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  1. #1

    I just re-read Road of Damnation again..

    Fucking 10/10 stuff. Kel'thuzad's arrogance, him contemplating rebellion against the Lich King, followed by him whimpering in stark terror, realizing he had no choice other than serve his master, once again followed by him kneeling in submission to his dark master.

    Also, Ner'zhul throwing some neat quotes that are worthy of making a signature out of them.

    "Let this be your first lesson. I have no love for you or your people. On the contrary, I intend to scour humanity from this planet, and make no mistake: I have the power to do it."

    "Immortality can be a great boon. It can also be agony the likes of which you have not yet begun to fathom. Defy me, and I will teach you what I have learned of pain. You will beg for death."


    It oozes quality. The quality that we need back in the lore. This is how you develop characters.
    Last edited by WanderingWarrior; 2019-11-30 at 05:15 PM.
    "You will become my force of retribution. Where you tread, doom will follow. Go now, and claim your destiny, Death Knight."

  2. #2
    Yeah, that one was really good for its time. I do hope Blizzard makes more of these short stories in the future. Personally enjoyed the audio narrations that came from Legion the most.


    Blizz giff me nao.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Fucking 10/10 stuff. Kel'thuzad's arrogance, him contemplating rebellion against the Lich King, followed by him whimpering in stark terror, realizing he had no choice other than serve his master, kneeling in submission to his dark master.

    Also, Ner'zhul throwing some neat quotes that are worthy of making a signature out of them.

    "Let this be your first lesson. I have no love for you or your people. On the contrary, I intend to scour humanity from this planet, and make no mistake: I have the power to do it."

    "Immortality can be a great boon. It can also be agony the likes of which you have not yet begun to fathom. Defy me, and I will teach you what I have learned of pain. You will beg for death."


    It oozes quality. The quality that we need back in the lore. This is how you develop characters.

    Evelyn Fredericksen was previously Historian at Blizzard Entertainment's Creative Development team. She worked on developing and maintaining the lore of all Blizzard games, books and various other media, alongside Chris Metzen when he was still part of the company. She also wrote short stories for World of Warcraft. Fredericksen left the company in 2016 to become Game Designer at Six Foot.


    Interesting. I'm sure we can spin a conspiracy theory about how everything went downhill because the people who knew the lore abandoned ship.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Yeah, that one was really good for its time. I do hope Blizzard makes more of these short stories in the future. Personally enjoyed the audio narrations that came from Legion the most.


    Blizz giff me nao.
    Oh yeah, Gul'dan had legit character development. The difference between OG and AU Gul'dan really became solid after that.
    "You will become my force of retribution. Where you tread, doom will follow. Go now, and claim your destiny, Death Knight."

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral MrSaggins's Avatar
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    Scope and scale of setting probably helped. Keeping it all on Azeroth is likely better for building thematic focus.

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    (Even if the Lich King is an alien.)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  6. #6
    How had I not read this one yet? Book and marked.

    I still maintain that their writing hasn't depleted it's just not often well represented in-game.


    This comes to mind as a more recent example. Super awesome characterization for Gul'dan. Never brought up again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Fucking 10/10 stuff. Kel'thuzad's arrogance, him contemplating rebellion against the Lich King, followed by him whimpering in stark terror, realizing he had no choice other than serve his master, once again followed by him kneeling in submission to his dark master.

    Also, Ner'zhul throwing some neat quotes that are worthy of making a signature out of them.

    "Let this be your first lesson. I have no love for you or your people. On the contrary, I intend to scour humanity from this planet, and make no mistake: I have the power to do it."

    "Immortality can be a great boon. It can also be agony the likes of which you have not yet begun to fathom. Defy me, and I will teach you what I have learned of pain. You will beg for death."


    It oozes quality. The quality that we need back in the lore. This is how you develop characters.
    Kel'thuzad and Ner'zhul, the true Lich King, good stuff.

  8. #8
    I have to agree with @Powerogue and @KOUNTERPARTS here, the novellas are genuinely solid. Tomb of Sargeras did wonders for AU Gul'dan in fleshing him out as a separate character, which was sadly wasted in the game proper with how little of a role he ended up having, never getting to properly confront Khadgar (or any orc) again and dying in a raid that didn't really have much to do with him. Ditto, A Good War is the best piece to come out of Battle for Azeroth writing-wise. It's the occasional good stories here and there that really tank the main storyline, which is simultaneously far too large, too hamhanded and yet small in terms of depth to really carry its foundation to a good conclusion.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I have to agree with @Powerogue and @KOUNTERPARTS here, the novellas are genuinely solid. Tomb of Sargeras did wonders for AU Gul'dan in fleshing him out as a separate character, which was sadly wasted in the game proper with how little of a role he ended up having, never getting to properly confront Khadgar (or any orc) again and dying in a raid that didn't really have much to do with him. Ditto, A Good War is the best piece to come out of Battle for Azeroth writing-wise. It's the occasional good stories here and there that really tank the main storyline, which is simultaneously far too large, too hamhanded and yet small in terms of depth to really carry its foundation to a good conclusion.
    I feel like a big part of the reason Gul'dan wasn't fleshed out in-game and thrown away is the same reason that the rest of WoD suffered the same fate. Blizzard was more eager to do away with WoD entirely, than properly finish the story. If it hadn't been so horribly received (and written), we'd see a lot more story beats from WoD that were actually fleshed out and realized, and the expansion would actually take it's time to tell the story. Ogrim's scrapped role in the story, or Yrel's climb from zero to hero being rushed and forced are good examples..
    Last edited by Mellrod; 2019-11-30 at 09:02 PM.
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  10. #10
    Over 9000! Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I have to agree with @Powerogue and @KOUNTERPARTS here, the novellas are genuinely solid. Tomb of Sargeras did wonders for AU Gul'dan in fleshing him out as a separate character, which was sadly wasted in the game proper with how little of a role he ended up having, never getting to properly confront Khadgar (or any orc) again and dying in a raid that didn't really have much to do with him. Ditto, A Good War is the best piece to come out of Battle for Azeroth writing-wise. It's the occasional good stories here and there that really tank the main storyline, which is simultaneously far too large, too hamhanded and yet small in terms of depth to really carry its foundation to a good conclusion.
    if you take away some nonsense from this short-story, that i think only exist because the shit plot overall indeed its a good writing.

    maybe because the short-stories are well, short, they tend to be better, since they don't need much, and i don't remember about reading a bad one,like the one with Garrosh in orgrimmar, him and Grom, Lorthemar story, there is one of the Orc Koak who end up with the pandaren serpent riders, and that shit was gold, sadly they never bring him up to the main lore;

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Interesting. I'm sure we can spin a conspiracy theory about how everything went downhill because the people who knew the lore abandoned ship.
    i still think this is the pivotal point of why it when downhill, but i think its also because they don't like/care of things they didn't write, thats why retcons and mischaracterization happens so often newdays

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellrod View Post
    I feel like a big part of the reason Gul'dan wasn't fleshed out in-game and thrown away is the same reason that the rest of WoD suffered the same fate. Blizzard was more eager to do away with WoD entirely, than properly finish the story. If it hadn't been so horribly received (and written), we'd see a lot more story beats from WoD that were actually fleshed out and realized, and the expansion would actually take it's time to tell the story. Ogrim's scrapped role in the story, or Yrel's climb from zero to hero being rushed and forced are good examples..
    I'll stand by enjoying WoD as a setting and what it did for the orcish clans and even the draenei in part. But it was shot in the foot from the start given how much of a contrivance facilitated it, things like the one Legion across all timelines crap, 'Draenor is free' and so on. What helped tank it was that Blizzard didn't really commit. 'Orc fatigue' meant that the middle portion of Yrel and Orgrim's stories were chopped out when Gorgrond was redesigned and the fact that its gameplay sucked dick and the shenanigans with the training of new teams behind the scenes meant that the entire middle portion of the story got chopped off.

    Mind, saying that I don't actually think that Orgrim would've been handled well, given how there's this tendency to sand the edges off of him in things like Chronicle 2, compared to his best portrayal in Tides of Darkness, and that there's really no way that Grom ultimately being a good guy or the quantum Legion shit could ever have been done well.

    @Syegfryed

    Yeah, I get the same idea. The short stories have the benefit of being complete and telling a finished story about a character from start to finish. At the same time, since they're prose they can actually show the character's interior monologue, thoughts and feelings. The game can't show interiority and has much less room for dialogue, whereas long form stories don't get to have an ending, reducing characters to plot devices, which is why the videos and short stories are the best things to come out of it. One of the things that low-key annoyed me is that we never got the Gallywix from Blank Scroll in-game.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #12
    Yeah, Road of Damnation is pretty much the single best piece of Warcraft lore to me. With Maraad's Lords of War Youtube video being a close second. Speaking of which, in regards to @Super Dickmann's point on how WoD had a good setting and worldbuilding of Draenor itself but the plot was sabotaged by contrivance bonanza, the sad thing about Maraad's video is that it explored WoD as an actual alternative reality story where the character's motivation for going there and the arc that could have followed had everything to do with it being an AU. Only for Blizzard to drop it all because some people complained about muh sexism because he was creepy towards Y'rel when it was a part of the point of his story.

    Back to Road of Damnation, one thing that has always bugged me about it is that it puts Kel'thuzad's undying loyalty towards the Lich King in a completely new light. Given his attitudes expressed near the end of the story, him being loyal just because as it has been portrayed elsewhere doesn't make much sense. Instead, it'd likely had been a result of him loosing his mind or maybe even taking the potion that binds members of the Cult of the Damned to Lich King's will that is mentioned in Icecrown's questline. Sadly, this topic wasn't really explored further after this short story's release.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Yeah, that one was really good for its time. I do hope Blizzard makes more of these short stories in the future. Personally enjoyed the audio narrations that came from Legion the most.


    Blizz giff me nao.
    I think it is because in short stories they are able to add longer dialogue(as opposed to shorter ones that don't piss off people grinding mount) and peer into inner feelings of characters.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

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    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Golden Yak's Avatar
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    Yup, that's one of my favorites.

    And it's also adapted pretty well in the original Naxx trailer.



    "Your curiosity will be the death of you..."

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer SinR's Avatar
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    love the framerate drops on the Naxx Patch video.

    and the fact its in Winterspring.


    We've come a loooooooooooong way.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I had BfA Alpha. Then I had BfA Beta. Now I has BfA. Meh
    No Classic Beta. Even if I got it I probably wouldn't play.

  16. #16
    Warchief Aurabolt's Avatar
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    I just re-read it myself and it makes me wonder why Kel'Thuzad never got a full novelization like Athas did. I feel like there was a lot of potential to explain why Kelly first drew interest in Necromancy--this short hints at something about it drawing his interest--as well as what happens between after he is given Naxxramas and his enounters with Arthas later on. We know he is the founder of The Cult of the Damned and I feel like there is a lot of story in that regard that could be explored further.

    There's also the fact Blizzard hasn't definitively said one way or the other that Kelly is DEAD dead just like the first time. I think that's on purpose personally. It would be quite interesting if Kelly is brought back during or after Shadowlands to me personally.
    ...Ok, time to change the ol' Sig ^_^

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  17. #17
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Oh yeah, Gul'dan had legit character development. The difference between OG and AU Gul'dan really became solid after that.
    As much as people dislike WOD, AU Guldan video of his base story, is great, i have a friend that have never played WoW but he like to watch that video every now and then

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Oh yeah, Gul'dan had legit character development. The difference between OG and AU Gul'dan really became solid after that.
    As much as people dislike WOD, AU Guldan video of his base story, is great, i have a friend that have never played WoW but he like to watch that video every now and then

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post
    I just re-read it myself and it makes me wonder why Kel'Thuzad never got a full novelization like Athas did. I feel like there was a lot of potential to explain why Kelly first drew interest in Necromancy--this short hints at something about it drawing his interest--as well as what happens between after he is given Naxxramas and his enounters with Arthas later on. We know he is the founder of The Cult of the Damned and I feel like there is a lot of story in that regard that could be explored further.
    Most likely because old scholars are unpopular choice for main characters.
    There's also the fact Blizzard hasn't definitively said one way or the other that Kelly is DEAD dead just like the first time. I think that's on purpose personally. It would be quite interesting if Kelly is brought back during or after Shadowlands to me personally.
    I think he will get his raid for 9.1.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Most likely because old scholars are unpopular choice for main characters.
    Medivh. Ner'zhul. Khadgar. Gul'dan.

    Kel'thuzad has a rather popular fanbase as well.
    "You will become my force of retribution. Where you tread, doom will follow. Go now, and claim your destiny, Death Knight."

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingWarrior View Post
    Medivh. Ner'zhul. Khadgar. Gul'dan.

    Kel'thuzad has a rather popular fanbase as well.
    Ok, I yield.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

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