The Cash Shop is about to get more crowded

[Jetstream]

I really doubt they’re gonna put tons of xmog on the ship anyway. Anyone remember the hats? The hats that nobody bought?

Why do people like the CE xmog anyway? I think it looks doofy

[Beefhammer]

yes, the stuff we get in game vs shop is very far apart. both in quantity AND in quality. guess which one people care about more.

now i'm pragmatic enough to see that the cash shop isn't going anywhere (though cmon, i hope you don't actually believe that "less players, and cost go up" PR talk), but i'm also pragmatic enough to see that adding a ingame grind for these won't actually cost them any income.

Quality is subjective. All mounts are highly detailed these days, and may of the raid, achievement, PvP, and special mounts have effects like some of the ones in the store. There really is no large gap between quality. There are still vastly more 14 quality mounts in game and almost all of the mounts are in game.

As time goes on and more detail is added to all aspects, longer does it take to make things. Hence it costs more. It isn't PR spin. It's common sense.

[horbindr]

Quality is subjective. All mounts are highly detailed these days, and may of the raid, achievement, PvP, and special mounts have effects like some of the ones in the store. There really is no large gap between quality. There are still vastly more 14 quality mounts in game and almost all of the mounts are in game.

As time goes on and more detail is added to all aspects, longer does it take to make things. Hence it costs more. It isn't PR spin. It's common sense.

varies a lot tbh.

meta mounts have gone down in quality a lot. they are just reskins of reputation mounts now, used to be they were at least reskins of the final boss mount or otherwise reasonably unique. most of the final boss mounts are still pretty good though that's true, even gone up in quality notably last few years. Gladiator mounts are just reskins for the entire expansion though. so it's really hit or miss depending on where you look.

Don't know of any in game mount that has effects on par with cash store effects. the cash shop just straight up has a higher quality ceiling.

and yes, the PR spin stuff is of'course technically true, that's what makes it worth spouting, it's great ammo for people for people to use to shut naysayers up. typically it's halftruths where the audience fill in the gaps themselves and that way end up painting a far prettier picture. sure the cash shop compensates for lost revenue from dwindling subs, but many people then fill in themselves that that revenue is actually required for this or that, and actually justified by something other then greed. not that there is something fundamentally wrong with a company being greedy, but when you hear people spout nonsense like "it feeds the devs" or "it pays for future development" i just roll my eyes.

[bullseyed]

Quality is subjective. All mounts are highly detailed these days,

Ironically the high detail makes most of them low quality, the same problem that is had with gear designs.

Web, mobile, UI, etc design has been trending flat and minimalist for years, while design in WoW is more cluttered and chintzy than flea market knick knack stand.

Sometimes we seem to turn the corner on that, other times not so much. The bear-back bear and raptor mounts in warfront zones was nice, for example.

- - - Updated - - -

when you hear people spout nonsense like "it feeds the devs" or "it pays for future development" i just roll my eyes.

The funny thing is just how dumb people who say things like that have to be.

If the developers actually had employment terms where they had variable compensation based on the sale of MTX mounts, they'd design the entire game around buying the mounts so they could achieve the most income.

[Popastique]

Yeah, the 111100000th horse mount is a fair competitor to the pirate ship or other store mounts. The 324242342424th cricket pet is almost as unique as the Yeti.

I almost can't pick from all the horse mounts and all the cricket pets. What am I gonna do with my life...

Well, that's completely subjective.

[Sansnom]

You should care, because this is shit we shouldn't even have to be paying for in the first place, especially given how there's already a goddamn monthly subscription in the first place.

It really depends on what the monthly subscription is for. It was for game content. Does it included extras? Not all. Name changes. Race changes. Server changes. None of these are covered by the monthly subscription.

If the monthly subscription is being diverted to create these cosmetic items which is then sold on the cash shop. That is a problem.

If the WoW content is still developed by the WoW team and the cash shop is entirely separate, then really they are not doing any wrong. Sure, people will be unhappy about it and would like it to be included as part of the monthly fee. Personally, I prefer they devote 100% of sub fee to content development and keep the cosmetic stuff separate.

It would be like having Amazon Prime, buying something that's marked for "Prime", then having to pay again for shipping that should have already been covered in the purchase. If you're seriously fine with blowing money like that, then just give me your CC number could I have other shit I want to buy. This "I don't care" mentality is why the gaming industry is a fucking dumpster fire right now with companies blatantly abusing Anti-Trust Laws, and a-holes like you just keep rewarding them for this shady bullshit.

Not entirely accurate. If I can make a counter example. You buy a car. The leather seat is not included. You can demand the leather seats be part of the price but they can sell that as an upgrade.

[trapmaster]

I'm fine with it as long NO P2W in cash shop. It may be getting crowded but i would honestly go for bundle with reasonable price.

[Raelbo]

False. There is a subscription being paid, for access to ALL content developed with subscription dollars.

Shop content is paid for by shop dollars. A lot of subscription content is also paid for by shop dollars. So stop whining about how the shop is affecting what you get for your subscription dollars because you're actually getting more.

[Thenatural]

Yes, the game with the least intrusive cash shop in the entire genre by an enormous margin is the bad guy.

[Raelbo]

but personally my biggest issue with the cash shop mounts is that there is no in game way to get them (unless you count the token, but i'd hardly call that gameplay)

So really your biggest issue isn't that there is no in-game way to get them, since, by your own admission there is. It's simply that you arbitrarily object to it. So really, your biggest issue comes down to you being fickle.

It seems to me you simply want to dislike the shop even though there's no real reason for it.

e.g. that crab mount from nazjatar took 3 months to get through gameplay. unique mount, but probably not quite unique enough for store only. i wonder how people would react if they put it on the cash shop as well (ideally only after it was obtainable in game, but those are details).

$15-20 for skipping a 3 month line? fair? best of both worlds? diminishes in game rewards even further? would drastically reduce cash shop revenue?

This would bother me on the basis that it would be a direct exchange of real money for a specific in-game accomplishment. I believe it would both diminish the in-game reward and reduce cash shop revenue. Worst of both worlds.

[horbindr]

So really your biggest issue isn't that there is no in-game way to get them, since, by your own admission there is. It's simply that you arbitrarily object to it. So really, your biggest issue comes down to you being fickle.

It seems to me you simply want to dislike the shop even though there's no real reason for it.



This would bother me on the basis that it would be a direct exchange of real money for a specific in-game accomplishment. I believe it would both diminish the in-game reward and reduce cash shop revenue. Worst of both worlds.

is this where i say: by your own admission you can already trade real money for in game rewards though the token. you are just being ficke. it seems to me you simply want to dislike it even though there is no real reason for it? am i doing it right?

[Raelbo]

is this where i say: by your own admission you can already trade real money for in game rewards though the token.

Only if you're purposely trying to twist and misrepresent what I said....

There is a fundamental difference between directly awarding a player with credit for an in-game accomplishment in exchange for cash, and facilitating the exchange of currency (gold for cash) between players which may assist a player in achieving an in-game accomplishment by means of additional gold transactions with other players or the game.

The former is Pay to win. The latter is a style of Play.

you are just being ficke. it seems to me you simply want to dislike it even though there is no real reason for it? am i doing it right?

How about actually engaging with what I said instead of trying to be a smartass? It really doesn't fool anyone.

[SirCowdog]

Yes, the game with the least intrusive cash shop in the entire genre by an enormous margin is the bad guy.

The fact that there's even a cash shop at all is out of place considering that not only do you have to buy the game/expansion up front, but also pay every single month. For full priced AAA titles, I'd say wow has one of the worst cash shops, beaten only by their partner Activision in Call of Duty and Destiny in the past.

And for every "cosmetic only" reward that's in the cash shop, that's another item that could be the goal of a task within the game to give players more reasons to keep playing.

Honestly, the only thing that should be in the cash shop for a full-priced game are charity cosmetics or pets, where 100% of the profit goes to a good cause and not Blizzard.

[Thenatural]

The fact that there's even a cash shop at all is out of place considering that not only do you have to buy the game/expansion up front, but also pay every single month. For full priced AAA titles, I'd say wow has one of the worst cash shops, beaten only by their partner Activision in Call of Duty and Destiny in the past.

And for every "cosmetic only" reward that's in the cash shop, that's another item that could be the goal of a task within the game to give players more reasons to keep playing.

Honestly, the only thing that should be in the cash shop for a full-priced game are charity cosmetics or pets, where 100% of the profit goes to a good cause and not Blizzard.

Name another MMO without one. We're paying less for our sub than we were in 2004 for objectively more content. Saying WoW has the worst cash shop is delusional and borderline insane. BDO, GW2, FFXIV, Archage, literally everything has a way worse shop then WoW. Even the darling of the WoW haters, FF, has you pay for fucking bank space. THey remove all holiday mounts after 4 days and spam them in the cash shop.

All of WoW character cosmetics are in-game and even the shop mounts are obtainable with in-game gold, along with the subscription itself. Nothing else comes even close to that.

Basically, you're a lunatic propagandist.

[SirCowdog]

Name another MMO without one. We're paying less for our sub than we were in 2004 for objectively more content. Saying WoW has the worst cash shop is delusional and borderline insane. BDO, GW2, FFXIV, Archage, literally everything has a way worse shop then WoW. Even the darling of the WoW haters, FF, has you pay for fucking bank space. THey remove all holiday mounts after 4 days and spam them in the cash shop.

All of WoW character cosmetics are in-game and even the shop mounts are obtainable with in-game gold, along with the subscription itself. Nothing else comes even close to that.

Basically, you're a lunatic propagandist.

Right, because other game companies are doing something anti-consumer, it's ok for Blizzard to do it too? Really? Is THAT your justification?

Sorry, but you had the beginning of some legitimate points, but threw it all away with your first and last sentences.

[Soon-TM]

Shop content is paid for by shop dollars. A lot of subscription content is also paid for by shop dollars. So stop whining about how the shop is affecting what you get for your subscription dollars because you're actually getting more.

Wow, such bold statements. Do you have any data to back them up? Because it honestly looks like you are talking out of your rear. Besides, you seem to imply that all of the money made by WoW is actually being reinvested into the game. Which is an assumption the size of the Sahara desert - unless you have any verifiable source to share ofc

[Raelbo]

Wow, such bold statements. Do you have any data to back them up?

No. It's the application of logic and reason to what is known. It's called hypothesising, and frankly, having considered all the hypotheses out there, this is the only one that actually makes any sense.

Because it honestly looks like you are talking out of your rear.

You're welcome to analyse the logic and challenge me if you like. The fact that you'd rather just resort immediately to insult suggests though that you haven't really put much thought into this, you just want a reason to be mad at greedy Blizz.

Besides, you seem to imply that all of the money made by WoW is actually being reinvested into the game.

Not at all. What I am saying though is that it would make no sense that they'd invest less money made by the shop back into the game than they're spending on the shop.

Simply put, if Blizzard wanted to make bigger profits by scrimping on re-investment, they're going to scrimp just as much even without the shop. Probably even more, since it will harder to meet their shareholder expectations. Pretty much whichever way you cut it, if the game is generating more revenue by virtue of having a shop, they have no reason to spend less on game development, and strong reasons to spend more. Worst case scenario, they're keeping the development budget exactly the same and taking bigger profits.

Try to bear in mind that the whole purpose of a business is take money and use it to make more money. The best way for Blizzard to maximise their profits for this game is to make sure they're always re-investing sufficient money back into the game to ensure that it remains a strong and viable product.

And before you go for the obvious, but primitive, "but why would they spend money on the game when they can make easier profits from the store" rebuttal, it's actually pretty obvious too.

The shop is reliant on the success of the game for its own success. The people who buy from the shop do so because they're subscribed to the game, and the things that are bought from the shop are meaningless outside of an active WoW account.


Blizzard aren't going to stop making WoW content due to the profitability of the shop for exactly the same reason McDonalds isn't going to stop selling burgers due the profitability of soft drinks. Unless of course their master plan is to go out business.

[Soon-TM]

<snip>

It looks like you have no actual data, so instead you wrote a big wall of text with even bigger assumptions (disguised as "logic" or "common sense" lul) to hide it. MMOC "argumentation" at its finest.

Go get actual data before you discuss Blizzard's business plans, until then /shoo

[Darkynhalvos]

Power fantasy died when transmog was introduced.

[SirCowdog]

It looks like you have no actual data, so instead you wrote a big wall of text with even bigger assumptions (disguised as "logic" or "common sense" lul) to hide it. MMOC "argumentation" at its finest.

Go get actual data before you discuss Blizzard's business plans, until then /shoo

I don't agree with Raelbo on this topic. But your response here is not being fair in any sense of the word. Nor did you actually provide anything to support your own point of view. You're just attempting to claim that because there's no super-duper-ultimate-hardcore solid "evidence", that a logical and reasoned response doesn't have any value.

If you want to be taken seriously, or have your opinions valued by others, then you need to provide some form of logical reasoning to back up your own stance. Otherwise you're just spouting off and trying to look superior without actually having anything of worth.


Back on topic:

The shop is reliant on the success of the game for its own success. The people who buy from the shop do so because they're subscribed to the game, and the things that are bought from the shop are meaningless outside of an active WoW account.

This is mostly true. I would only add that the shop is not necessarily reliant on the success of the game, but rather on the perceived value of whales APPEARING successful and superior within the game's community. This is what we see with many predatory phone games. Most notably was the example of "Mariokart Tour", which used relatively advanced bots to masquerade as human players while wearing cash-shop items.

That's sort of a side topic. I simply wanted to point out the context that a cash shop profits is sometimes only loosely tied to the actual reality of the game.