UK beats China in developing social credit systems

[Edge-]

It leaves a hole that can be exploited to deny treatment...

After the patient has been checked in and is being treated, and after they've been warned about their behavior.

Or, after the patient has had a history of abusing the staff.

I'm all for ensuring access to care, but if all you're going to do is harass and abuse medical professionals, then maybe you should reconsider your life choices. These people don't deserve that, and shouldn't be subjected to that as a part of their "normal" job.

In any other establishment in any profession, removing people who are regularly harassing staff/employees is normal.

All you have to do is claim someone did something racist to deny them treatment. Perfect world I don't see a problem with it.

Do you know the investigation and enforcement policies? I didn't see them specified in the linked article.

In the real world I can't see how this won't be abused. It feels weird that I have to explain to people why denying medical treatment is a bad thing..

Because most medical professionals aren't shitbirds? Most just want to help treat people, not use their position to discriminate.

It's not about denying medical treatment. It's about protecting medical professionals.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This isn't even close to China's social credit system. Click bait title is click bait. Perhaps people shouldn't be racist fuckwads if they want medical treatment?

[Teleros]

Most institutions and organisations already respond like this - try getting service in a restaurant or boarding a plane while racially abusing the staff and I suspect you will be denied, it doesn't mean those businesses are operating a Chinese-style social-credit system.

If the NHS was like an airliner or a restaurant instead of a taxpayer-funded government healthcare service you might have had a point.

Its literally just a system to report if you are being treated badly within a hospital. You are an idiot OP

Someone fails at reading.

"This means that any patient abusing staff will be challenged and warned, leading to a sports-style disciplinary yellow card and then final red card in which treatment would be withdrawn as soon as is safe."

Reporting system my arse.

Alt-right misinformation

Straight from the Alt-Right at Bristol NHS I guess...?

Nobody should be required to serve people who are being racist shitbags.

Again, it's the NHS, the thing all those "racist shitbags" pay for through their taxes. Your attitude is precisely the kind of thing that will (a) result in more racism, and (b) widespread civil unrest.

You will get thrown out of most places of business for those violations, if you do not heed the warnings of the staff, that you need to chill the fuck out.

Fighting white supreeemists takes priority over the Hippocratic oath I guess :P . Mind you, what with doctors killing unborn babies and euthanising people I guess this was probably inevitable. "Do no harm... unless it's an unborn child, a person you decide is better off dead, or that evil nazi woman who doesn't want a 300lb ex-weight-lifting MtF transsexual doing her cervical swab."

You making this into a slight toward white people is telling as fuck, considering those acts toward a white staff member would likewise elicit a similar response.

This is the UK we're talking about. I harbour no illusions as to what would happen if this NHS trust tried to go after a non-white and/or Muslim for mean words. I mean, umpteen local councils swept organised child rape gangs under the carpet for years because they feared being called racist, do you really think they won't do the same in this case?

This isn't even close to China's social credit system. Click bait title is click bait.

Cry me a river, and yes it's exactly like China's social credit system, it's just that we in the West use multiple allegedly independent bodies rather than one central one. The patient's records will include this stuff, meaning any hospital or other facility that has access to NHS patient records will be able to see they're guilty of BadThink. FB, Paypal, Twitter, the banks, now the NHS... and if you think all these big organisations don't talk to each other on the quiet you're an idiot.

Perhaps people shouldn't be racist fuckwads if they want medical treatment?

Fine, but why stop there then? We should also deny them bank accounts, welfare, jobs, and the ability to buy stuff, including food, housing, and clothing, unless they are ideologically compliant. I'm sure that will work out just fine. What's that? Riots and civil war? Blood in the streets? Oh don't be silly, all the BadThink people will be confronted by this stuff and just meekly comply .

[Edge-]

Fine, but why stop there then?

Because slippery slope arguments are terrible arguments when you have literally nothing left.

[Teleros]

Because slippery slope arguments are terrible arguments when you have literally nothing left.

Just look at the progression of LGBTQ stuff - it went from decriminalising sodomy to celebrating child drag queens in... how many decades again?

Hell, if you don't like that one, consider how often the MSM and the like bash Twitter trolls and sites like 4chan because they allegedly radicalise people and turn them into evil nazis or w/e. That's just the slippery slope "fallacy" too.

[Edge-]

Just look at the progression of LGBTQ stuff - it went from decriminalising sodomy to celebrating child drag queens in... how many decades again?

...what does one have to do with the other?

Sodomy isn't an exclusively LGBTQ+ thing FYI.

Who is celebrating child drag queens? Is that any different than all the reality TV shows about child beauty pageants? Those have been pretty popular.

And none of that has anything to do with the reality that slippery slope arguments are trash and always will be.

Hell, if you don't like that one, consider how often the MSM and the like bash Twitter trolls and sites like 4chan because they allegedly radicalise people and turn them into evil nazis or w/e. That's just the slippery slope "fallacy" too.

...no, it's not. When you, for example, reference people being radicalized on 8chan before they post their own manifesto prior to a shooting on 8chan...that's not a slippery slope, that's a direct connection.

Edit: But none of that has to do with the fact that your OP is grossly hyperbolic and misleading. This has literally nothing in common with the Chinese "social score" in the slightest.

[PC2]

Yeah this is retarded but it's not as bad as China's social credit idea for the following reasons. People can be competent when it comes to criticizing unreasonable behavior, but we're not good when it comes to scoring people based on what they "ought" to do. As in positively giving people points. This hospital only does the former not the latter.

You can see this asymmetry in everything from a government credit system, to rating food, or even scoring a UFC fight. Rewarding people with points is more subjective then recognizing when someone broke a rule.

[Whiskyjack]

After the patient has been checked in and is being treated, and after they've been warned about their behavior.

Or, after the patient has had a history of abusing the staff.

I'm all for ensuring access to care, but if all you're going to do is harass and abuse medical professionals, then maybe you should reconsider your life choices. These people don't deserve that, and shouldn't be subjected to that as a part of their "normal" job.

In any other establishment in any profession, removing people who are regularly harassing staff/employees is normal.



Do you know the investigation and enforcement policies? I didn't see them specified in the linked article.



Because most medical professionals aren't shitbirds? Most just want to help treat people, not use their position to discriminate.

It's not about denying medical treatment. It's about protecting medical professionals.

I agree most are not but one could be. I see this as a pandora's box. Nothing good can come of opening it.

[Teleros]

...what does one have to do with the other?

Aside from the destruction of the Christian bedrock of Western morality, you mean?

Go find some scanned copies of the original US gay rights movement manifesto. They got the gay marriage part under Obama, but they're still working on the bit about legalising paedophilia.

Sodomy isn't an exclusively LGBTQ+ thing FYI.

Traditionally it referred homosexual acts, and though sometimes it could be said to include heterosexual anal sex, most people just associate it with homosexuality.

Who is celebrating child drag queens? Is that any different than all the reality TV shows about child beauty pageants? Those have been pretty popular.

Your not helping your case :P .

And none of that has anything to do with the reality that slippery slope arguments are trash and always will be.

Yet another case of slavish adherence to avoiding logical fallacies blinding someone to reality. Look: if you say 1+1=3, and I say no because you're an idiot, my conclusion that you're wrong is correct even though my argument was an ad hominem fallacy.

...no, it's not. When you, for example, reference people being radicalized on 8chan before they post their own manifesto prior to a shooting on 8chan...that's not a slippery slope, that's a direct connection.

1. Mmm, funny how Facebook et al manage to escape this kind of thing. Where did the NZ shooter stream again?

2. Assuming it's not a false flag. God knows there have been enough of them throughout history - beyond the origin of the phrase, consider the Gulf of Tonkin, or the Mukden / Manchurian Incident, etc etc etc.

3. Watch this space for when the media starts pushing bestiality and/or paedophilia.

Edit: But none of that has to do with the fact that your OP is grossly hyperbolic and misleading. This has literally nothing in common with the Chinese "social score" in the slightest.

People found guilty in an extrajudicial manner of BadThink have a permanent record attached to them about it that follows them everywhere and which can affect their ability to do other stuff? No, that's nothing like this NHS plan, or Twitter mobs et al at all .

[Infraction]

[Edge-]

I agree most are not but one could be. I see this as a pandora's box. Nothing good can come of opening it.

So what's the alternative? Continue to let medical professionals be subject to abuse and harassment without recourse?

Aside from the destruction of the Christian bedrock of Western morality, you mean?

Or just, you know, general morality like, "Stealing and killing is bad" without the religious angle. Christian religions didn't create morality.

Go find some scanned copies of the original US gay rights movement manifesto. They got the gay marriage part under Obama, but they're still working on the bit about legalising paedophilia.

Citation needed for this insane claim.

Traditionally it referred homosexual acts, and though sometimes it could be said to include heterosexual anal sex, most people just associate it with homosexuality.

Yes, it was used to discriminate against LGBT folks (minus the fact that like...not all of them engage in that behavior and whatnot). I'm simply pointing out that it hasn't been, and still isn't, exclusive to the LGBT community.

Your not helping your case :P .

Still waiting to see who's celebrating child drag pageants or how children are being abused/manipulated.

I was simply pointing out that this isn't something remotely unique to LGBTQ+ folks and is very much an "American" thing, and one could argue a much bigger thing for straight America given the success of those shows.

Yet another case of slavish adherence to avoiding logical fallacies blinding someone to reality. Look: if you say 1+1=3, and I say no because you're an idiot, my conclusion that you're wrong is correct even though my argument was an ad hominem fallacy.

Ok, this has nothing to do with my point. You made a slippery slope argument that's beyond weak. That's my whole point. Literally.

1. Mmm, funny how Facebook et al manage to escape this kind of thing. Where did the NZ shooter stream again?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/face...t-content.html

They haven't. And they're still being grilled on it. Also, a bad "whataboutism" that doesn't address the point.

2. Assuming it's not a false flag. God knows there have been enough of them throughout history - beyond the origin of the phrase, consider the Gulf of Tonkin, or the Mukden / Manchurian Incident, etc etc etc.

"False flag" arguments have been garbage as well and those instances are exceedingly rare.

3. Watch this space for when the media starts pushing bestiality and/or paedophilia.

How many decades have people been pearl clutching about this being an imminent reality? Still hasn't happened. And won't.

Because both are expressly illegal. Animals cannot give consent. Children cannot legally give consent. Period.

People found guilty in an extrajudicial manner of BadThink have a permanent record attached to them about it that follows them everywhere and which can affect their ability to do other stuff? No, that's nothing like this NHS plan, or Twitter mobs et al at all .

How does this follow them "everywhere"? How will this impact them outside of the regional NHS operations? You've yet to establish either.

And again, this isn't anything like the proposed Chinese social score.

Does it track peoples online viewing habits?
Their online purchasing?
Track their gaming/viewing time?
Invade their privacy even in their home?

No? Cool, so you're making a terrible argument trying to claim that a small, reasonable move is somehow similar to an extreme move without a hint of irony.

Your hyperbole is utter nonsense.

And "badthink" has literally nothing to do with this. This is a response to actions and behavior, not thought. You can be a gigantic racist shitbird all you want and still get care without issue, just as long as you're not a gigantic racist shitbird to medical staff.

[Machismo]

If the NHS was like an airliner or a restaurant instead of a taxpayer-funded government healthcare service you might have had a point.


Someone fails at reading.

"This means that any patient abusing staff will be challenged and warned, leading to a sports-style disciplinary yellow card and then final red card in which treatment would be withdrawn as soon as is safe."

Reporting system my arse.


Straight from the Alt-Right at Bristol NHS I guess...?


Again, it's the NHS, the thing all those "racist shitbags" pay for through their taxes. Your attitude is precisely the kind of thing that will (a) result in more racism, and (b) widespread civil unrest.


Fighting white supreeemists takes priority over the Hippocratic oath I guess :P . Mind you, what with doctors killing unborn babies and euthanising people I guess this was probably inevitable. "Do no harm... unless it's an unborn child, a person you decide is better off dead, or that evil nazi woman who doesn't want a 300lb ex-weight-lifting MtF transsexual doing her cervical swab."


This is the UK we're talking about. I harbour no illusions as to what would happen if this NHS trust tried to go after a non-white and/or Muslim for mean words. I mean, umpteen local councils swept organised child rape gangs under the carpet for years because they feared being called racist, do you really think they won't do the same in this case?


Cry me a river, and yes it's exactly like China's social credit system, it's just that we in the West use multiple allegedly independent bodies rather than one central one. The patient's records will include this stuff, meaning any hospital or other facility that has access to NHS patient records will be able to see they're guilty of BadThink. FB, Paypal, Twitter, the banks, now the NHS... and if you think all these big organisations don't talk to each other on the quiet you're an idiot.


Fine, but why stop there then? We should also deny them bank accounts, welfare, jobs, and the ability to buy stuff, including food, housing, and clothing, unless they are ideologically compliant. I'm sure that will work out just fine. What's that? Riots and civil war? Blood in the streets? Oh don't be silly, all the BadThink people will be confronted by this stuff and just meekly comply .

Stop being racist shitbags, and stop going after employees. I cannot go to the DMV, and start cussing out employees, and not expect to get kicked out.

Now, if you want to privatize healthcare, be my guest.

[Rozz]

This topic can be discussed in a better manner. This thread will be closed.