Bastion is the real hell

[matrix123mko]

Bastion - you lose memory to serve the Archon
Ardenweald - you are robbed from your anima to resurrect the wild gods or make fertilizer
Maldraxxus - you enter the army without rules
Revendreth - you are tortured by vampires until you are relocated

And they say the Maw is bad. Sylvanas is right that she didn't want to die.

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I will laugh hard when we find out that maw is actually quite good place

If it is just a prison, yes, it is the best place.

.....and Shadowlands is prison created by Titans to gather souls.

Titans are younger than Shadowlands.

And then you realize that Sylvanas and Jailer practicaly saved us all.

Could be.

[Nathasil]

First: Bastion is the realm of Order, not light/holy. Light/Holy is currently the one cosmic force missing from the Shadow Lands and will probably be added later on. The loss of individuality IS an aspect of order and found in MANY fictional universes. Nothing is more ordered than a hive -the complete loss of all individuality. So it is very fitting for this covenant to embrace it.

Second: That Tauren is only losing his memory, not his personality. Memories only make up a part of who we are. He is given the chance to start a new "life". You can NEVER start from zero again if you are not willing to go back to "zero". A lot of people wish they could have a second chance. A clean start. This whole talk about eternal torment would be preferable yadda yadda....i know this is the internet and we are all supposed to act and write like 12yo...but i would like to actually spend a second thinking about it for a change.

Let's assume for a second that our actual real life world worked like this: We are all reborn souls who have already lived countless lives and just cannot remember anything from our former travels through this existence.
a) Does this mean your current life/the person you are now is worthless?
b) Is your current existence worth less than the alternative (which would either be not existing at all or eternal torture, depending on your PoV)

If i died and some blue person would give me three choices: a) stop existing completely, b) eternal torture or c) lose all my memories and start a new life ...i'm pretty sure i would pick option c. Because it is definetly superior to option a. And going with b would eventually make me wish for a.

I guess what a lot of people here would prefer is to live forever with all of your memories in a wonderful lush heaven where everybody is nice to each other. Well, this option is not on the menu it seems.

And i actually LIKE that the afterlife is not a wonderful place where everybody wants to go sooner rather than later. I LIKE that Blizzard added this loss to Bastion. It makes the zone and the covenant FAR more interesting than a typical christian heaven depiction.

[cparle87]

So during this preview we learn a lot about how Bastion as an afterlife operates.

When a soul is sent there it loses it’s form.
That form is then reshaped into a Kyrian.
The memories of the old soul are torn out. Family, friends, enemies, trauma. Everything that made them who they are is forgotten.
They become a fully fledged Kyrian, their old mind and body gone forever. The Kyrians basically destroy the souls and identities of mortals in order to reproduce.

Case in point, we see a Tauren who has 'ascended' to become a Blue Human.

We then 'help' him by banishing the memories of his comrades in arms, friends and family. Essentially turning him into a blank slate, destroying all that he was and condemning him to an afterlife as somebody he isn't.

Now this would make a fascinating dystopian afterlife. But that's not how it's portrayed. This is portrayed in an entirely positive light and the player is -forced- to help the Kyrians defile the souls of those unfortunate enough to be sent to Bastion. The Kyrians even admit that they'd do the same to the player if their physical form wasn't keeping them tethered to who they really are, and the player character just seems to be fine with that?

This is during the leveling experience, so it's not even covenant-exclusive stuff.

What the fuck Blizzard?

That is indeed very scary. There was this one sci-fi/horror show I remember reading about, might have been Supernatural or Harry Dresden, I dunno. But there were all these messed up hells you could end up in, horrible ways to get butchered, etc. And heaven was no better. There was no God, and angels looked down on everywho wasn't them. Getting into heaven basically amounted to being locked up in a pod and fed an illusory world where you get to think you're happy while your soul is used to give the angels more power like right out of the Matrix.

[Artelia]

Your facepalm avatar is quite appropriate. Everyone who reads your post does it.

Sure...until you will realize that ...

a) my post is troll one and still can be right
b) your avatar and name is worse...because you really think that you are funny with it or something.
c) you trying to take seriously something on mmo-champion.

Who do you think will facepalm more?

[derpkitteh]

i think the process is probably voluntary, not forced.

you can plainly see other souls in the form of azerothian races(the souls in a more indistinct form are races from other worlds that our characters don't have a reference point for, according to danuser in an interview). you don't just immediately become a non-winged kyrian.

[Super Dickmann]

So just to be clear, the afterlife we're trying to restore has the following options:

1. Suffer in bleak nothingness for all eternity to power some bint and her chained up master.
2. Become a ghoul and have your ethereal flesh picked apart before being sacrificed for your weakness.
3. Be tortured by vampires forever.
4. Shred your identity, memory and bonds in holy struggle sessions to become the delivery service for the three above.

Or:

5. Hang around with some faeries in a comfy forest before being restored to life where you could be a panda eating giant carrots.

Is this the first time in WoW where being a night elf is actually good for you?

[Nefarious Tea]

So just to be clear, the afterlife we're trying to restore has the following options:

1. Suffer in bleak nothingness for all eternity to power some bint and her chained up master.
2. Become a ghoul and have your ethereal flesh picked apart before being sacrificed for your weakness.
3. Be tortured by vampires forever.
4. Shred your identity, memory and bonds in holy struggle sessions to become the delivery service for the three above.

Or:

5. Hang around with some faeries in a comfy forest before being restored to life where you could be a panda eating giant carrots.

Is this the first time in WoW where being a night elf is actually good for you?

They need to get something after being shit on for years!

[Nosgoth]

Case in point, we see a Tauren who has 'ascended' to become a Blue Human.
?

So it's consensual.

[The Butt Witch]

Yes but did you look at their plate mog???

Yes, looks like shit. The best mogs are Nercrolords and Venthyr.
Personally, I'm going for Necrolords.

[Nosgoth]

What the fuck Blizzard?

They ascend to become angels essentially, where they can dedicate the rest of their existence to helping others, because they are compassionate.

[chrisisvacant]

I mean, didn't Lucifer say "fuck heaven" because of things like this? Makes sense to me.

[Nosgoth]

People in this thread seem to be forgetting that souls get send there by the Arbiter because it is the right place for them. They want to become Kyrians and then Spirit Healers and Val'kyrs. They aren't forced.

[Niwes]

Morally grey 2.0.

lol. nice.

i see what you did here

[Nosgoth]

Interesting way to perceive what is considered "hell." I've often said to people who believe in heaven from an atheist's point of view that heaven, ahem, is boring. This idea comes from the point of view that conflict is the fabric of our existence. Without pain, there is no pleasure, without sorrow, no joy, etc. Can you imagine living an ETERNAL afterlife in a place where you're happy all the time? I mean, it sounds good with the every day annoyances, jobs, etc. we have to deal with, but is a spiritual eternal happy life what most of us would really enjoy? It's not like heaven has movie theaters, bike riding, roads for cruising, basketball courts, internet, board games, etc. Don't you get annoyed when you're around people who are overly peppy all the time?

How does this tie into your point? The Kyrians appear to lead an overly orderly existence/afterlife. Everything is preordained and predetermined. You have no choice apparently, to keep your mortal memories, and why? Is it to make you a better Kyrian so you can help others make that transition to enlightenment? I can see why you'd view Bastion as hell when it forsakes everything that makes you, you. That includes everything you learned through life, all of your experiences, good or bad, that shaped you into someone worthy of Bastion to begin with, only... to lose it all? Is it worth it? It means the life you lived is meaningless, like a standardized testy you pass to get to the next grade, or get a job. Except when you pass the test of life to become enlightened, you lose EVERYTHING.

I'd pass too.

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That moment when you go "oh shit, those fuckers pulled it off. Motherf--"

Depends on what you get to do in heaven. If you just sit on a cloud, it's probably gonna get boring. If you get to fuck all day, I think I'd give it a go. Of course there is no heaven or hell.

[chrisisvacant]

People in this thread seem to be forgetting that souls get send there by the Arbiter because it is the right place for them. They want to become Kyrians and then Spirit Healers and Val'kyrs. They aren't forced.

Curious but can you show where you find this out? Because I have not been able to see where the exact methodology is behind the Arbiter's choices nor have I seen anywhere that people are presented with a choice.

[owbu]

Isn't that just Rebirth after death as a new person? Sounds like a pretty common not at all hellish believe to me.

Guess I have to see it in game though. Could be Nirvana could be the Borg.

[Beatman]

Well, isn't this how the endless cycle of birth, death, rebirth etc. is supposed to work? Of course it's a bit unsettling, but it's death we are talking about.

[Nosgoth]

The Nature section - you become one with the trees forever stuck and unable to move.

We already know that's not true. The Ancients go there to resurrect. It's a place of death and rebirth.

[derpkitteh]

Curious but can you show where you find this out? Because I have not been able to see where the exact methodology is behind the Arbiter's choices nor have I seen anywhere that people are presented with a choice.

it's not that they specifically want to be kyrian.

they're souls of nobility that always strived to be something greater than they were, working in service of others. that's the criteria for a soul being sent to bastion.

most souls that go there are selfless, and wish to serve other people to the fullest extent. so becoming a full kyrian is the extreme end point of that. we don't know exactly what happens to a soul if they don't want to go through with the training, expunging their past and such. but i assume we'll learn about that in the expansion.

[Nosgoth]

it's not that they specifically want to be kyrian.

they're souls of nobility that always strived to be something greater than they were, working in service of others. that's the criteria for a soul being sent to bastion.

most souls that go there are selfless, and wish to serve other people to the fullest extent. so becoming a full kyrian is the extreme end point of that. we don't know exactly what happens to a soul if they don't want to go through with the training, expunging their past and such. but i assume we'll learn about that in the expansion.

I mean I doubt that the Kyrians would force them. That would contradict their selfless nature.