[Movie] Black Widow

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Neither of those were produced by Marvel Studios.

Where did Ro9ue say they were? Please point it out.

Marvel movies range from Logan to Deadpool.

[tyrlaan]

What? You actually figured out that Taskmaster was female before the actual reveal of her identity?

Because till that point, the character looked like a man, moved like a man, fought like a man. It was obviously intended, in order to have a huge impact on BW when the revelation happened.

And don't tell me they hired Kurylenko for her actual acting skills, since we just got one scene with her face on screen. They definitely casted her because of her height (and status, they wouldn't hire a tall nobody), so that when the revelation happened, we could accept that "so, it was a woman after all, and a tall one at that".

I'm not advocating for the silly "trans" poster, but unless you already knew who was playing the role, you couldn't discern that the character on screen was a woman. Even a tall one.

I suspected from the first trailer, but I honestly couldn't tell you why. The only "tell" I got from how Taskmaster moved is that I was wondering if they were going to reveal it was a robot and not even human.

For me I just don't feel I automatically assume gender based on outfit and gait. I'd quibble with the concept of "fought like a man", but ultimately you're not arguing in favor of the original point I was knocking down so I'm not terribly interested in debating it with you

Wouldn't happen. The character was after the vials, not Natasha.

Not in the movie as presented, no. But if they had decided Taskmaster was helping Dreykov of her own free will rather than controlled, it could have happened, which I think is more along the lines of the thought exercise I was responding to when I wrote that. But yeah, she was basically a zombie in the film.

[caervek]

I liked this film, I thought that the acting and directing was very good, shame about the bad writing being riddled with continuity errors and plot holes.

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I thought it played in the 80s.

It was set in the mid-90s, hence why they used a computer running Windows 2000 :P

[Ivanstone]

And don't tell me they hired Kurylenko for her actual acting skills, since we just got one scene with her face on screen.

Actually they pretty much did. Kurylenko is very good at doing the silent stuff. If you wanted an actress to just give to stare at you with fucked up eyes she's pretty much at the top of the list (shared with Marion Cotillard). Go watch Centurion if you want 90+ minutes of Kurylenko giving the stink eye.

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On the subject. Very horrible how they keep genderbending or just mutilating characters for the sake of the woke bible. They did Taskmaster horrible, they might just invent a new character instead of butchering others, they basically deadpooled taskmaster, and its the Wolvering version of deadpool (ugh)

They did make an entirely new character: Antonia Dreykov, the Red Room's taskmaster. Notice the small "t".

She's not even Tony Masters. Or even Toni Masters (a theoretical female version). Seriously did you honestly think the Red Room would use some American dude to be their ultimate enforcer? Hell my only issue with the change is that she's horribly under-utilized. You really don't get to see her fight all that much.

[Fabinas]

Actually they pretty much did. Kurylenko is very good at doing the silent stuff. If you wanted an actress to just give to stare at you with fucked up eyes she's pretty much at the top of the list (shared with Marion Cotillard). Go watch Centurion if you want 90+ minutes of Kurylenko giving the stink eye.

Quite a stretch to make such a claim. They know the reason, we just speculate.

[exochaft]

They did make an entirely new character: Antonia Dreykov, the Red Room's taskmaster. Notice the small "t".

She's not even Tony Masters. Or even Toni Masters (a theoretical female version). Seriously did you honestly think the Red Room would use some American dude to be their ultimate enforcer? Hell my only issue with the change is that she's horribly under-utilized. You really don't get to see her fight all that much.

Yeah, the actual powers of Taskmaster as we know it are mentioned as a throwaway line in Black Widow... and that's it. Are they used? Only part that I noticed on my first viewing was at the very beginning with the bridge fight scene when they disengage to make space: they used the same spin move. However, there's a good case that this isn't even an ability usage as every bloody Widow uses similar fighting styles and techniques (as is show when they're doing movement training in the Red Room).

However, I'm not going to say it's an entirely new character on purpose, as the baiting was very obvious, right down to the outfit and the Taskmaster Protocol. The hints were all there, but the execution is terrible to where it's only Taskmaster by reference. What are the powers of Taskmaster in Black Widow based upon what we she and what she does? She's basically just another Widow with a chip grafted on her neck, nothing more, nothing less... heck, even the magic red stuff works on her despite being hardwired. There is nothing exceptional about the character at all beyond slightly better plot armor and a slightly better ability to *poof* to where she needs to be for a scene to happen compared to other Widows.

One part that bugged me was trying to figure out how much Kurylenko was actually playing Taskmaster in the scenes we saw. When Natasha and Taskmaster are squaring off in the Red Room and Taskmaster's mask comes off, we get a hard cut to wide-angle shot where it's just both of them in the shot staring at each other... and it's insanely obvious that Kurylenko's head and neck are CGI'd onto the body (because it's very bad CGI and doesn't line up properly). I'm starting to think they only did shoulder shots with her, and that 99% of the time she literally isn't there, even for non-action scenes. Makes me wonder if the scenes were shot with a different actor and fixed in post to be replaced with Kurylenko and maybe a couple late reshoots... and I could think of several reasons why they would (none of them are good though). Conspiracy theorist in me would say that Taskmaster was originally a guy, but that didn't mesh well with the diversity mantra and messaging the film was going for, especially in light of commentary by the creators that was going around prior to and after the movie's release. I mean even the scenes at the end with the Widows and the 'evil plot' completely don't work if Taskmaster is a man, so you would have to do CGI and reshoots if that message changed partway through production.

I suppose the worst part about everything is that this could have been relatively easy win, even with its current release window. However, it's holding up Marvel's current writing streak of... well, terrible writing.

[Ivanstone]

Yeah, the actual powers of Taskmaster as we know it are mentioned as a throwaway line in Black Widow... and that's it. Are they used?

Yes. She specifically fights like the other Widows, Hawkeye and Captain America. Do they do a good job of representing that? Not really.

Its a bit baffling that they can do a pretty decent job of a skybase disintegrating mid-air, some good vehicular work but most of the melee combat scenes are kinda lame. The only one I enjoyed was the Nat-Yelena fight in the safe house.

She's basically just another Widow with a chip grafted on her neck, nothing more, nothing less... heck, even the magic red stuff works on her despite being hardwired. There is nothing exceptional about the character at all beyond slightly better plot armor and a slightly better ability to *poof* to where she needs to be for a scene to happen compared to other Widows.

She's strong enough to give a trained, superhumanly strong individual a very hard fight. She's not just another Widow. That's not to say that the TM/Guardian fight was interesting but I imagine that most people would get splatted by the Girthy Guardian.

Conspiracy theorist in me would say that Taskmaster was originally a guy, but that didn't mesh well with the diversity mantra and messaging the film was going for, especially in light of commentary by the creators that was going around prior to and after the movie's release. I mean even the scenes at the end with the Widows and the 'evil plot' completely don't work if Taskmaster is a man, so you would have to do CGI and reshoots if that message changed partway through production.

Its not unknown for action set pieces to be filmed before even a real script is in place (*cough*X3*cough*). I don't really expect a body-armoured character to have its stunts done by the actor.

There's no diversity mantra. I figured out that TM was Antonia well before the reveal. To me she's another Widow, just substantially more dangerous. It works within in the context of the movie. Its not well executed but at least the character has some potential.

People really need to get over their persona hang ups. The way I see it the personality known as Tony Masters is still unutilized. He's a completely different person than Antonia. This isn't like Deadpool in Wolverine Origins. They took Wade, made us think we were getting the smart ass we like and then just did something stupid with him.

[Hexian]

Honestly I liked it. It wasnt the best marvel film, but it was still fun to watch.

[Doffen]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/scarlet...se-11627579278

Wasn't this known for a very long time? Several months in fact?

I guess the lawsuit came a bit after release to see actual numbers from the initial release?

[Aurrora]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/scarlet...se-11627579278

Wasn't this known for a very long time? Several months in fact?

I guess the lawsuit came a bit after release to see actual numbers from the initial release?

Probably couldn't prove damages prior to release, or hoped the film would still do decently at the box office. The Disney+ release apparently resulted in rampant piracy that tanked the box office profits.

[Shadowferal]

I think Disney will try to settle quick and quiet. They need quality actors. And such talent won't go near the Disney brand if they don't pay.

[tyrlaan]

I think Disney will try to settle quick and quiet. They need quality actors. And such talent won't go near the Disney brand if they don't pay.

For sure. Every reason to settle, almost no reason not to.

Honestly, they should've offered a renegotiation ahead of time.

[Thelxi]

It was fine. Scarjo is a great actress and there were some good jokes. Definitely not a big and expensive spectacle of a superhero movie, but watchable.

[tyrlaan]

For sure. Every reason to settle, almost no reason not to.

Honestly, they should've offered a renegotiation ahead of time.

hmm, the plot thickens

Disney released a statement saying:

”There is no merit whatsoever to this filing. The lawsuit is especially sad and distressing in its callous disregard for the horrific and prolonged global effects of the Covid-19 pandemic. Disney has fully complied with Ms. Johansson’s contract and furthermore, the release of Black Widow on Disney+ with Premier Access has significantly enhanced her ability to earn additional compensation on top of the $20M she has received to date.”

[eschatological]

hmm, the plot thickens

Disney released a statement saying:

”There is no merit whatsoever to this filing. The lawsuit is especially sad and distressing in its callous disregard for the horrific and prolonged global effects of the Covid-19 pandemic. Disney has fully complied with Ms. Johansson’s contract and furthermore, the release of Black Widow on Disney+ with Premier Access has significantly enhanced her ability to earn additional compensation on top of the $20M she has received to date.”

So, they don't have an obligation to re-negotiate her salary. At all. She signed it, she's held to it.

But, if she was promised an "exclusive theatre release" in order to sign that contract which only got royalties off theatre profits, then she should win. It's all in proving that that promise was made, and she relied on it.

The estimate is that she lost FIFTY MILLION off the split release. $20m may be a lot to all of us, but I'd be sure as fuck suing too if I lost $50m in revenue.

I also love the new corporate habit of blasting litigants for not being sensitive or "acting correctly." Blizzard did the same thing in suggesting California, in suing Blizzard, is part of the reason why companies leave California. It's fucking comical.

[tyrlaan]

So, they don't have an obligation to re-negotiate her salary. At all. She signed it, she's held to it.

But, if she was promised an "exclusive theatre release" in order to sign that contract which only got royalties off theatre profits, then she should win. It's all in proving that that promise was made, and she relied on it.

The estimate is that she lost FIFTY MILLION off the split release. $20m may be a lot to all of us, but I'd be sure as fuck suing too if I lost $50m in revenue.

I also love the new corporate habit of blasting litigants for not being sensitive or "acting correctly." Blizzard did the same thing in suggesting California, in suing Blizzard, is part of the reason why companies leave California. It's fucking comical.

Yeah, seems like its a crappy attempt to alter public opinion?

Don't even get me started on the ABK response to the recent lawsuit...

[Egomaniac]

I also love the new corporate habit of blasting litigants for not being sensitive or "acting correctly." Blizzard did the same thing in suggesting California, in suing Blizzard, is part of the reason why companies leave California. It's fucking comical.

While I am with you in spirit on this generally speaking... in this case I think Disney has a point. They already had to delay the release of Black Widow Twice because of the Pandemic. They could have released it last year and ScarJo would have gotten diddly squat from the theatrical release. If, as Disney says, she's getting appropriate compensation through the Disney+...then she should just take what she gets and write the rest off as another casualty of of Covid. Now, if Disney is not compensating her appropriately through the premiere access rentals of Disney+...then maybe she's got a point.

In the end it's Millionaires suing Billionaires and I really just don't have a dog in that fight. With all the suffering Covid has caused the world in general...I don't have much sympathy for a millionaire that feels she lost out on a payday or a corporate giant that's clutching at every last penny.

[eschatological]

She's arguing that she's not getting anything from the D+ release, afaik.

Plus she's making an argument that releasing it on streaming services allowed it to have record high levels of piracy, cutting into the movie (and thus her) bottom line. Which we've seen in this very thread, in re: how people were gonna watch this movie. This is a harder argument to resolve because it obviously cuts into Disney's profit as well, so it's hard to argue they did it to their advantage and not hers, which is why you see the arguments about Iger etc getting bonuses from Disney+ subscribers being high. In that case, she's alleging specific individuals at Disney did it to enrich themselves (and in the process breach her contract), even though it may have hurt Disney's overall profits.

Also, the pandemic delay of the movie is irrelevant. Warner re-negotiated their contracts for putting their movies on HBO Max. It all highly depends on the language of the contract and whether it promised and expected an exclusive theatrical release.

[Svifnymr]

While I am with you in spirit on this generally speaking... in this case I think Disney has a point. They already had to delay the release of Black Widow Twice because of the Pandemic. They could have released it last year and ScarJo would have gotten diddly squat from the theatrical release. If, as Disney says, she's getting appropriate compensation through the Disney+...then she should just take what she gets and write the rest off as another casualty of of Covid. Now, if Disney is not compensating her appropriately through the premiere access rentals of Disney+...then maybe she's got a point.

In the end it's Millionaires suing Billionaires and I really just don't have a dog in that fight. With all the suffering Covid has caused the world in general...I don't have much sympathy for a millionaire that feels she lost out on a payday or a corporate giant that's clutching at every last penny.

Yeah, that's what initially came to mind for me. Disney could have released it to theaters when it would have died, then done the streaming and gotten their money from that if they were worried about the exclusive theater clause.

I'm also not sure how much more Disney "needs" ScarJo, though of course they are more than just MCU. Likewise, I'm sure there's plenty of actors willing to sell their soul to the mouse for whatever they'll get. I guess it really comes down to what the actual contract says.

[Doffen]

Sure it might seem petty for people(as in me and most) who don't earn this kind of money, but if she had that deal, then that's it.

The real injury as people points out, is the ease of making a solid quality version of it for everyone to download online for free, which of course hurts both. But that doesn't take away that she lost her piece(a bigger piece) of the cake anyway.