Star Trek shuttle crafts

[the game]

So Star Trek TNG, DS9 and Voyager often use shuttle crafts to carry landing parties to the surface of a planet. But I don't understand how they have the capability to fly within planetary atmospheres or to even get off the ground after they've landed. They don't seem to have any chemical rockets. They only seem to fly on impulse engines or warp engines(which they don't use warp engines within planetary atmosphere). So I don't understand how they can even get off the ground in planetary atmospheres.

[Puupi]

Magic.

/10chars

[Mistame]

Deuterium (hydrogen) fusion reactors, IIRC.

[Easo]

Space magic. When you look at how stupidly big our rockets are to get stuff in orbit, you can compare that to the small engines they have - they would have to be extremely efficient at generating the thrust required. Unless, of course, we go into the anti-gravity stuff, then it gets even better/worse.

[cubby]

Space magic. When you look at how stupidly big our rockets are to get stuff in orbit, you can compare that to the small engines they have - they would have to be extremely efficient at generating the thrust required. Unless, of course, we go into the anti-gravity stuff, then it gets even better/worse.

Not really space magic. You said it yourself. More efficient engines. I would expect that 400 years in the future we'd have anti-matter engines that would provide all the efficient thrust needed. That, or even better tech that we don't know about yet.

[the game]

Not really space magic. You said it yourself. More efficient engines. I would expect that 400 years in the future we'd have anti-matter engines that would provide all the efficient thrust needed. That, or even better tech that we don't know about yet.

Anti-matter is a thing in the warp engines in star trek but warp engines are never used in planetary atmospheres. They don't even use warp engines within star systems unless they absolutely have to.

[cubby]

Anti-matter is a thing in the warp engines in star trek but warp engines are never used in planetary atmospheres. They don't even use warp engines within star systems unless they absolutely have to.

Anti-matter doesn't have to be just limited to warp engines though. Smaller drives could be responsible for the shuttle craft engines. Or something just as efficient/powerful. Breaking planetary gravity with smaller craft hasn't, to me, ever been one of the bigger deals in star trek and other scify shows.

[the game]

Anti-matter doesn't have to be just limited to warp engines though. Smaller drives could be responsible for the shuttle craft engines. Or something just as efficient/powerful. Breaking planetary gravity with smaller craft hasn't, to me, ever been one of the bigger deals in star trek and other scify shows.

it's really not a big deal. It's just interesting figuring out how they work. I wasn't sure if the impulse engines have enough thrust to do it.

[Ivanstone]

So Star Trek TNG, DS9 and Voyager often use shuttle crafts to carry landing parties to the surface of a planet. But I don't understand how they have the capability to fly within planetary atmospheres or to even get off the ground after they've landed. They don't seem to have any chemical rockets. They only seem to fly on impulse engines or warp engines(which they don't use warp engines within planetary atmosphere). So I don't understand how they can even get off the ground in planetary atmospheres.

Its something akin to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet...namic_thruster
Electricity generation is somewhat more potent in Star Trek and its assumed strong enough to be used in most environments.

Furthermore, Star Trek shows technology that can manipulate gravity and inertial forces. Your average starship may only have a weight of 0 in the presence of strong gravity. There are no noticeable inertial forces when a ship accelerates.

Compare the ships to those in the Expanse. "Gravity" only exists because of acceleration or centrifugal force.

[Sunseeker]

Anti-matter is a thing in the warp engines in star trek but warp engines are never used in planetary atmospheres. They don't even use warp engines within star systems unless they absolutely have to.

The "warp core" powers the ship. Shuttles have small warp cores. They are matter-anti-matter reactors, even if they're not using the "warp drive" while in atmosphere, the warp core is still running and providing power to the impulse engines and the warp drive (and everything else).

"Impulse engines" aren't actually stand-alone engines.

[Lynarii]

The bigger question to me is the nature of the thrust.

Even if you have infinite energy, that doesn't solve all the problems. Any form of rocket or thruster ultimately works by throwing matter out one direction to push the vehicle in the opposite direction. Using antimatter as a power source doesn't change this fact, you still have to be expending matter to move. Now, with enough energy you can minimize the amount of matter being expended by accelerating it up to relativistic speeds, but that creates another problem. You're basically blasting the planet you want to leave with super high energy particles, not exactly a very friendly thing to do.

[s_bushido]

Presumably the same technology that lets their anti-grav sleds and stretchers work, just on a larger scale.

They have magic technology that lets them walk around inside starships and space stations without having to use thrust-gravity, so it follows that that same magic technology can be adapted to other uses...like negating/reducing the effects of existing gravitational forces.

[ranzino]

Anti-matter is a thing in the warp engines in star trek but warp engines are never used in planetary atmospheres. They don't even use warp engines within star systems unless they absolutely have to.

oh, they have to or it takes hours to leave ANY star system.
if you can spare the time: vid of our solar sytem in real time at light speed. and yes, it takes those 5h+something to reach Pluto !

[The Butt Witch]

Here's a better question.
With all the super advanced technology in the Star Trek universe, why is combat still performed by unarmored soldiers with phaser rifles, who don't even have personal shields?!

I facepalm every time I see a combat away team fighting Klingons or Romulans, it's just some guys with laser rifles. Where are the power armors, or at least space kevlar or something? Where are the personal shields? They don't even have helmets. Why don't they just teleport the enemy soldiers straight to the brig?

Also considering the teleportation technology, there is no exploration of the subject of just keeping people and materials digitized into the computer, and then rematerialising them at the destination. They would have unlimited space for transport. They could even copy the stuff by materialising it repeatedly, people included.

[horbindr]

the power source for a shuttle is probably a mini fusion reactor and/or a tank of warp plasma from the mothership.

the reason they only need such a small amount of trust is probably because you just don't need that much if you also have access to gravity manipulation and what not, which they also have.

but iirc star trek has all these technical manuals or books out there where they have shematics off ships etc.

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Here's a better question.
With all the super advanced technology in the Star Trek universe, why is combat still performed by unarmored soldiers with phaser rifles, who don't even have personal shields?!

Cause the federation intentionally doesn't want to appear militaristic (to an unrealistic extreme). they are the utopian idea that friendship is magic and it works for them for the most part. same reason they have kids and families on dangerous missions etc.

(ofc the ultimate reason is probably lack of special effects budget and/or plot conveniences).

now i do remember an episode of DS9 where they used holographic soldiers. and the defiant is a full on combat ship (even though they don't call it that), that i think was mass produced eventually?

[The Butt Witch]

the power source for a shuttle is probably a mini fusion reactor and/or a tank of warp plasma from the mothership.

the reason they only need such a small amount of trust is probably because you just don't need that much if you also have access to gravity manipulation and what not, which they also have.

but iirc star trek has all these technical manuals or books out there where they have shematics off ships etc.

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Cause the federation intentionally doesn't want to appear militaristic (to an unrealistic extreme). they are the utopian idea that friendship is magic and it works for them for the most part. same reason they have kids and families on dangerous missions etc.

(ofc the ultimate reason is probably lack of special effects budget and/or plot conveniences).

now i do remember an episode of DS9 where they used holographic soldiers. and the defiant is a full on combat ship (even though they don't call it that), that i think was mass produced eventually?

I guess the Klingons and Romulans don't either...

[Stormspark]

Everything in Star Trek uses artificial gravity and subspace field generators (to reduce the mass of the ship - this is even used to move DS9, watch the pilot). Warp drives are like a super super powerful subspace field generator, but even small craft that aren't capable of warp have low power subspace generators to reduce their mass. So super powerful rockets aren't needed.

[horbindr]

Also considering the teleportation technology, there is no exploration of the subject of just keeping people and materials digitized into the computer, and then rematerialising them at the destination. They would have unlimited space for transport. They could even copy the stuff by materialising it repeatedly, people included.

that shit comes up all the time man. under normal situations, transporter data/buffers deteriorate over time (ofc everytime it's plot relevant they find a loophole, but thats startrek plot 101). they do materialize stuff repeatedly, that's the entire function of (food) replicators, but i think those have a upper limit on the complexity they can create. which is where the transporter buffer comes in, which can do higher complexity stuff but can't store it forever.

though in the later years of the star trek timeline a lot of those problems get fixed and replicator/transporter/holodeck technology gets real crazy.

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I guess the Klingons and Romulans don't either...

klingons wear armor all the time. and romulans probably consider themselves above physical fighting.

but im sure if you look around there are explanations for that stuff. like personal shielding is too advanced so only the borg can really pull it off. medical technology is advanced enough and weapons dangerous enough that armor doesn't do much. maybe shielding just gives off too much of an energy signature and makes you an easy target. who knows.

that shits like 30-40 years old now man, cut em some slack.


oh, another cool example of star trek weapons done right is that sniper rifle with a transporter attached, so it teleports the bullet right in front of the target. but i think that was from one of the modern series.

[s_bushido]

I guess the Klingons and Romulans don't either...

Don't what? Use personal shields? Presumably because even for 24th century technology, the power requirements are prohibitive.

Borg can get away with it because a shit-ton of their body is replaced with technology and filled with an even more shit-ton of nanomachines. Don't need to carry around a large power supply when you can just put it where your liver used to be...

oh, another cool example of star trek weapons done right is that sniper rifle with a transporter attached, so it teleports the bullet right in front of the target. but i think that was from one of the modern series.

Pretty sure that was DS9. Ezri Dax was getting in the mind of some sniper who could take someone out from basically anywhere, iirc. Been a while since I watched that episode so it's pretty hazy.

[Skroe]

So Star Trek TNG, DS9 and Voyager often use shuttle crafts to carry landing parties to the surface of a planet. But I don't understand how they have the capability to fly within planetary atmospheres or to even get off the ground after they've landed. They don't seem to have any chemical rockets. They only seem to fly on impulse engines or warp engines(which they don't use warp engines within planetary atmosphere). So I don't understand how they can even get off the ground in planetary atmospheres.

Within the fiction, they had "micro-fusion" reactors for all their power generation needs. Their atmospheric flight was powered by thrusters powered by those reactors. We would call them fusion engines. "Thrusters" in star trek are basically small fusion rockets and not tied into the warp core, but rather fusion reactors.

As for atmospheric flight, because you have a fictional tiny fusion reactor that can produce enormous amounts of energy through tiny thrusters that you can't see, they can achieve single stage to orbit very easily. Shield geometry (shaping) can (and has) also be adjusted to provide a more aerodynamic shape than the physical lines of the shuttle craft.

For shuttle-like vehicles that engage more regularly in atmospheric flight, such as Voyager's Aeroshuttle and Bajoran ships, a natural aerodynamic shape and flight surfaces can be incorporated.




Full impulse tops out at about 0.25% the speed of light, which is about where a reasonable-to-build fusion engine would top out in the real world.

As for why you don't see much, if any movement and shaking from acceleration and deceleration (both of which would be fatal) , that's because of Star Trek's fictional "Inertial damper".