Flying ruined warmode

[Lyrel8490]

The real question is, why wpvp sucks so much that it need rewards to encourage people enabling it?

The answer is simple: because its not pvp experience you want to have if you are into pvp. It's not pvp when one side is outnumbered.

World pvp is like playing LoL but there is 50% chance your teammates will disconnect.
World pvp is like playing CS:Go but if you are CT (alliance), you only have bb guns
World pvp is like playing Overwatch but your entire team has lags
World pvp is like playing Fortnite except is not battle royale but 99 vs 1

And if you are lucky (or not be alliance) you are on the unfair advantage team.

PvP that is unfair by design is bound to fucking suck.

I agree wPvP could certainly be in a better state by itself. But that doesn't change my case tho. Even if wPvP would be perfectly balanced and everything, even if it were totally fair for everyone it would change nothing to me.

I am only in it for the rewards linked to the content i enjoy. And that is PvE not PvP. So i wouldn't enable warmode even if it were perfect. I only use warmode for PvE incentives.

I totally agree with you tho. I definitly think there is much potential for improvement for wPvP itself. And if improved wPvP would lead to a warmode that doesn't rely on PvE incentives to push participation all the better i'm all for it.

[Allinna]

War mode should cancel flying would be awesome all thoose pve people fucking upp balance sucks.

What balance? On my server no Alliance dared to touch Warmode until they started "Against Overwhelming Odds". Do you want to go back to the beginning of BFA when one faction ruled Warmode, cause that's not a lot of WPVP going on.

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But it IS okay, they have a right to not engage with you, if they chose. It is extremely unfortunate that you dont realize that. If only there were a group of servers just full of people that were dying to play with you...

No, if someone wants to go AFK they should do it on the ground so Vinzora has a small chance at getting that sweet magical world changing pvp orgasm he's chasing. Because that's most likely the only way he's getting any kills.

[Redhell]

This feels so much like a troll thread given the OPs responses, and if this bait is as obvious as it looks, shame on you all for taking it hook, line, and sinker.

On the off chance this is actually real, I just want to point out that the OP used the Classic Server point to try and bolster his argument early in the thread, and while I didn't bother reading the other 17 pages of back and forth, I didn't see anyone mention how shit the Classic Servers were/are post Phase 2. It, in fact, got so bad that an EU server saw the Horde literally camp Ironforge for days on end and every. single. active. Alliance. character. xferred off making the server damn near Horde only now.

But yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wPvP on Classic and what not. BTW OP is a mouth-breathing DH. Not sure why people are shocked at the buffoonery assuming this is real. Lowest IQ players, in general, made a DH their main. This is an indisputable fact.

[Kaver]

Warmode was great during the first half of the expansion, so that counters your argument. The only difference was no flying, so it clearly has a big impact on world PvP.

However, most people were only doing Warmode because they wanted the bonus rewards. It was never because they actually wanted to do world pvp and most people were trying to avoid pvp as much as possible.

[Razorice]

You had time to enjoy the world pvp before flying, while people who wanted flying had to cope with it.
Fair is fair.
Also, you can go to Classic and do wPvP there.

[SirCowdog]

I totally agree with you tho. I definitly think there is much potential for improvement for wPvP itself. And if improved wPvP would lead to a warmode that doesn't rely on PvE incentives to push participation all the better i'm all for it.

What potential? It's a PVP flag slapped onto a 100% PVE environment. The only potential there is for griefing and toxicity.

The ONLY way that WPVP will ever achieve any kind of potential is if the entire expansion and all zones are designed around it. Halfassing it will only result in failure. No MMORPG has managed to hybridize the two. Even EVE online, despite having PVE elements such as NPCs to kill, and PVE "safe" zones is still a 100% pvp environment. Games like GW2 or ESO divide and separate their PVP and PVE modes entirely, and even they don't do WPVP very well.

WoW's open world is fundamentally NOT a PVP game. Trying to graft PVP onto it is only going to continue to cause problems. Blizzard has shown time and again that they do not have a solution for population imbalance, griefing, or server domination. Hell, their servers can't even handle more than 20-30 players in one location, and phasing/layers actually FACILITATES abusing population imbalance to get free wins.

For all you people who want WPVP, you need to suck it up, take a hard look in the mirror, and understand that this game is not what you want it to be. It never will be.

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However, most people were only doing Warmode because they wanted the bonus rewards. It was never because they actually wanted to do world pvp and most people were trying to avoid pvp as much as possible.

It's also before people figured out how to effectively and smoothly abuse phases/sharding and the group finding system to join a steamroll group.

[Lyrel8490]

What potential? It's a PVP flag slapped onto a 100% PVE environment. The only potential there is for griefing and toxicity.

The ONLY way that WPVP will ever achieve any kind of potential is if the entire expansion and all zones are designed around it. Halfassing it will only result in failure. No MMORPG has managed to hybridize the two. Even EVE online, despite having PVE elements such as NPCs to kill, and PVE "safe" zones is still a 100% pvp environment. Games like GW2 or ESO divide and separate their PVP and PVE modes entirely, and even they don't do WPVP very well.

WoW's open world is fundamentally NOT a PVP game. Trying to graft PVP onto it is only going to continue to cause problems. Blizzard has shown time and again that they do not have a solution for population imbalance, griefing, or server domination. Hell, their servers can't even handle more than 20-30 players in one location, and phasing/layers actually FACILITATES abusing population imbalance to get free wins.

For all you people who want WPVP, you need to suck it up, take a hard look in the mirror, and understand that this game is not what you want it to be. It never will be.

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It's also before people figured out how to effectively and smoothly abuse phases/sharding and the group finding system to join a steamroll group.

As i said in my first post i'm not a PvP player myself. I do think tho that wPvP could be made better for the people that actually want to play it. Warmode is one of those things which could be improved.

The big mistake imo is the fact that they want to bring people into this with PvE incentives. That's rather stupid because in my case i don't really want to PvP i just want the PvE rewards.

I think they could build a lot around Warmode. Even define completely different rules while it is active (no flying for example). So yea i see a lot of potential. But none of that will ever work if they keep these rewards in there.

[Ange]

However, most people were only doing Warmode because they wanted the bonus rewards. It was never because they actually wanted to do world pvp and most people were trying to avoid pvp as much as possible.

This is what I see as a regular player.

The first 1-2 weeks of the expansion/major content patch are horrible. Every seasonal content hero is doing everything they can to harass as many other players as they can just to quit their meaningless MMO excursion - content seen, other players affected without socializing, unsub.

The 1-2 weeks of senseless WPVP anarchy, clearly a lot of non-subs on this forum seem to enjoy, gets boring pretty quick. The regular players are here for the grind and pvp is as far away from your min-max as it gets.

Take away the bonus reward and WPVP is dead, just as it was before the re-introduction. Look at LEGION nobody cared for WPVP, the honor WQ were done without much conflicts and outside of some low-level ganking in the first leveling week(seasonal heroes), you didnt even see anything worth mentioning.

[kaminaris]

What potential? It's a PVP flag slapped onto a 100% PVE environment. The only potential there is for griefing and toxicity.

It does have potential, like battle for nazjatar. Even if most of the time we camp ally base till event is won there were times were ally fought back making it ashran style push pull 3 hour long battle.


And ladies and gentleman, allow me to present you the ONE AND ONLY solution to this shit:

Make a battleground in open world.

Quick explanation:
1. You go to nazjatar, speak with NPC.
2. NPC joins you with 20-40 group of people
3. You wait for it till all groups are even to start - you can do WQ and all the other shit while waiting.
4. Once it starts, all members are phased to a single shard, BUT all the PvE environmental stuff remains. Rares, items, mobs etc, everything.
5. If someone disconnects, new people are joined in, like ashran. If you leave you get 15-30min penalty.
6. Some PvP objective to win, like capture the flag

So it feels like open world pvp battleground.

Dats da only way World pvp will ever work. Other stuff is just small-diks-ganking-kids

[Zephire]

Flying was a mistake but now they cant remove it

Agree, but they can, and should, rework it.

OT:
I like flying. Really enjoy checking out the world from above. Though it is just too damn good and convinient at the moment. A rework with PvP in mind would be nice. Still have flying in some form.

Also, the "net gun" has huge range to dismount players, it's really usable!

[Allinna]

This feels so much like a troll thread given the OPs responses, and if this bait is as obvious as it looks, shame on you all for taking it hook, line, and sinker.

I asked him if he was trolling and he said no. But he also posted a screen shot of someone afk on their flying mount and was upset that he couldn't kill them. An afk player. That's his version of pvp.

[Lyrel8490]

It does have potential, like battle for nazjatar. Even if most of the time we camp ally base till event is won there were times were ally fought back making it ashran style push pull 3 hour long battle.


And ladies and gentleman, allow me to present you the ONE AND ONLY solution to this shit:

Make a battleground in open world.

Quick explanation:
1. You go to nazjatar, speak with NPC.
2. NPC joins you with 20-40 group of people
3. You wait for it till all groups are even to start - you can do WQ and all the other shit while waiting.
4. Once it starts, all members are phased to a single shard, BUT all the PvE environmental stuff remains. Rares, items, mobs etc, everything.
5. If someone disconnects, new people are joined in, like ashran. If you leave you get 15-30min penalty.
6. Some PvP objective to win, like capture the flag

So it feels like open world pvp battleground.

Dats da only way World pvp will ever work. Other stuff is just small-diks-ganking-kids

The thing i don't quite understand with this is how is this really different from just a normal BG then? Isn't one aspect of wPvP that you can easily join and leave due to the fact you are in an open world environment? With this concept you are again restricted like in a traditional BG.

There needs to be a different possibility to achieve a better wPvP experience without practically turning it into a semi BG don't you think?

[Wildpantz]

What balance? On my server no Alliance dared to touch Warmode until they started "Against Overwhelming Odds". Do you want to go back to the beginning of BFA when one faction ruled Warmode, cause that's not a lot of WPVP going on.

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No, if someone wants to go AFK they should do it on the ground so Vinzora has a small chance at getting that sweet magical world changing pvp orgasm he's chasing. Because that's most likely the only way he's getting any kills.

Problem is atm Alliance tend to group and do more pvp while most horde just pve and dont engage in any pvp. Meaning warmode "bot" see ohh more horde on that shard lets add some ally and usally most ally pvp compared to horde who has 70% just flying above waiting

[Kaver]

That doesn't diminish the people who genuinly want to pvp like me. I used spend 2-4 hours a day pvping outdoor until blizzard unlocked flying in BFA. Same thing with Legion & WoD. Wpvp gets instantly killed when Pathfinder part 2 release.

Just realize that most of the people you fight against in Warmode doesn't really want to fight against you. They just want better rewards. People are incentivized to do something that they don't really want to because they will get more AP etc.

[SirCowdog]

It does have potential, like battle for nazjatar. Even if most of the time we camp ally base till event is won there were times were ally fought back making it ashran style push pull 3 hour long battle.


And ladies and gentleman, allow me to present you the ONE AND ONLY solution to this shit:

Make a battleground in open world.

Quick explanation:
1. You go to nazjatar, speak with NPC.
2. NPC joins you with 20-40 group of people
3. You wait for it till all groups are even to start - you can do WQ and all the other shit while waiting.
4. Once it starts, all members are phased to a single shard, BUT all the PvE environmental stuff remains. Rares, items, mobs etc, everything.
5. If someone disconnects, new people are joined in, like ashran. If you leave you get 15-30min penalty.
6. Some PvP objective to win, like capture the flag

So it feels like open world pvp battleground.

Dats da only way World pvp will ever work. Other stuff is just small-diks-ganking-kids

That's not WPVP. That's just a large BG with quests. AV/WG/Ashran all had PVE type quests within them. But the second populations are equalized, queues are established, and it gets separated off into an instance/locked phase.....it stops being WPVP and becomes a BG. Which is where PVP belongs in WoW.

[Redhell]

That doesn't diminish the people who genuinly want to pvp like me. I used spend 2-4 hours a day pvping outdoor until blizzard unlocked flying in BFA. Same thing with Legion & WoD. Wpvp gets instantly killed when Pathfinder part 2 release.

Imagine thinking a 15 year old game that hundreds of thousands of people currently play should be designed around the opinion of one guy because he "genuinely wants" to play a certain way.

You're in a very small minority, and I will never understand why a very small minority of players think the game should be tailored to them. The absolute epitome of entitlement.

Disgusting.

[Kaver]

that's what warmode is for. warmode means you get into war with the other faction. If you choose to go into warmode, it means you agree to potential ganks. I agree that the reward is excessive due to faction imbalance. Maybe another form of bonus would be good, like bonus honor.

So it's risk vs reward.

The incentive for having WM on should be because you like to do world PvP and not because you'll get extra AP. However, Blizzard cannot do that because the majority of players don't really want to do world PvP so they need to "trick" them into doing it. However, that also means that most people will try to avoid world PvP the best way they cant, hence flying.

[Redhell]

Provide me with numbers that proves your claim and I will shut the fuck up. Otherwise, I am allowed to form my opinion & say that there is a healthy amount of players that genuinely enjoy pvp.

You do not get to dictate who is the majority & who is the minority without even knowing which is which.

PvP, as a whole, has been dying at a rapid rate since Legion as the ~250k players on the ladder at the end of WoD compared to the ~50k players at the end of Legion would show, but I digress given we are talking wPvP not PvP in general. Nice goal post shift.

I would say the permanent 25% buff that Alliance players get while in WM is more than enough proof that the majority of players don't want to partake in wPvP, and I would infer, based on that fact, the number of people who "genuinely want" to wPvP is a minority of the left over minority.

Horde characters don't turn WM off because they've had it on since 8.0. Alliance characters only turn it on when they want the 25% bonus. wPvP exists in Naz and Mech during their CTA weeks. I don't know what else to tell you.

You can choose to live in your fantasy land where your opinion holds a greater value in spite of the above realities, but you're only choosing to be delusional in the miracle chance Blizzard feels bad for you.

[Jazzhands]

That doesn't diminish the people who genuinly want to pvp like me. I used spend 2-4 hours a day pvping outdoor until blizzard unlocked flying in BFA. Same thing with Legion & WoD. Wpvp gets instantly killed when Pathfinder part 2 release.

How do I manage to finish AOO in like 20-30 mins then? If wPvp is entirely dead and buried I shouldnt be able to get a kill on average once a minute.

[Jowany]

World PVP was dead years ago.. There is nothing like player vs player.. now its almost every time group vs player and it was before flying.. 1v1 you can beat healer, 1v1 you cant beat tank.. As a tank spec (guardian) I can solo kill 2-4 players.. As I said, WPVP is already dead and flying isn't what killed it.