arguments against an automated economy in WoW

[Rinnegan2]

in stead of this, why not up vendor prices and cut the AH alltogether

only the price is set by Blizzard. demand/supply/price fluctuation stays the same.

basically, if done right, nothing changes compared to the current system.

[ey b0ss]

So , like Warframe , yeah why not. Assuming it's going to stop those assholes with ah bots.

[rrayy]

Why the heck would anybody want to have a system like this? I see basically no positive to this system over the existing one, only drawbacks. Very, very heavy drawbacks.

He wants it because the AH prices are too high forcing him to make gold. It's just another thinly veiled "I want everything handed to me" thread.

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only the price is set by Blizzard. demand/supply/price fluctuation stays the same.

basically, if done right, nothing changes compared to the current system.

No it doesn't. There is no cluctuation because supply and demand don't matter. THe current AH is fine. Your idea is dumb.

[cparle87]

Why would I want to waste any further thought on something that has no chance in hell of happening, ever.

Not to mention your extreme hesitation to explain your deep and fantastic plan to the rest of us... that screams that there is fuckery afoot.

Honestly with every post you make in this thread you're making me side with the OP more and more.

He's pitching an idea and asking for ideas why it wouldn't work. And no one in this thread has come up with any ideas, especially not you. You're all just going "Your idea is dumb, we don't need to explain why we think it's dumb, which was the entire point of the thread, we're just going to say it's dumb and so are you for suggesting it."

Imagine he's pitching an idea to build a bridge and asking a bunch of people to punch his design full of holes, explain all the flaws, all the places it wouldn't work. And instead all he gets is "Your bridge idea is stupid and you are stupid for suggesting it." Do you see now how pointless you're being?

[ferosanvilmar]

Hi Champs!

let's say Blizzard sets the gold price for every item in the game. you pick up a stack of herbs and then you go to the auction house and sell this stack for a predetermined x amount of gold. x is set by Blizzard and depends on region-wide demand and supply. kind of like the WoW token works today, the price for every item in WoW fluctuates.

gold is no longer tradeable. the amount you have to tip for a paid service is also set by Blizzard. say you want a blacksmith to craft you a weapon: you will need to trade the mats + set tip to the Blacksmith who can then craft the weapon for you from within the trade window.

with this change, you can no longer sell any item for too little by mistake and you can no longer buy something for too much by mistake. any sort of scam is no longer possible.

everyone who wants something in the game has to actually go out in the world and grind for it.

all of this sounds too good to be true, so there must be something I am missing. this is where you come in. what is your argument AGAINST an automated economy in WoW?

This would take all the fun out of using the AH. Lots of people really enjoy playing the AH market, so why screw that up? Did you make a mistake and sell something for cheap or buy something too high? Well, lesson learned. Or at least it should've been learned. There is no need to change the AH to cater to people that aren't paying attention when they click sell or buy. This kind of change would further drive the game AWAY from being a living, breathing community experience and more toward a single-player experience where nobody else is needed to have fun.

Certain things like PvP are just better when other players are involved. The AH is another. Raiding is another. That list goes on and on. Involving other players in the process/experience is what makes MMOs fun and uniquely different from an RPG for instance.

[Seranthor]

Honestly with every post you make in this thread you're making me side with the OP more and more.

He's pitching an idea and asking for ideas why it wouldn't work. And no one in this thread has come up with any ideas, especially not you. You're all just going "Your idea is dumb, we don't need to explain why we think it's dumb, which was the entire point of the thread, we're just going to say it's dumb and so are you for suggesting it."

Imagine he's pitching an idea to build a bridge and asking a bunch of people to punch his design full of holes, explain all the flaws, all the places it wouldn't work. And instead all he gets is "Your bridge idea is stupid and you are stupid for suggesting it." Do you see now how pointless you're being?

Then side with him, IDGAF. Apparently he's explained his idea to you, because he hasn't bothered to explain it to the rest of us... I'm not going to buy into jackshit until its been explained... until then its a bridge to nowhere.

[Echeyakee]

BDO has this system. The problem with it is that it leads to "optimal" gold farming strategies and sort of crashes parts of the market. For example you used to make trade bundles from materials and sell them to NPCs, but because the price never really changes, it became borderline unprofitable, and in no way comparable to newer grind spots, where you can earn much more money simply bu killing mobs. In terms of a crash, many trade goods are impossible to sell, as there is no profitable way to use them any more, so the AH equivalent is stuck with hundreds of thousands of them at minimal set price.

You also can't trade items or gold (silver) directly in BDO, which pretty much made it a single-player game. You do your grinding or farm some wood, and then sell trash loot to the vendor and put up the rest on marketplace. Then turn around and buy gear/upgrade materials from the same marketplace, never interacting with people. For the last 3 weeks I've played, my only interactions with other people were limited to asking an officer to activate a guild quest, so I can earn more money while doing what I was about to do anyway.

[jellmoo]

I'm at a loss here. By this point you have 4 pages of people telling you that this is a bad idea and why. You haven't explained your idea, why you think it's a good idea, what your idea is supposed to fix, or how it could possibly be implemented.

What are we supposed to be discussing here?

[Seranthor]

I'm at a loss here. By this point you have 4 pages of people telling you that this is a bad idea and why. You haven't explained your idea, why you think it's a good idea, what your idea is supposed to fix, or how it could possibly be implemented.

What are we supposed to be discussing here?

We are supposed to be attacking the folks that dont buy into his 'bridge to nowhere' apparently.

[SoulSoBreezy]

with this change, you can no longer sell any item for too little by mistake and you can no longer buy something for too much by mistake. any sort of scam is no longer possible.

If this is all you're trying to solve, taking the semblance of a player economy away from the game will hurt more than it helps, IMO.

If anything this would cause weird behavior among players - if we can't trade gold then another commodity would take over as trading currency - herbs, ore and other resources for example. How much for services like carries or mythic mounts? 700 stacks of ore? That'll be fun to transact.

There's no perfect system but the freedom of trade is the best we could ask for - checks for large transactions are all you need, the rest is up to you to make sure you're not being screwed.

[Rinnegan2]

Honestly with every post you make in this thread you're making me side with the OP more and more.

He's pitching an idea and asking for ideas why it wouldn't work. And no one in this thread has come up with any ideas, especially not you. You're all just going "Your idea is dumb, we don't need to explain why we think it's dumb, which was the entire point of the thread, we're just going to say it's dumb and so are you for suggesting it."

Imagine he's pitching an idea to build a bridge and asking a bunch of people to punch his design full of holes, explain all the flaws, all the places it wouldn't work. And instead all he gets is "Your bridge idea is stupid and you are stupid for suggesting it." Do you see now how pointless you're being?

absolutely blown away by this post. I would never have been able to describe the ludicrousness of this situation in such an eloquent and subtle way.
even if you factually disagree with me, just know that you are hella smart and that I'm incredibly jealous of your literacy.

[cparle87]

Then side with him, IDGAF. Apparently he's explained his idea to you, because he hasn't bothered to explain it to the rest of us... I'm not going to buy into jackshit until its been explained... until then its a bridge to nowhere.

You're missing the point, bro. He pitched his idea, and asked for reasons why it won't/wouldn't work. And no one has given him any, they've just told him it won't. Isn't there a trope for that, like a mathematician's answer or such?

OP: Give me a reason why this won't work.
You guys: It won't work.
OP: That's not what I was asked, tell me why.
You guys: You're stupid, we told you it won't work /thread already.

[Rinnegan2]

BDO has this system. The problem with it is that it leads to "optimal" gold farming strategies and sort of crashes parts of the market. For example you used to make trade bundles from materials and sell them to NPCs, but because the price never really changes, it became borderline unprofitable, and in no way comparable to newer grind spots, where you can earn much more money simply bu killing mobs. In terms of a crash, many trade goods are impossible to sell, as there is no profitable way to use them any more, so the AH equivalent is stuck with hundreds of thousands of them at minimal set price.

very interesting. thank you for your input. this is a tough problem. I wonder if there could be a solution. Blizzard would probably have to adjust profession design in some way but I can't think of anything just yet. this whole idea of trying to simulate an unregulated market intrigues me. maybe, just maybe, you could write an algorithm that takes everything into account at all times and somehow always finds the price that an item would have sold at in a non-automated economy. I don't know how to get there but I think the WoW economy is predictable enough to find a mathematical solution.

[crakerjack]

I could get behind something like this. I for one have never had any interest in AH outside of buying some on a whim. As for playing the AH, I'd greatly appreciate something like this because it wouldn't cause the user to think. Simply sell stuff and let the system do the rest. Don't have to worry about undercutters or other crap associated with the AH. I'd totally back something like this. The AH is the only reasonable way to make money outside of selling boosts/carries.

[Rinnegan2]

There's no perfect system but the freedom of trade is the best we could ask for - checks for large transactions are all you need, the rest is up to you to make sure you're not being screwed.

true. implementing all of what I'm proposing is probably way more of an investment than having staff in place to check for large transactions.

[Great Destiny Man]

You're missing the point, bro. He pitched his idea, and asked for reasons why it won't/wouldn't work. And no one has given him any, they've just told him it won't. Isn't there a trope for that, like a mathematician's answer or such?

OP: Give me a reason why this won't work.
You guys: It won't work.
OP: That's not what I was asked, tell me why.
You guys: You're stupid, we told you it won't work /thread already.

The absence of meaningful benefits is a legitimate argument against a proposed change.

[Seranthor]

You're missing the point, bro. He pitched his idea, and asked for reasons why it won't/wouldn't work. And no one has given him any, they've just told him it won't. Isn't there a trope for that, like a mathematician's answer or such?

OP: Give me a reason why this won't work.
You guys: It won't work.
OP: That's not what I was asked, tell me why.
You guys: You're stupid, we told you it won't work /thread already.

Missing the 'point'? He pitched shit, and has refused to give reasons or specifics. Until which time he does those things its a shit idea. It would be like someone coming to your house and saying he's going to burn it down, and give you a new house... no specifics... just destruction.


Until he answers at the bare minimum...

1) why do you want this change?
2) what benefit to the players will there be?
3) what benefit to Blizzard will there be?

Without answers to the above questions no reasoned discussion can be had. If you are too dense to understand that then dont bother answering and just move on.

[Polarthief]

let's say Blizzard sets the gold price for every item in the game. you pick up a stack of herbs and then you go to the auction house and sell this stack for a predetermined x amount of gold. x is set by Blizzard and depends on region-wide demand and supply. kind of like the WoW token works today, the price for every item in WoW fluctuates but the base value is set by Blizzard.

... Why?

gold and items are no longer tradeable.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHYYYYYYYYYY???

the amount you have to tip for a paid service is also set by Blizzard say you want a blacksmith to craft you a weapon: you will need to trade the mats + a set tip to the Blacksmith, who can then craft the weapon for you from within the trade window.

BUT. WHY? That's not a "tip", that's called a forced fee.

with this change, you can no longer sell any item for too little by mistake and you can no longer buy something for too much by mistake. any sort of scam is no longer possible.

If you're someone dumb enough to do this, you shouldn't use the AH. Instead of rushing to throw/buy shit in the AH, take more than half a second to read the amount you posted/the amount the item is asking for. Also don't post/buy early in the morning or late at night when you may be tired.

I've played this game for 15 years and never once had this issue that I hear too many people complain about. Bottom line is you fucked up and didn't bother to read it.

I assume this is why you're making this "suggestion"? Did you get screwed over because you rushed to post something?

everyone who wants something in the game has to actually go out in the world and grind for it.

In what way? Also notice how you say the word "grind" like it's a good thing. You do know grinding is a BAD thing, right?

all of this sounds too good to be true, so there must be something I am missing.

Uh no, all of this sounds awful and would make the economy stale, boring, and remove the ability to give money/items to your friends, especially new players starting out.

This has to be a troll post, it's too awful to be thought of as "good" by anyone.

[Seranthor]

... Why?



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHYYYYYYYYYY???



BUT. WHY? That's not a "tip", that's called a forced fee.



If you're someone dumb enough to do this, you shouldn't use the AH. Instead of rushing to throw/buy shit in the AH, take more than half a second to read the amount you posted/the amount the item is asking for. Also don't post/buy early in the morning or late at night when you may be tired.

I've played this game for 15 years and never once had this issue that I hear too many people complain about. Bottom line is you fucked up and didn't bother to read it.

I assume this is why you're making this "suggestion"? Did you get screwed over because you rushed to post something?



In what way? Also notice how you say the word "grind" like it's a good thing. You do know grinding is a BAD thing, right?



Uh no, all of this sounds awful and would make the economy stale, boring, and remove the ability to give money/items to your friends, especially new players starting out.

This has to be a troll post, it's too awful to be thought of as "good" by anyone.

I can not disagree with a single word in your post.

[Polarthief]

You're missing the point, bro. He pitched his idea, and asked for reasons why it won't/wouldn't work. And no one has given him any, they've just told him it won't. Isn't there a trope for that, like a mathematician's answer or such?

OP: Give me a reason why this won't work.
You guys: It won't work.
OP: That's not what I was asked, tell me why.
You guys: You're stupid, we told you it won't work /thread already.

It won't work because trading is the backbone of an economy. Imagine if in real life it was suddenly illegal to give your friend a gift (money or something they wanted) because of an "automated economy" like this. Can't even give them a birthday card because "trading is forbidden".

As for the other stuff, it makes the market boring and static. OP has listed 0 good reasons as to what these changes would bring besides the inability to not post too low/buy too high on accident, which is a USER ERROR (again, 15 years of playing this game and many other games, NEVER ONCE DID I HAVE THESE ISSUES).

Seriously, give me good reasons as to why this is a positive change. What does my inability to use mail or trade people anything get me? It gets me a fix to a user error that I never had. That sounds like an awful deal.

Edit: Forgot that this also removes GBanks because it has money and items in it. Also removes the ability to throw your fellow raider a Vantus Rune or tome. Removes the ability for guilds to craft stuff for one another. Again, how is this a good idea???