How did pvp gearing get this bad?

[Kagthul]

This is a good thing. It gets rid of all the toxic PvPers who are in it only to stomp noobs rather than actually show skill.

Thank you for self identifying as monumentally mentally handicapped.

Makes things easier going forward.

Spending millions doing developing for and balancing on an activity that ~60,000 people do (out of millions of players) is not something Blizzard will do.

Try to wrap your brain around the part where the game has to attract and retain players, and systems wont be designed to appeal to an absurdly tiny minority of people. They had to introduce LFR precisely because the bosses told them they could no longer continue to pour resources into an activity that less than 15% of the playerbase even participated in.

What you want is a MOBA.

Go play League.

And while we're at it (this is not directly at you, necessarily) -

this entire concept of "BUT I MIGHT HAVE TO PVE TO GET THE ABSOLUTE BESTEST PIECE OF GEAR!!!!11!!12@@!@@#!1" pearl-clutching, and its reverse "BUT OMG I HAVE TO DO PVP TO GET THE BEST GEAR FOR MYTHIC RAIDS THAT ONLY LIKE 2% of the Player Base even does11"!@"2@"!'11"!!!"!!" hand-wringing can just fucking stop right now.

Yeah... if you want to be the ABSOLUTE BESTEST TRYHARD, you might have to play the WHOLE GAME, not just one part of it, to get the best.

Too bad, so sad, not sorry. Get the fuck over it.

Otherwise, you have NO ground to stand on when people demand the bestest gear from doing Pet Battles. If people should only have to play the ONE ASPECT of the game and be able to get the VERY BESTEST, then that means ANY activity.

Or you can shut the fuck up about it.

You might need to play the WHOLE GAME if you want to squeeze out that last, totally non-needed 2% throughput.

Cry me a fucking river.

[FelPlague]

If you beat the best, you're not the best? lmao ok

PvP gear sims/parses just as good/better than a lot of the raid equivalent, but it's not best in slot because "reasons"

Sure fam. Anyway pvp pieces are bis for most classes.

and yes, most.

Warrior, DH, DK (the one from method you mentioned earlier), Hunter, Monk, Mage, Shaman.

That's 7/13, so most.

Thanks for playing.

Except in most of the screenshots they are not number 1. Also few people have full BIS so you are simply showing people who have more BIS or skill then others. Which is why it proves nothing. Those guys are not wearing full BIS few if anyone is. So being high up just proves you have more BIS. Not that each individual piece is bis..
2.also white funny how you said I'm arguing just to argue. But you have specifically said in many of your posts your doing just that, cause "this is a game to you and I'm just your plaything"

3. Also funny how you exclaim 1 spec is the entire class.
So far you have shown 1 item in 1 slot for 1 spec of 1 class it is tied for BIS.
Nothing more, everything less.
I showed you method had one guy who happened to have a pvp piece, and their guys are far from BIS.


A guy with 11 BIS but wearing a 410 helmet, beating a person wearing 1 bis that happens to be a 450 helmet. Does not prove the 410 helmet is bis over the 450. It proves that person has more then the other

Why you showing parses and saying. "Hey this guy that beat other people on this one fight happens to have this piece!" Proves nothing, as usual.

A guy who is 450 ilvl but using shitty talents. That then beats someone who is 410 using the BIS talents. Does not suddenly make those other talents the BIS. There is other factors.

Which is quite funny, cause as you say yourself "if you best the best your the best." In most of your screenshots there is people beating the people you link. Those people not using PvP pieces. So obviously as you yourself say. That means that the people below them. Using the PvP pieces. Are not BIS

[123youshowme]

Except in most of the screenshots they are not number 1. Also few people have full BIS so you are simply showing people who have more BIS or skill then others. Which is why it proves nothing. Those guys are not wearing full BIS few if anyone is. So being high up just proves you have more BIS. Not that each individual piece is bis..
2.also white funny how you said I'm arguing just to argue. But you have specifically said in many of your posts your doing just that, cause "this is a game to you and I'm just your plaything"

3. Also funny how you exclaim 1 spec is the entire class.
So far you have shown 1 item in 1 slot for 1 spec of 1 class it is tied for BIS.
Nothing more, everything less.
I showed you method had one guy who happened to have a pvp piece, and their guys are far from BIS.


A guy with 11 BIS but wearing a 410 helmet, beating a person wearing 1 bis that happens to be a 450 helmet. Does not prove the 410 helmet is bis over the 450. It proves that person has more then the other

Why you showing parses and saying. "Hey this guy that beat other people on this one fight happens to have this piece!" Proves nothing, as usual.

In most they are #1, you can go back and browse.
You're the one calling me what, a sucker for punishment? You started bantz and couldn't take it so you resort to reporting my post, classic mmo-c behaviour tbh.

So why did you bring up method? roflmao, so you're saying that your own cited information is useless and flawed? Jesus christ just shut up.

There are 2 patchwerk fights in EP. Sivara and ashvane. I linked you parses from one. Weren't we comparing patchwerk raidbots sims? please just stop. You're outclassed, just go back to recording videos or whatever you do in your spare time

[FelPlague]

In most they are #1, you can go back and browse.
You're the one calling me what, a sucker for punishment? You started bantz and couldn't take it so you resort to reporting my post, classic mmo-c behaviour tbh.

So why did you bring up method? roflmao, so you're saying that your own cited information is useless and flawed? Jesus christ just shut up.

There are 2 patchwerk fights in EP. Sivara and ashvane. I linked you parses from one. Weren't we comparing patchwerk raidbots sims? please just stop. You're outclassed, just go back to recording videos or whatever you do in your spare time

"Yeah go back to making a above average living from home whenever you want to work for however long you want to work, for a friend." Yeah man you got me there. I am so embarrassed ,humiliated, oh noooooooooooooo.

4 specs is not a majority of classes.
Nor have you proven those specific pieces are BIS just that those players have more gear/skill then others.

So far you have 1/108. Assassination rogue helmet. That's far from most

[clownpenisfart]

It became bad because they literally decided that is was unjust that pvpers didn't have to endure rng when gearing up like pveers do (i cba finding the quote but i recall that ion said something to that extent). Something like gearing up too quickly spoils the game or something (a stupid pov when it comes to pvp: you want to get gear out of the equation as fast as possible - you should progress by getting better, not by increasing the numbers on your gear)

And they removed pvp gear because... Well I can't imagine a single good reason for that. For all its flaws, in WoD they had finally came up with a very good system for pvp gear (that thing where pvp gear was just ok for non instanced pve and scaled up while engaged in pvp fights so as to avoid to have specific stats just for pvp).

I guess that's what happens when elitist pveers take charge of the game's direction. To them pvp isn't something to be enjoyed by pvpers but instead something to be used by PvEers to play "who have the biggest numbers"

[Steelangel]

Thank you for self identifying as monumentally mentally handicapped.
<Everything else snipped because it's not only stupid, but doesn't address any point I have ever made>

To be called "mentally handicapped" by someone like you isn't even an insult. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and are arguing against something no one has ever said ever.

Go back to being curbstomped by RUIN.

[Timewalker]

Is it that bad to have to do 2-3 10+'s to be on par with everyone else?

[Niwes]

Like everything in wow nowadays, it's to make you GRIND.
If you grind, then you don't get your rewards and then fuck off until the next content patch, and most importantly, stop paying your sub.

Pvp-ers used to get their pvp gear in 1-2 months, wreck noobs, get bored and fuck off.

But if the pvp gear is a joke, and they have to grind gear for months like everyone else, then they stay subbed like everyone else.

Unlesd of course they're part of that teeny tiny percentage that are actually high rated.

thats my oppinion too. its all about $$$

[Kagthul]

To be called "mentally handicapped" by someone like you isn't even an insult. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and are arguing against something no one has ever said ever.

Go back to being curbstomped by RUIN.

What a compelling counter-argument.

Oh, no, nothing. Just mindless spew.

I can go back the whole one post where, in fact, that is EXACTLY what you suggested, trollheim.

"lol good theyll all quit and then just us REAL PVPers will be all thats left"

Yeah.

All 60,000 of you.

The math on this has been done for almost a decade. Every time they take a step towards the supposed "gearless, level-less, just PvP for the fun of it" supposed nirvana, participation collapses.

[docterfreeze]

They had a good thing going cata-WoD. PvP gear was BiS in PvP and most of the time PvPers never felt the need to PvE for a big advantage and vice versa. You weren't denied slots by not partaking in the rating grind either. The new system is clearly a business decision, not a gameplay decision.

[Steelangel]

What a compelling counter-argument.
I can go back the whole one post where, in fact, that is EXACTLY what you suggested, trollheim.

"lol good theyll all quit and then just us REAL PVPers will be all thats left"

The math on this has been done for almost a decade. Every time they take a step towards the supposed "gearless, level-less, just PvP for the fun of it" supposed nirvana, participation collapses.

Way to go with a fake quote. This is what I actually said: "This is a good thing. It gets rid of all the toxic PvPers who are in it only to stomp noobs rather than actually show skill."

And then you make up some number out of thin air: Only 60,000 people with play! And claim some "math" was done on it. What math? Where? Prove it.

Less than 60,000 people participate in Mythic kills when they are new. In fact, going by the "math", only 4,000 people at maximum could ever get the Famed Slayer of X acheivements, and yet they have the dev team falling all over them for an entire class of raiding. Don't give me the bullshit about how small numbers of players don't get attention.

Spare me your bitter anger and tears, Kagthul. Maybe get some fresh air.

[clownpenisfart]

So just for kicks I tried to resub for a month. I have a rogue that I played for a few weeks back at bfa release. Barely 350 ilevel, 130k HP.

I did one invasion quest series thing in vol'dun, it rewarded me ilevel 355 boots when I already have ilvl 400 ones. Doing just that already bored me out of my mind. I can't overstate the immense gap between the enjoyment I get in pvp and the absolute tedious boredom I get out of PvE.

Is there any fucking way at all I can get that gear to something decent quickly without touching one more bit of PvE or is this game that much of a lost cause?

[Tyrannica]

Blizz removed pvp gear since legion and their stupid honor 3.0 system.

And in BfA there are not even raid tier class sets, what do you expect to see here in terms of pvp gear?

[Amaterasu65]

So just for kicks I tried to resub for a month. I have a rogue that I played for a few weeks back at bfa release. Barely 350 ilevel, 130k HP.

I did one invasion quest series thing in vol'dun, it rewarded me ilevel 355 boots when I already have ilvl 400 ones. Doing just that already bored me out of my mind. I can't overstate the immense gap between the enjoyment I get in pvp and the absolute tedious boredom I get out of PvE.

Is there any fucking way at all I can get that gear to something decent quickly without touching one more bit of PvE or is this game that much of a lost cause?

Spam BGs, do ranked 2v2 to get some rating up and do the weekly PvP quests. Being Alliance also gives you Overwhelming Odds which is extra loot and Conquest source. Strictly PvP only content.

[Super Kami Dende]

It got bad because Players incessantly cry about every fucking iteration of it, so they need to keep trying new things to try and stop the jackasses from crying constantly.

PvP'ers and their toxic crying manchildren community are literally the worst part of WoW and the way it is balanced.

[Amariw]

And while we're at it (this is not directly at you, necessarily) -

this entire concept of "BUT I MIGHT HAVE TO PVE TO GET THE ABSOLUTE BESTEST PIECE OF GEAR!!!!11!!12@@!@@#!1" pearl-clutching, and its reverse "BUT OMG I HAVE TO DO PVP TO GET THE BEST GEAR FOR MYTHIC RAIDS THAT ONLY LIKE 2% of the Player Base even does11"!@"2@"!'11"!!!"!!" hand-wringing can just fucking stop right now.

Yeah... if you want to be the ABSOLUTE BESTEST TRYHARD, you might have to play the WHOLE GAME, not just one part of it, to get the best.

Too bad, so sad, not sorry. Get the fuck over it.

Otherwise, you have NO ground to stand on when people demand the bestest gear from doing Pet Battles. If people should only have to play the ONE ASPECT of the game and be able to get the VERY BESTEST, then that means ANY activity.

Or you can shut the fuck up about it.

You might need to play the WHOLE GAME if you want to squeeze out that last, totally non-needed 2% throughput.

Cry me a fucking river.

Weird rant. Nobody's asking for pvp to get you the "bestest pve gear". Specifically opened the thread to remind how in wod pve got you the best pve gear, and pvp got you the best pvp gear. There was little overlap (the very top pvp gear in pve environments was less than mythic raiding).

A more apt comparison would be if battle pet stats would be affected by your character gear, and the easiest way to gear up for that would be m+.

That would be rather sad for pet battlers, as it is now for dedicated pvpers who wanna focus on this aspect of the game. This is a good time as any to remind that me, and several others, *dont* mind doing m+10, but many pvpers do. There is no reason to force them just because i enjoy it, especially when it didn't use to be like this.

[Didly]

I don't know already how much I need to repeat same thing again and again. It’s not difficult, everything is extremely clear and simple

I tried reading that Engrish filled abomination you linked and have no idea what that person (or yourself if you wrote it) is trying to say. It reads like something that's been through Google Translate numerous times.

No idea who bitched about the Legion system, because to me it worked fine. Templates are badass because it's alt-friendly, so you can experiment with comps without needing to grind PVE if you solely want to do rated PVP.

I'd love to see a GW2-esque system, again only for rated PVP, that allows you to build a character to your liking. Sort of like a tourney realm. BGs can be separate- you wear whatever you have, but in 2s, 3s, and RBGs you'd use a customizable template.

Spam BGs, do ranked 2v2 to get some rating up and do the weekly PvP quests. Being Alliance also gives you Overwhelming Odds which is extra loot and Conquest source. Strictly PvP only content.

I can tell you haven't actually done this, because it doesn't work. The reward rates from PVP are ass, and it's no where near a viable way to gear. Overwhelming Odds is one 415 piece a week, which is useless due to the low item level. No idea why that quest didn't scale. At this point if you're stepping into the arena above the 1800 bracket in anything less than 430-435, you'll be farmed. The good news is that most players in the arena are mythic raiding failures that can't land an interrupt if their lives depended on it. They can simply PVE into people and due to the gear discrepancy they often win.

[Amaterasu65]

I tried reading that Engrish filled abomination you linked and have no idea what that person (or yourself if you wrote it) is trying to say. It reads like something that's been through Google Translate numerous times.

No idea who bitched about the Legion system, because to me it worked fine. Templates are badass because it's alt-friendly, so you can experiment with comps without needing to grind PVE if you solely want to do rated PVP.

I'd love to see a GW2-esque system, again only for rated PVP, that allows you to build a character to your liking. Sort of like a tourney realm. BGs can be separate- you wear whatever you have, but in 2s, 3s, and RBGs you'd use a customizable template.


I can tell you haven't actually done this, because it doesn't work. The reward rates from PVP are ass, and it's no where near a viable way to gear. Overwhelming Odds is one 415 piece a week, which is useless due to the low item level. No idea why that quest didn't scale. At this point if you're stepping into the arena above the 1800 bracket in anything less than 430-435, you'll be farmed. The good news is that most players in the arena are mythic raiding failures that can't land an interrupt if their lives depended on it. They can simply PVE into people and due to the gear discrepancy they often win.

Yes I haven't done gearing exclusively with PvP. It's not that viable. Just told you how to do it without doing PvE at all. It's neither fun nor effective, but it's possible if you're willing to go through all this just to not do PvE content at all.

[Alkizon]

Didly
have no idea what that person (or yourself if you wrote it) is trying to say.

It most likely will sound strange, but it’s apparently very good result, let it remain so...

The point is that I had rather unpleasant conversation with friend who, in view of my great interest, explained all this. Not kind of offensive conversation, but rather explaining to me purpose of what was invested in forum's activity then, redistributing my motivation and understanding/awareness of my own actions within framework of presuppositions of future changes. This again sounds confused, but I can’t say more... In short, I won’t going to write anything more here, on the forum, regarding game design (if only may be conversation will be about models) in view of absolute futility for me to improve its status. I was very vividly and specifically reminded that I will not start playing it anyway, since they aren't going to return to normal, cute, but minimalist art, which a priori deprives me of opportunity to enjoy possible successful result of my similar actions, which means that I should not be interested. So I don't.

Didn't understand? Well, that's great (I hope devs also still don't), so I didn't make enough damage to result, which my friend achieved. Thank you for reassuring

ps. Especially after this happened and my posts' history become as some kind of unique only surviving requiem of these people's forum work, which, I think, globally is very sad result... and I suppose, this is the only reason why warlock allowed me to do this (foreseeined dangers of oblivion of all material in advance) and only now set my brains in place. I was worth to make the same mistake in order to understand situation better. To become smarter and kinder, but still, to some extent, more prudent and tough.

[RelaZ]

No idea who bitched about the Legion system, because to me it worked fine. Templates are badass because it's alt-friendly, so you can experiment with comps without needing to grind PVE if you solely want to do rated PVP.

Templates sucked because they removed any and all customization.

Additionally, PvE gear acquistion rate was much higher than PvP gear acquistion rate so PvPers were forced into PvE to increase their ilvl. This is a fundamental flaw if PvP and PvE gear are to be "one and the same", otherwise PvErs will be forced into PvP , and that would simply not be acceptable to Blizzard. It's also true vise versa, which is what actually happened in Legion - PvPers were forced into PvE to increase their ilvl.

The ilvl scaling in PvP was simply not strong enough and there is no way that Blizzard would've ever increased it to the point where it needed to be. Where it wouldn't have mattered if you had shit PvP gear with low ilvl or good PvE gear with high ilvl.

So yeah, the Legion system sucked.

--

On-Topic:

The reason we ended up here is almost purely a business driven decision.

A) It's meant to keep PvPers on the gearing treadmill for longer (in order to increase subscription revenue).
B) It's meant to add gambling in the form of lootboxes into PvP gear acquistion (getting us at least partly addicted to the gambling, thus keeping us subscribed).
C) It's meant to simplify getting PvErs into PvP (which they don't want to do anyway).
D) It's meant to force PvPers out into PvE so they will find the joy of PvE content (they don't, instead they quit the game).

Yeah, it backfired hard.