I still don't understand how we beat the legion

[alessi]

Well I guess with a

1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 3 2 1 1 1, CR me please, a 1 1 1 2 3 1 1 2.....

sure, that we be exactly that way)

[Aeula]

Where Sargeras did all important stuff... Thats so vague.

Sargeras is the legion. Whats his homeworld?

He had Aggramar and the very being he used to make his minions immortal stored away on Argus. That's why Argus is the legion's homeworld.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Argus

It has since been twisted by demonic, chaotic energies and became the stronghold and homeworld of the Burning Legion.

[Nefastus]

So you're telling me that a single spaceship, much smaller than the exodar, capable of housing at most a couple thousand soldiers just went onto the Legion home planet filled with milions of blood thirsty demons and we just kicked their asses?

- An army that numbers in the millions;
- It is comprised of immortal creatures who can only die in a very specific dimension of the Cosmos;
- Controls the most advanced technology in the Cosmos and can use the souls of their fallen enemies to vastly empower their war machines;
- Is led by a myriad of powerful individuals - Sargeras, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Gul'dan, Mannoroth, Kazzak, Mephistroth, Tichondrius, Talgath etc...
- Transends realities;
- Controls at the very least 10.000 planets scattered across the Cosmos;
- Can assimiliate ANY mortal race, as any mortal can be turned into a Demon if they are infused with a large amount of Fel.

How was the argussian reach even alive? Isn't it like 25,000 years since Velen fled Argus? How in the world are they still a thing? Is the legion really that incompotent or is it just bad story telling? Hell I even heard the army of the light was on their last legs.

How?

Very good points. Logic says that the legion couldnt be defeated, at least not right now and like that. Your arguments make it obvious that their defeat was impossible.

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Oh, don't play Diablo 3 you'll be so confused...

Boss Demon 1: My army will crush you
Boss Demon 1: You thought that was my army? No-no-no... it was just a forward scouting division
Boss Demon 1: So you defeated my entire army? My lieutenant will make a short work of you
Boss Demon 1: If you want something done right...
Boss Demon 2: So you killed that moron Boss Demon 1? Here, take this cookie. This is my army btw, it will crush you.
... ad nauseum

The general theme is: our enemies are morons. Even a 5yo could beat Legion.

Please, don't remember me of Diablo 3. That was a mess. The story was something a 5 years old would come with. They pretty much disgraced the franchise. Instead of making a prequel they decided to just make a mess that only managed to tarnish the image of the previous 2 games (diablo 2 expac was actually the one that started to make things muddy).

[bloodykiller86]

you have to pay attention to the story more. One we were helping the Army of the light battle against the legion on their home world of operations and where they were reborn whenever they "died", we defeated them because by killing Argus, they can actually die.

[czarek]

Umm for me legion isnt defeated tbh. They are more like cuted out to reach our world. Briges are burned but there is always posibility to build up new bridge ?!

[Nefastus]

Last I heard they explained that Chris Metzen was the mind behind all the currently ongoing storylines up to and including next expansion Shadowlands.

Plus he is the one that is screwing the lore since TBC. Remember it was him the one responsible for the awful draenei/eredar/sargeras retcon and all the stupid nonsense of spaceships and stuff like that. He probably was already tired of warcraft during the development of vanilla wow if not before.

[lllBlackSunlll]

The guy, who retired in 2016, and before that was in charge of Overwatch development? Ok.

In an interview he gave soon after BFA release was that the last thing he wrote was Anduin creating the mass rez bubble from the cinematic. Everything before then was touched by Metzen.

[Makabreska]

same thing with azshara. and basicaly every vilain in this game .... that's how blizz vilains are: cocky, retarded and dumb as rocks. I mean, azshara did the same mistake every other bad guy did before her. she was cocky and full of herself with "us" AFTER we defeated the legion. how stupid is she? did she have no clue who we are and what we did in the past? She could wipe us all but she decided to play games with us to show off how baddas she was, giving us the opportunity to fuck her in the ass. it's already seen and done. blizz don't know any other way to write their bad guy....

Well, Azshara is a special type of ego dude. Also, everything went pretty much according to her plans. We were used to free N'zoth. Only thing she didn't anticipate was us beating her.

[sam86]

Even if it has not 100% clearly without the shadow of a doubt been said, logic dictates that if Archimonde was still alive in Legion we would have faced him. Sargeras was forced to play his final cards there after Kil'jaeden failed. Hence why we faced Aggramar and even the World Soul of Argus that was extremly important to the Burning Legions future. If Archimonde had still been alive at this point he would have been in our way to Argus.

not really
Also in Legion we have clearly multiple demons who got killed in TN yet still survived it, it was obviously stated that they were too weak to fight us unless get serious focus buff
at least the part that if a demon dies in TN and get rez, he get rez very weak was clear
So Archimonde is in either 2 status
1- he died in TN and is forever gone like what was stated in canon lore (including legion lore)
2- he died in TN, is getting rezz like many other demons (also in legion lore) but since no one boosted his rez it will take him long time to get back to full power
remember Mannaroth didn't die in TN yet no sight of him in Legion, they didn't use him, or maybe he was alive and a random orc had an axe and wanted to test it and as usual 1 shot him

[bullseyed]

He had Aggramar and the very being he used to make his minions immortal stored away on Argus. That's why Argus is the legion's homeworld.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Argus

The thing is the legion didn't really have a homeworld. Many races were infused with fel energy by Sargeras, from different planets.

Sargeras is a titan, modeled after Satan being a fallen angel. Argus was just an early planet with people he infused with fel energy, making them into "demons" that also happened to be smart enough to make them into leaders.

Titans (arcane/order) made watchers while Sargeras (fel/chaos) made demons. Either are good or evil, or right or wrong. They just disagree on how to stop the void.

[Combatbutler]

We beat the legion through the rule of cool, there is absolutely nothing more to it.

[Jastall]

Just FYI - At this point, nothing is stopping an off-world demon armada from returning to Argus, find it destroyed, then head to seat of the pantheon to release Sargeras. Ilidan probably starved to death or hanged himself from boredom by now and chilling on the throne in his eternal demon soul form..

I'm pretty sure the Seat is over Azeroth now, not Argus. You can see it as a red light in the sky most of the time. And we know that demons have a helluva time getting to Azeroth in the first place if they aren't summoned, so we're safe for now.

The jury's still out on how well Illidan is doing. Maybe Eonar can make food for him, or being the Mage to end all Mages Aman'thul can conjure entire banquets as well as smoking hot concubines to distract him a bit.

[Makabreska]

Just FYI - At this point, nothing is stopping an off-world demon armada from returning to Argus, find it destroyed, then head to seat of the pantheon to release Sargeras. Ilidan probably starved to death or hanged himself from boredom by now and chilling on the throne in his eternal demon soul form..

Well, not counting the obvious power struggle that's most likely shaking BL, would demons in general actually want to bring Sarg back? That guy was a tyran (and their previous jailer and killer), holding all of them by the neck and ordering to do as he says. Even when considering BL members natural aptitude for chaos and destruction, I don't think many of them enjoyed being basically slaves to Sarg.

[Felrane]

Well, not counting the obvious power struggle that's most likely shaking BL, would demons in general actually want to bring Sarg back? That guy was a tyran, gripping all of them by the neck and ordering to do as he says. Even when considering BL members natural aptitude for chaos and destruction, I don't think many of them enjoy being basically slaves to Sarg.

Ya im hopeing he doesn't come back for awhile and blizzard can build up new Fel Lords that were the actual rulers before Sarg came into the picture. Most of the Demons in the Legion are not even natural ones. I am hoping Blizzard build up all sorts of new deitys/lords for Arcane/Fel/Death/Life/Light/Void that are coming out of the woodwork to replace the huge power vacuum the Legion left behind. Kind of like what they are doing with the Arbiter/Jailor.

[Shelly]

It was never stated the Legion could not bring in another fleet of ships and turn Dalaran into molten slag. So it raises the question why didn't they? That is some bad writing right there! They had enough resources to deal a massive and decisive blow against the defenders, especially after Edgelord Illidan opened the highway between Argus and Azeroth.

Us clawing our way up from there with the help of a properly done Army of the Light would have been more engaging than going Rambo yet again and roflstomping the supposedly endless Legion on their home turf.

They do bring another fleet. Dalaran comes under attack multiple times.

First above Kara where in the teleport they detonate an arcane blast that wipes out the fleet attacking.

Then there's the mage mount quest where Dalaran is under attack and you charge arcane turrets to fight it off.

Then there's the invasion points happening in the various zones where we are being proactive in the defense of Dalaran.

[Aeula]

The thing is the legion didn't really have a homeworld. Many races were infused with fel energy by Sargeras, from different planets.

Sargeras is a titan, modeled after Satan being a fallen angel. Argus was just an early planet with people he infused with fel energy, making them into "demons" that also happened to be smart enough to make them into leaders.

Titans (arcane/order) made watchers while Sargeras (fel/chaos) made demons. Either are good or evil, or right or wrong. They just disagree on how to stop the void.

It says right there that it's a homeworld.

[faithbane]

I'm pretty sure the Seat is over Azeroth now, not Argus. You can see it as a red light in the sky most of the time. And we know that demons have a helluva time getting to Azeroth in the first place if they aren't summoned, so we're safe for now.

The jury's still out on how well Illidan is doing. Maybe Eonar can make food for him, or being the Mage to end all Mages Aman'thul can conjure entire banquets as well as smoking hot concubines to distract him a bit.

Based on the antorus ending cinematic, the red dot is the last glimpse/scar of the portal between azeroth and argus. You can see the portal closing and turning into the red dot but right before that, Sargeras gets sucked through it to the other side. Its at the very end of the cinematic. It would be totally weird for ilidan to just decide to chill up on a platform if it was hovering over azeroth :P

Now based on another reply to my comment tho.. if the demons actually would like to release Sargeras is another story

[Timester]

Lets talk about the real issue here. The demons are finally free, after of tens of thousands of years being Sargeras' slaves (yes, they were his slave army). Considering their chaotic nature, the opposite of Sargeras' orderly nature, do the demons really want him back?

Sargeras is the Legion and the Legion is Sargeras, it begins and ends with him. And right now, the Legion is jailed, no demon will even care releasing him.

[ConstantinetheGreat]

As with all complaints about the lore, it’s a direct result of us having spent too long with this story. There’s really no way to avoid it at this point. They’re either going to tear down the things you love to re-hash or re-direct them a la Illidan, Alleria, Sylvanas, or they’re going to come so far out of left field as to make us feel completely out of he vein of the story, a la the entire Shadowlands concept.

Legion was the culmination of a steady build up of us becoming god killers. It was packed to the gills with fan service. I was the Highlord of the Silver Hand wielding the Ashbringer taking down Kil Jaedan side to side with Illidan, Alleria and Turalyon for crying out loud. I go from that to running dirty work against the Horde for Matthias Shaw? Yeah no. My Paladin is enjoying his well earned retirement in Northshire while new scrubs get to do the new stuff. It makes much more sense that way.

[Cena]

The guy, who retired in 2016, and before that was in charge of Overwatch development? Ok.

What does 2016 have anything to do with him? The story development team plans out expansion stories years before they are announced.

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Metzen retired in 2016 and ceased involvement in the story and lore crafting altogether. WoD was very obviously his swan song as Thrall practically faded into the background at the same time.

Retired in 2016. Ya no duh. The expansion stories are planned years in advance. His retirement had nothing to do with it.