The Cash Shop is about to get more crowded

[szandos]

As long as there's enough to do and get in-game, then I'm perfectly fine with it. I still got loads of sets, mounts etc to collect.

[Aucald]

The problem is if they dont hire new artists or make raid gear worse to make people want to buy cash shop items. Artists have a set amount of work they can do.

Yes, I would say that a uniform degradation of in-game gear quality (in terms of appearance) coupled with the appearance of for-cash gear with excellent appearance in the shop would be bad. But given that thus far the cash shop has only had a few xmog options in it, such as the three helms, I don't think we've yet seen a precedent for that.

[Lolites]

This means those mounts (or equivalents) can never be put into the game, which leaves us with 2000 horses and some bad re-color variants for achievements and

be fair, theres a lot of unique mounts added in bfa obtainable via gameplay only - crab (which is BEST MOUNT EVER imo ), those mecha mounts from mechagon, mecha parrot from pathfinder, rays from nazjatar... hell 8.2 had more unique model mounts than shop during whole BFA (and mostly better looking imo)
(btw, i wouldnt count pirate ship as shop mount as it was literaly a gift for subscribers)

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lol all those people on the front page with "i don't care/it's just cosmetics/i love MTX"

Brainwashing is complete...

Enjoy looking like a turd (see current "sets" in BFA raids) without paying. Visual progression IS/SHOULD BE part of the gear progression and game mechanics. Especially in a subscription based game. You giving it up and keep repeating the slogans conjured by corporations.

It's just cosmetics. Well, raid decorations are just cosmetics too. How about next time you get an empty white room with a black cube in the middle of it. If you pay extra $15 the room turns in to a lair and for another extra $10 the cube turns into a dragon. Welcome to the future, have fun

people say thats going to happen since wrath, and surprise it havent...
BUT if it will happen sure, ppl will get mad, but since we didnt get a step closer in over a decade, i doubt it will be in my lifetime, so i sure wont get mad about it now, bcs theres 0.001% chance it MIGHT happen...

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Yeah, the 111100000th horse mount is a fair competitor to the pirate ship or other store mounts. The 324242342424th cricket pet is almost as unique as the Yeti.

I almost can't pick from all the horse mounts and all the cricket pets. What am I gonna do with my life...

be fair, 8.2 had more new model mounts (and better imo) than shop during whole bfa (and apart from that white dragon they are all fucking ugly...)

[JoeGood]

i dont get why people complain over stuff in a shop.. - dont buy them ? - and there is nothing unique in something you just can buy in a shop like that anyways..

[Beefhammer]

The amount of people okay with this is disheartening.

OK with what? A very slow trickle of pets and mounts added to shop over the span of 11 years? The only armor added were three helmets. I have heard that tier sets were coming, raid gear would be purchasable, PvP gear, and so on since 2008. I'm still waiting. This all a bunch of chicken littling.

[Trumpcat]

SWTOR is a subscription MMO with a free to play extremely limited option, the cash shop and loot boxes constitute a far bigger pool of all types of items, than the rest of the game, including player races and quality of life items.

FF like already mentioned is a sub based mmo with a huge cash shop.

Every other online game has bigger cash shops than any Blizzard game. But we must be especially hateful towards WoW and even hate about things that are pure speculation. Because, you know, Blizzard are better than any of them, so it gives the best kicks hating at it.

[Raelbo]

Doesn't matter, if it takes away from the base game we already pay for that isn't reasonable.

I cannot see how it would possibly take anything away from the base game we already pay for.

If they start investing more art resources into micro-transactions that does impact us.

That is false logic. The number of art resources invested into micro-transactions has zero affect on us. What does affect us is the number of art resources invested into the game. You cannot logically infer that the former necessarily negatively affects the latter, and frankly, I don't believe there is any rational basis for believing it would. That's more in the realm of tinfoil hat thinking.

I am pretty certain that the return on cost for shop items is significantly higher than that of the actual game. Were that not the case, it would not make any business sense for Blizzard to bother with a shop. Therefore, it is illogical to conclude that the game is subsidising the shop. It's actually the other way around. Having a shop means the game generates more money, which means it can justify a bigger budget and hire more staff. And because the shop items uses less resources for their revenue, the nett result is more art resources available for the main game.

People need to quit with this mindless paranoia about Blizzard putting all their resources into the shop instead of the game on the basis that they're greedy. It's utterly nonsensical - unless you're assuming that they're completely incompetent at business. Because here's the thing: The shop relies on the success of the game to be profitable. The shop customer base is subscribers. If the game loses subs, the shop loses customers. So sacrificing the quality of the game in order to pump more effort into the shop would be amateurishly idiotic.

This is why I personally am in favour of the shop. Because it gives Blizzard added incentive to invest in keeping their game great. It really is that simple.

[Beefhammer]

Oh, but it DOES have significant impact on my gameplay. Its the same with mounts.
If you want customers to buy mounts, they need to be special and be made very well. Unique.
This means those mounts (or equivalents) can never be put into the game, which leaves us with 2000 horses and some bad re-color variants for achievements and reputations. This in turn dramatically reduces the incentive to do said content, which in itself already is a hugely negative effect on gameplay. Its the same for transmog items.
E.g. do you believe the mage tower would have been such a huge success if the only think you got from there was a color variant for your base weapon skin and the actual mage tower skin would have been on the shop for 17,99?

Or in other words: If the shop items are better than ingame rewards, why bother with ingame rewards at all (as a player)?

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Its really terrible. I remember the good old times when the community made a stand when TRH was announced first

So here is the counter to your ridiculous strawman about mounts, https://www.warcraftmounts.com/gallery.php.

As you can see there are currently dozens of different types of mounts in game with close to 800 total mounts and only 14 being available on the shop. As you can see there are way more non horse types and way more horse variants than "bad re-colors" as you claim. Many of those in game mounts are highly detailed and have effects just like some of the store mounts. But go on and tell us how all the in game rewards are worse.

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I cannot see how it would possibly take anything away from the base game we already pay for.



That is false logic. The number of art resources invested into micro-transactions has zero affect on us. What does affect us is the number of art resources invested into the game. You cannot logically infer that the former necessarily negatively affects the latter, and frankly, I don't believe there is any rational basis for believing it would. That's more in the realm of tinfoil hat thinking.

I am pretty certain that the return on cost for shop items is significantly higher than that of the actual game. Were that not the case, it would not make any business sense for Blizzard to bother with a shop. Therefore, it is illogical to conclude that the game is subsidising the shop. It's actually the other way around. Having a shop means the game generates more money, which means it can justify a bigger budget and hire more staff. And because the shop items uses less resources for their revenue, the nett result is more art resources available for the main game.

People need to quit with this mindless paranoia about Blizzard putting all their resources into the shop instead of the game on the basis that they're greedy. It's utterly nonsensical - unless you're assuming that they're completely incompetent at business. Because here's the thing: The shop relies on the success of the game to be profitable. The shop customer base is subscribers. If the game loses subs, the shop loses customers. So sacrificing the quality of the game in order to pump more effort into the shop would be amateurishly idiotic.

This is why I personally am in favour of the shop. Because it gives Blizzard added incentive to invest in keeping their game great. It really is that simple.

Classic people putting feels over logic.

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SWTOR is a subscription MMO with a free to play extremely limited option, the cash shop and loot boxes constitute a far bigger pool of all types of items, than the rest of the game, including player races and quality of life items.

FF like already mentioned is a sub based mmo with a huge cash shop.

Every other online game has bigger cash shops than any Blizzard game. But we must be especially hateful towards WoW and even hate about things that are pure speculation. Because, you know, Blizzard are better than any of them, so it gives the best kicks hating at it.

I don't recall people crying fouls at SE over the FF14 cash shop.

[monkaW]

Remember when they sold cosmetic head-pieces 10 years ago and everyone lost their minds? They didn't dare try that again... but now somehow it's just a regularly accepted thing out of nowhere, I guess. Shame on anyone who encourages these micro-transactions in a subscription-based WoW. I will recognize your store bought transmogs as your Scarlet Letter; you are forever marked as a shill in my eyes.

I think those people already left, remember there's like 1.7m subs left for BFA and Blizz already said subs no longer the metric to determine the game's success.

People only play this game for pet and mounts these days, even most gaming media said current WOW is for fetus.

[horbindr]

So here is the counter to your ridiculous strawman about mounts, https://www.warcraftmounts.com/gallery.php.

As you can see there are currently dozens of different types of mounts in game with close to 800 total mounts and only 14 being available on the shop. As you can see there are way more non horse types and way more horse variants than "bad re-colors" as you claim. Many of those in game mounts are highly detailed and have effects just like some of the store mounts. But go on and tell us how all the in game rewards are worse.

not really a strawman. the cash shop mounts DO have to be extra special cause else they don't sell for obvious reasons.
the recolors thing is less true today than it was in past expansions though.

but personally my biggest issue with the cash shop mounts is that there is no in game way to get them (unless you count the token, but i'd hardly call that gameplay)

e.g. that crab mount from nazjatar took 3 months to get through gameplay. unique mount, but probably not quite unique enough for store only. i wonder how people would react if they put it on the cash shop as well (ideally only after it was obtainable in game, but those are details).

$15-20 for skipping a 3 month line? fair? best of both worlds? diminishes in game rewards even further? would drastically reduce cash shop revenue?

[Beefhammer]

not really a strawman. the cash shop mounts DO have to be extra special cause else they don't sell for obvious reasons.

but personally my biggest issue with the cash shop mounts is that there is no in game way to get them (unless you count the token, but i'd hardly call that gameplay)

e.g. that crab mount from nazjatar took 3 months to get through gameplay. unique mount, but probably not quite unique enough for store only. i wonder how people would react if they put it on the cash shop as well (ideally only after it was obtainable in game, but those are details).

The strawman is that all the ingame mounts are just bad rose-colored horses. There are over 60 mount types and only 40 or so of almost 800 mounts are horses, of those 40, there are like 20 different variants that are not recolors. The point about the shop would be more valid if there were dozens to hundreds of mounts, butbthere are only 14. There are plenty in-game with just as much detail or effects as the ones in the store.

[horbindr]

The strawman is that all the ingame mounts are just bad rose-colored horses. There are over 60 mount types and only 40 or so of almost 800 mounts are horses, of those 40, there are like 20 different variants that are not recolors. The point about the shop would be more valid if there were dozens to hundreds of mounts, butbthere are only 14. There are plenty in-game with just as much detail or effects as the ones in the store.

eh dunno, just sounds like hyperhole to me. everybody knows there aren't actually 2000 horse mounts in the game.

[Beefhammer]

We already had those helms go on the shop so it’s not like gear is a new thing or something.

No, but there hasn't been any since and there has been plenty of opportunity. So if, as this forum loves to claim, Blizzard didn't care about the game or its players and only cared about money, we would have seen a lot more gear, mounts, and pets.

But here were are, 11 years later and the cash shop has basically added 1.3 mounts per year and slightly more pets, and only 3 cosmetic helmets

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eh dunno, just sounds like hyperhole to me. everybody knows there aren't actually 2000 horse mounts in the game.

Yet similar arguments are used everytime a mount is added. It's always the store gets this fantabulous mount and we get another set of recolors for shitty horses.

[korijenkins]

SWTOR is a subscription MMO with a free to play extremely limited option, the cash shop and loot boxes constitute a far bigger pool of all types of items, than the rest of the game, including player races and quality of life items.

FF like already mentioned is a sub based mmo with a huge cash shop.

Every other online game has bigger cash shops than any Blizzard game. But we must be especially hateful towards WoW and even hate about things that are pure speculation. Because, you know, Blizzard are better than any of them, so it gives the best kicks hating at it.

Enough of the FF strawman. FF is not relevant to the discussion. They can be just as bad as Blizzard for cramming a cash shop in.

Big difference lately is that ppl on FF are pleased with the game, and BFA is a steaming pile. If you want to have a cash shop and fill it with garbage, and have people not complain, the game needs to be good. If not, people are just going to rail on the company for investing in the cash shop instead of the game.

Acceptable model always will be F2P with cash shop. WoW is not that, but that isn't stopping Activision from grubbing it up.

[horbindr]

Yet similar arguments are used everytime a mount is added. It's always the store gets this fantabulous mount and we get another set of recolors for shitty horses.

I mean... it's true...

the only part that isn't really true is that in the past they often added 6 recolors of the same mount for exalted with 1 rep. whereas today it's more like 2-3 recolors only from multiple sources.

and what do you get from reputations? i couldn't even tell you. i think you get some hyena from voldun? one of them birds from zandalar? no clue what nazjatar was. all very forgettable stuff. though admittedly in 8.2 they did a much much better job.

meanwhile the cash shop has color changing mounts, cause who would buy a basic bitch hyena?

it's a very fair argument. both from consumers perspective (all the cool stuff cost money) and form blizzards perspective (it has to be cool else it wouldn't sell).

and the obvious solution is to just make it a time vs money decision, no clue why blizz won't consider that outside the token method which obviously isn't very appreciated.

[Beefhammer]

I mean... it's true...

the only part that isn't really true is that in the past they often added 6 recolors of the same mount for exalted with 1 rep. whereas today it's more like 2-3 recolors only from multiple sources.

and what do you get from reputations? i couldn't even tell you. i think you get some hyena from voldun? one of them birds from zandalar? no clue what nazjatar was. all very forgettable stuff. though admittedly in 8.2 they did a much much better job.

meanwhile the cash shop has color changing mounts, cause who would buy a basic bitch hyena?

it's a very fair argument. both from consumers perspective (all the cool stuff cost money) and form blizzards perspective (it has to be cool else it wouldn't sell).

and the obvious solution is to just make it a time vs money decision, no clue why blizz won't consider that outside the token method which obviously isn't very appreciated.

Yeah we will always get recolors. But we get new models all the time. The amount of new stuff in game vs the amount of new stuff in the shop is so far apart the argument against it is ridiculous. Yes they could just add it all to the game, but as the game gets older and less people play, and the more resource costs go up, adding a mount or two a year is fine to generate additional revenues.

I could understand if we were getting say new mount types each expansion, 1 for raids, 2-4 for PvP, 4 for reps, 1 for achievement/secret hunting, and 10-12 shop exclusives, then there could be a legitimate argument. Because obviously at that point they are making a lot of stuff exclusively to be sold on the shop. The case is, artists use their down time to make something the like and it is added sparingly.

[bullseyed]

If you don’t want to pay for them, don’t. It doesn’t change your play experience in any way.

False. There is a subscription being paid, for access to ALL content developed with subscription dollars.

[zolfare]

Pre-order bonuses are not new in WoW. RAF-exclusive rewards are not new in WoW. You're going nuts over nothing.

I don't think he was going nuts. I think he is looking at it poorly but interested to see what the outcome of it will be.

[horbindr]

Yeah we will always get recolors. But we get new models all the time. The amount of new stuff in game vs the amount of new stuff in the shop is so far apart the argument against it is ridiculous. Yes they could just add it all to the game, but as the game gets older and less people play, and the more resource costs go up, adding a mount or two a year is fine to generate additional revenues.

I could understand if we were getting say new mount types each expansion, 1 for raids, 2-4 for PvP, 4 for reps, 1 for achievement/secret hunting, and 10-12 shop exclusives, then there could be a legitimate argument. Because obviously at that point they are making a lot of stuff exclusively to be sold on the shop. The case is, artists use their down time to make something the like and it is added sparingly.

yes, the stuff we get in game vs shop is very far apart. both in quantity AND in quality. guess which one people care about more.

now i'm pragmatic enough to see that the cash shop isn't going anywhere (though cmon, i hope you don't actually believe that "less players, and cost go up" PR talk), but i'm also pragmatic enough to see that adding a ingame grind for these won't actually cost them any income.

[AcidicSyn]

Good, I'd be totally down with buying some cosmetic sets.

I love the shop in FFXIV!

Yeah but where Squares shop remains only cosmetic; do we trust Actiblizz to do the same?

If they do keep it cosmetic only I honestly don't mind at all purely because of the tokens existence. I can farm gold, convert that gold to bnet balance, and use that for whatever cosmetic crap I want from the shop.