the exact same stunts as any advertising campaign
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  6. #106
    Great thread, OP is calling people who play PVE "clowns".

    Very constructive indeed.

  7. #107
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    So, how much more in specific numbers is Sub more brainless and hamfisted then the Golden Age? 50%? 100%? 150%? over 9000%?

    Your goal of a Sub design which returns to "the roots" is commendable, but your propaganda machine is pulling the exact same stunts as any advertising campaign
    The goal of sub design is to be bursty/CC setup with decent sustained like it used to be, and if you can't line shit up then you fail. High risk high reward. Currently is braindead pve rotation, get it or do we need to explain more clearly? Sub rn is literally worse than legion surv hunter and demo lock, but they completely destroyed 3 specs in legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    Great thread, OP is calling people who play PVE "clowns".

    Very constructive indeed.
    I mean if you defend current sub you are a pve clown, its a fact. I'm not saying you are, I am not reading previous posts, but current spec is pure cancer that even a layman shouldn't enjoy playing. You can choose either full burst with 0 sustain and high downtime or hybrid with mediocre dmg and all your filler regardless hit like a wet noodle its absolutely fucking horrible to play it feels BAD hell even the new attack sounds are fucking aids it sounds like I'm slicing people with paper cuts and when your auto attacks hit harder than backstab its not that far from the truth..

    Straight RETARD developers.

    Sub is the only spec that was never revisited after the great legion calamity of D3 design takeover.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2019-12-16 at 09:25 AM.

  8. #108
    Are people using the phrase "literally worse" "pure cancer" "RETARD" and "pve clown" even allowed to use the internet unsupervised?
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Are people using the phrase "literally worse" "pure cancer" "RETARD" and "pve clown" even allowed to use the internet unsupervised?
    Funny enough you mostly see these kinds of posts from PvP-players that make it their goal in life to be as edgy as possible in every place.

  10. #110
    I still want my meta lock now. Played my demo lock from vanilla to legion and dumped him over The new play style that doesn’t do it for me

    I’d rather become a warlock demon, or control one super mega demon than be a babysitter of imps

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    Great thread, OP is calling people who play PVE "clowns".

    Very constructive indeed.
    What is with the terrible reading comprehension????

    The only people I've called clowns are those like Kaver who make up ridiculous and laughable numbers like "there are 99 PvE Subtlety Roogues for every 1 PvP Subtlety Rogue" who say that the entire history of Subtlety PvP excellence should be disregarded to make it yet another generic PvE spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    Snipped all the useless and frankly not proving anythong videos. Another of these rampages and the thread is closed.
    Nonsense.

    You couldn't post a similar string of videos for combat or assassination. You can find a couple but the output is nowhere near as prolific, nor as consistent throughout each patch of the game's history.

    The culture and history of the Rogue PvP video is synonymous with the culture and history of the Subtlety Rogue! This is obvious and trivial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Are people using the phrase "literally worse" "pure cancer" "RETARD" and "pve clown" even allowed to use the internet unsupervised?
    Notice at this point that you have given up on winning the argument based on ideas and the content of the posts, and instead you are attacking tone.

    It's all you have left to stand on.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2019-12-15 at 06:46 PM.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post


    Notice at this point that you have given up on winning the argument based on ideas and the content of the posts, and instead you are attacking tone.

    It's all you have left to stand on.
    Whereas you post word after word of thoughtful arguments? You pulled out infantile ad hominem attacks first.

    I don't have to win anything, because it's you who wants to change the status quo.

    You never had anything to stand on, yet you are still here, blabbering about the good old times of PvP nostalgia. You are nothing more then a misguided fanatic.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  13. #113
    I am Murloc! Scoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    Can backstab actually do more damage than an auto attack now? And can we get rid of the cancerous charge system on SD? Literally anything pre-legion for the fucking love of kek.

    PS: Hop of of assassinations fucking cock Blizzard, outlaw and sub should be pvp viable too. It's 2019(20). We no longer just accept a single spec to be playable in our favorite content. Doesn't mean a spec can't be higher skill cap or well designed like sub was previously, pre-class fantasy AIDS.

    Maybe global poisons can help in this regard as far as outlaw is concerned, but still needs some armor ignoring/piercing mechanic probably along with MS.. sub needs a complete redesign to its original incarnation.
    Backstab doing such pitiful damage, along with the "builder" abilities of other classes such as mages, has been such a sad development ever since like MoP and made worse during Legion. I would far more prefer if spender abilities such as Eviscerate and Ice Lance have their power reduced so abilities like Backstab/Ambush and Frostbolt could do meaningful damage again.

    The worst part is that the Energy resource doesn't even feel meaningful anymore (imo) thanks to the high energy regeneration across the board and the low damage energy spending abilities do. It sucks that Blizzard is catering more towards players who don't like any downtime at the cost abilities dealing less damage opposed to those who like high hitting abilities but don't mind the down time that comes with it.

    It's why I quite like arcane mage nowadays. It feels like every button I press is truly meaningful since every button press does a significant amount of damage.

  14. #114
    Ok, i suppose this ends here. Any other thread about "old sub pvp glory" will be closed by default, as it seems discussions cannot be had in a reasonable way.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

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