Nazjatar, Nyalotha and Argus could have been their own major continents

[Tradu]

While I do think Nazjatar, Nyalotha and Argus could(and should) have been their own expansions, I don't really agree that BfA's setting is bad. The problem with BfA's story is that it's yet another stupid faction conflict, rather than just exploring a new continent.

[Vakna]

Nooo thank you.

This old god shit is already getting old.

It's better than roleplaying game of thrones.

[Soon-TM]

And you keep bitching about nonsense my dude.

I will, especially since you seem to care so much

[Beefhammer]

I will, especially since you seem to care so much

You know it.������

[Soon-TM]

It's better than roleplaying game of thrones.

A !@#$ty version of GoT... If only we had an actual Cersei or Varys (sp?) in WoW.

[gurutikka]

i believe sylvanas wants to control nzoth

[Aleloron]

Can't really agree with you. I vastly prefer Kul Tiras + Zandalar to more of Argus. BfA has it shortcomings, but the setting is not one of them.

As for Ny'alotha, I wish it could of been a zone but I don't know about an entire continent. Old Gods don't really have an expansive theme and I feel like it would of gotten repetitive very quickly like felfire in Legion.

I dunno. Myself, I would love to see the whole of Azeroth taken over by the Old Gods, with perhaps only one or two free cities for players to congregate. Could have given the world a real “we’ve been pushed to our last stronghold and the enemy is at the gates” sense of desperation. As a fan of Lovecraft I dislike the idea of we mere mortals being able to take down these vast cosmic horrors; I feel like there should have been something much more...I don’t know how to describe it...significant, let’s say, that would enable us to even survive in their presence long enough to simply escape with our bodies and minds intact.

Of course, you could be right and it could have gotten annoying quickly had it been done the way that I’ve described.

[Understarmor]

I dunno. Myself, I would love to see the whole of Azeroth taken over by the Old Gods, with perhaps only one or two free cities for players to congregate. Could have given the world a real “we’ve been pushed to our last stronghold and the enemy is at the gates” sense of desperation. As a fan of Lovecraft I dislike the idea of we mere mortals being able to take down these vast cosmic horrors; I feel like there should have been something much more...I don’t know how to describe it...significant, let’s say, that would enable us to even survive in their presence long enough to simply escape with our bodies and minds intact.

Of course, you could be right and it could have gotten annoying quickly had it been done the way that I’ve described.

I 100% agree here....i wouldve loved this earth shattering change but blizz wants to play it safe and not upset anyone and keep the cookie cutter world the way it was.

I honestly feel that they should've done something massive like this AFTER shadowlands so that when we come back we all come back to this epic war that was started by the old gods and we have no time to rest....also when they did cataclysm they shouldve made it so that you could quest in the old world before it got destroyed but as you progressed through the games story you started to see the changes and they could've accomplished this with the phasing....i think it would've taken a LOT of work but it would've put this game over the top in terms of gaming.

Also, it would've kept everyone happy, those who loved the old world could still make a new character and play the old world or experience it again for nostalgia reasons and those who were leveling would be in the new world.

That being said, if you wanted to group up you still could but the higher level character would be brought back to the old world that was phased since it would make more sense since the "new" character was still exploring the world.

[Soon-TM]

they shouldve made it so that you could quest in the old world before it got destroyed but as you progressed through the games story you started to see the changes and they could've accomplished this with the phasing....i think it would've taken a LOT of work but it would've put this game over the top in terms of gaming.

Also, it would've kept everyone happy, those who loved the old world could still make a new character and play the old world or experience it again for nostalgia reasons and those who were leveling would be in the new world.

Somewhat offtopic, but with Classic being a thing now, I don't understand why couldn't we level 10-50 in the pre-Cata Kalimdor/EK come Shadowlands.

[ulululu]

If Shadowlands was patch content there would be someone complaining the same way you are.

Doesn't bother the fact he ist 107% right. Solely the "Old god"-status of N'Zoth would've been a good enough reason to develop and create an entire expansion surrounding it - aside from a more lore-focused perspective, of course.

We prepared the entire expansion for the upcoming threat, channeling the very sources of our planet for getting rid of its biggest burden. Instead of crusading to the sleeping city of Ny'alotha inside the Black Empire (imagine the dimension of it as seen in the 'Warbringers: Azshara'-Cinematic): Azshara is nothing more then BfA's Lady Vashj even though she totally would've deserved the treatment of an entire expansion final boss in terms of lore importance and depth.. at least that's how it seems like now.

Wasted potential.


Shadowlands shouldn't have been a "patch content" either, btw.

[Lorathir]

Nzajatar, Nyalotha and Argus

Actually no and yes.

Nazjatar could have been spread into three semi-zones like Argus did. with bigger city and swallowed civilization like Atlantida.

Nyalotha could use that behavior as well.

and Argus should have been one big fat continent just like Outland was. broken, beaten and shattered.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Doesn't bother the fact he ist 107% right. Solely the "Old god"-status of N'Zoth would've been a good enough reason to develop and create an entire expansion surrounding it - aside from a more lore-focused perspective, of course.

Oh those expansions based on C'thun, Yogg, and Y'Shaarj were great weren't they? Their "Old God" status was good enough for them.

[Gaidax]

I am glad they did not make whole frikkin' expansions around these, I want story to move forward not go full throttle in neutral.

We already were tiptoeing around this shit for 15 years, it's about time we tie things up and move forward.

[Orby]

Could say the same with the Firelands and the Emerald Dream, and Azjol'Nerub.

Although for Azjol'Nerub I would have settled for that being a zone over a continent, even if the zone runs under most of Northrend, so who knows what the future holds. Still the most disappointing thing cut from WotLK. Also criminal how they treated Abub'Arak

[Evaddon]

Yeah, among other things that could've been more then what they were.

Battle for Azeroth literally could've been split into 2 or 3 expansions

[Vladier]

I wonder who would be the final bosses of what raids in a hypothetical expansion set around Azshara and Nazjatar? What would be the name of that no-name naga in the Temple of Azshara and that other no-name naga, or if throw in a curve, a faceless in the Summer Home of Azshara before we finally go on to actual Azshara in her Eternal Palace of Azshara?

And how many demonic citadels could we raid on Argus? What about Ny'alotha, how many consonants and apostrophes are we going to spend on bosses of yet another Old God Temple of Infinite Purple Doom? I'm sure our ear wouldn't just vomit somehow from all the Shath'Yar spewed at us.

[Mellrod]

On one hand i definitely agree, Argus would have been more impressive were it fully fleshed out, if the vast expanses of shadowy plains, hellish mountains, and surreal city scapes we see in the distance were more than just smoke-and-mirror set pieces. It wouldn't even have to be all black and green hellscape, because Blizzard as shown off their knack for variety when their continent level design plenty times before.

On the other hand, the question is going to be "just how much of this theme can we handle before it's too much?" It was a harsh lesson learned between MoP & WoD, and obviously practiced in Legion by ending the demon war that's gone on since Warcraft. I don't think there ever was going to be a right time to introduce Argus as a full world once Legion came out. As for Nazjatar, I don't think it would've been very interesting to have an expansion based on the underwater world at all. I do however think that it would've been amazing if we were somehow able to see the sunken city Zin-Azshari in it's prime, fully fleshed out. I have wanted that ever since seeing it during Azshara's Warbringer short.

The Well of Eternity dungeon simply doesn't do it justice anymore after seeing gorgeous shots like this:


WoE was just generic fantasy elves themed city full of reused assets with a poor sense of scale. From this we see that it's much more of a mediterranean city with some heavy roman influence in the architecture, and an incredible sense of scale bigger than even Suramar. After BfA Blizzard has an untouched Zin-Azshari fleshed out more in concept, so it would be a shame not flesh it out more in-game with atleast a scenario, instance, or zone which explores this version of the city. We know Blizzard is capable of pulling off some gorgeous cities nowadays with Suramar and Dazar'alor serving and prime examples.

I digress though. I agree with what would be cool to see in the game - all these places in lore that players have always imagined visiting since the game's first expansion. Significant places we've dreamed up entire expansions around being made nothing but a single questing zone or set of instances in live can be pretty upsetting, but Blizzard and a lot of folks in this thread seem to agree that it's all about timing. What location best fits an expansion's story and theme? What's the best way to bring in that setting within the larger story of the expansion? Those are the questions that decide whether or not we get to visit what we want and how.

I for one am pretty interested in seeing the Shadowlands fleshed. Ny'alotha may have been the one place that might have deserved it more, but from the sound of it, The Shadowlands are like nothing we've visited before. It's an all-encompassing dimension containing an infinite array worlds and realms, each with their own lore and denizens. It's bigger than Ny'alotha, being the place where almost everything goes after death It's significant enough that it's not just some backwater continent, a single planet, instance, set of questing scenarios, a max level questing zone. It could have easily been that instead, and since Shadowlands have hardly been fleshed out at all I think we might be lucky it isn't. I'll take something entirely new over something we already know of and have expectations about (i.e. Argus, Emerald Dream, Nazjatar/Zin-Azshari, etc.)

It seems premature to kill N'zoth in an instance and not even make Ny'alotha into a questing zone, but perhaps Blizzard is eager to put old Titan-related lore to rest and open up some new chapters full of unfathomable cosmic entities and places to see.

[Maxilian]

I've always pictured the shadowlands as something similar to helyas place. Not as a world with vampires, goat people, weird angry murnsters and angels.

I guess I just always imagined ooo spooky darkness, sorrow, emptyness and nothingness

To each their own I guess

Well... they did say that the Shadowlands is a really big place, so i do imagine we do find many areas that are like Helyas zone.

[Timester]

And yet he's taken down by an Azerite kamehameha, is the boss of a patch with no new zones, only Old God gooped old zones and a raid, as well as the not-scenarios. There's also one set of armor per armor specialization, to the point that the BoA armor tokens use raid gear models.

He's being overshadowed hard by the Shadowlands, and Blizzard is happy to emphasize that with the mediocre level of direct involvement he's given. It reeks of "We wanna move on to our newest Sylvanas fanfic, but we promised these guys N'zoth and we have to do something to stave off the content drought."

How were the other Old Gods defeated, or even presented? C'thun? Yogg-Saron?

The entire content of 8.3 is dedicated to N'zoth, from the Visions, to world invasions, to a raid.

[Shakana]

I like huge, repetitive themes. That's why Scourge and Legion were so cool.

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Shadowlands have as much potential as Argus and Nazjatar. Kul Tiras, however, although it was made really interesting, could have been a zone and it would be fine.

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Naga zones can be far more diverse. Blizzard tends to make boring places interesting. Look at Kul Tiras and Northrend.

1. Agreed.
2. Don't agree - Kultiras is good as it is. Even would like a huge continent.
3. Agreed.

If anything i think blizzard needs to work in giving zones more personality. Not just a place for rares and npcs/mobs alive in general. And get currency. The Legion for example is supposed to be doing some kind of work behind our backs in Argus, and Nazjatar... well i don't even know what nagas do but, could have more secrets in the zone, i would love to get manapearls from chests too or something.

I think they concentrate too much mobs together in that zone without anything immersive for the player to explore and be more comfortable in that zone to walk and not get rays after you flying too. I feel like i'm as well on a rollercoaster when i need to pick quests and go down to do the quests. And then come back up again, just feels awkward being in that place.