[Movie] Black Widow

[Kokolums]

The problem with black widow in the MCU is that, given her status as a normal human, either:

A. Tony Stark would give her an iron man suit of her own to always use.
B. The Van Dynes would give her an Ant Man suit of her own.
C. She would steal one of them if neither gave her one.

What makes NO sense is her just running around without a suit. Its quite annoying. Hell Tony gave a teenager a custom suit.

Honestly, id kinda expect she hid a suit somewhere on that planet where she died and faked her death.

[SavoirFaire]

It can introduce other characters into the MCU which is never a bad thing. I have trust in them to make a good movie, but I am personally kind of in the same boat as you...she had her conclusion...it's weird to me that kicking off phase 4 is a movie that takes place during the infinity saga...I feel they should have included this in phase 3 and not made this the first movie of phase 4.

I’m guessing the movie will end or post credit scene with her reliving what we’ve just seen as a happy moment for her within the soul stone, as a final send off scene she got a happy ending of sorts.

Bonus if she realizes some key item in the movie that she missed and is passed along as a McGuffin for later movies to connect them for the phase.

I just hope they don’t kill the bad guy like these movies are prone to do.

[Shadowferal]

It does look as if Harbour is enjoying himself.

[Asrialol]

I take it you never watch prequels, then?

But.. She's barely relevant in the Avengers movies. She's legit so useless they kill her off, to try to make it seem as if she did that one useful thing.

[Ophenia]

But.. She's barely relevant in the Avengers movies. She's legit so useless they kill her off, to try to make it seem as if she did that one useful thing.

She's useless as a superhero vs super-powered villains for sure, but she's essential in keeping the team together, just as Hawkeye is (at least in the movies).

[Gallahadd]

But.. She's barely relevant in the Avengers movies. She's legit so useless they kill her off, to try to make it seem as if she did that one useful thing.

To be fair, she's useless in them, because they're fighting people like Thanos and Loki.

In her own film, she's fighting Taskmaster. Who is far more her speed (but still, imo, a tier or so higher)

[PACOX]

I'll probably see it, MCU Black Widow has always been weird to me. Out of place even. A standalone might do her just though. I feel the same about Hawkeye.

They are fine they are facing terrestrial threats. They look crazy when they square up against cosmic ones.

[Nefarious Tea]

BW's reception in the MCU has been mostly positive, whereas CM was met with negativity from the get-go (which probably stems a LOT from her appearances in the comics)

It stems a lot more from how Brie Larson is kind of an acerbic person and well, you know, the good old-fashioned "NO GURLZ!" from the nerd crowd.

[PACOX]

Is hate for CM actually real and not just something groups on the internet think it's cool to whine about?

[JDL49]

Is hate for CM actually real and not just something groups on the internet think it's cool to whine about?

Incels hate 100% of it while more rational beings just have problems here and there assuming you have no problem with this style of movie.

[Logwyn]

The problem with black widow in the MCU is that, given her status as a normal human, either:

A. Tony Stark would give her an iron man suit of her own to always use.
B. The Van Dynes would give her an Ant Man suit of her own.
C. She would steal one of them if neither gave her one.

What makes NO sense is her just running around without a suit. Its quite annoying. Hell Tony gave a teenager a custom suit.

Honestly, id kinda expect she hid a suit somewhere on that planet where she died and faked her death.

Except she isn't a "normal" human. If you say Tony should give a suit to her. Why not just extend that further and ask why didn't Tony give a suit to everyone else too? Hawkeye could have used one. Captain America could not benefit from a suit? Rocket? Star-Lord?

[Shadowferal]

BW is kinda useless when dealing with a threat that takes a lot of physical power to deal with. And that's fine since that's not her level. She's best utilized in the shadows, finding secrets that may prove pivotal when dealing with such large threats. (She was terrific in Winter Soldier)

I agree that she's out of her class when dealing with Taskmaster in a straight up fight. But it seems she won't be alone in that fight. And that's the smart play.

As for CM, I dislike her because she's labeled the "most powerful" superhero in the MCU only because everyone else was hit with the nerf bat.

[Svifnymr]

Is hate for CM actually real and not just something groups on the internet think it's cool to whine about?

They responded to criticism with attacks, so it pissed off many folks. If they'd delivered an exceptional movie, perhaps it would have gone away, but the movie was Average quality, so it just kind of reinforced whatever pre-opinion folks already had. If you were mad, the movie just made you madder. If you thought it would be the next-best-thing, you probably really enjoyed it by focusing on positives. If, like the majority of people, you didn't reallllly care, then you probably thought it was average and maybe wonder what everyone was raving/ ranting about.
I certainly don't think it was Ghostbusters level of attacks+badmovie, so I don't really think it'll be used widely as an example. It'll just come up in comic-movie threads.

I really don't get the "backlash advertising" though, and while I don't think producers should cow-tow to the rabid fanbase criticisms, a simple "wait and see, it'll be worth it" or whatever is much better than "you just think she's bland because you hate women!".


Anyway, it doesn't really matter for Black Widow. I think the main complaint is "why now". If this had been done before Endgame, I think it would have gotten some more appeal and maybe given her Endgame death more gravitas.

[Anastacy]

It stems a lot more from how Brie Larson is kind of an acerbic person and well, you know, the good old-fashioned "NO GURLZ!" from the nerd crowd.

Eh. Shade was thrown at the movie as soon as it was announced, though.

CM has been a character that's had quite a push for some time now (in the comics), and hasn't always had the best reception.

[Kokolums]

Except she isn't a "normal" human. If you say Tony should give a suit to her. Why not just extend that further and ask why didn't Tony give a suit to everyone else too? Hawkeye could have used one. Captain America could not benefit from a suit? Rocket? Star-Lord?

Yeah she is a normal human compared to true superheroes.

Captain America is actually an truly enhanced human from the super serum.

Hawkeye could use a suit as well.

Rocket is a genetic-engineered entity with sci-fi bits and pieces in his body.

Star-Lord is half Eternal (altho Ego *claimed* he was powered-down after Ego was killed, might be true, might not be).

Of course, Tony gave a suit to Peter Parker and he actually has super powers, so he certainly could give a suit to everyone. Black Widow kinda requires a suit given the threat level though. And since BW is a super spy, she should have stolen one or both a long time ago unless they were given to her by now.

[Logwyn]

Yeah she is a normal human compared to true superheroes.

If we go that route then everyone is a normal human that can't stand toe to toe with Thanos or whatever super cosmic villain out there....

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, it doesn't really matter for Black Widow. I think the main complaint is "why now". If this had been done before Endgame, I think it would have gotten some more appeal and maybe given her Endgame death more gravitas.

Black Widow would have made sense maybe after the first Captain America maybe. But then everyone would have fell in love with the character so in Endgame her "death" would have been taken harder maybe??

[Kokolums]

If we go that route then everyone is a normal human that can't stand toe to toe with Thanos or whatever super cosmic villain out there...

That's not the point. The point is that Tony / the Van Dynes have the tech to bring Black Widow up to par with a certain level of superhero beyond just a human being.

[JDL49]

Star-Lord is half Eternal (altho Ego *claimed* he was powered-down after Ego was killed, might be true, might not be).

Actually that's half Celestial not Eternal. The Celestials created the Eternals and the off-shoot Deviants in the comics and probably in the MCU as well.

[Nefarious Tea]

Eh. Shade was thrown at the movie as soon as it was announced, though.

CM has been a character that's had quite a push for some time now (in the comics), and hasn't always had the best reception.

Both of your comments are easily explained by the usual rampant and casual sexism in nerd culture, as I already mentioned

[Tiwack]

I enjoyed CM. To me this looks like a toss up though and I'm not sure I'll watch it. To me this is too cliché and uninteresting as a family drama on top is too predictable and for me frustrating to watch as it clashes and becomes unnatural in regards to the attempted plot and genre. It's why something like James Bond is better even if BW is supposed to somewhat be the female equivalent of that. It'll need a lot of comedy and action to make up for it which the trailer didn't satisfy rather setting the scene instead which just came off standard and 'heard before' along with a few masked guys for a twist and to understand it's marvel- and it's this fact that makes it a coin flip of whether it's still a good movie or not.
I don't get why you'd mix up the artists with their art or why the producers think another of these run of the mill action spy movies with its own intrigue with a twist will succeed in cinemas? Oh well, we'll see. A top trained female assassin in tight leather fooling around with past ghosts and guys in spandex. Oh joy.