Let the Bailouts begin! First up, Boomers Pensions!

[Theodarzna]

Problem is, a lot of people confuse correlation and causation when it comes to policies implemented in the past. It's based on a kind of fallacious reasoning that we can generalize the past to determine what is optimal in the future, which is nonsense.

That is the most profoundly wrong thing ever. There is thus no point to memory or even recalling events from a day ago if you can't use the past to make any reasonable guess or prediction.

I return again to my assessment, your whole schtick is "We shouldn't do anything."

[Shadowferal]

Ex

Problem is, a lot of people confuse correlation and causation when it comes to policies implemented in the past. It's based on a kind of fallacious reasoning that we can generalize the past to determine what will be optimal in the future, which is nonsense.

Excusing ignorance?
I'd suggest letting us all know when the hell has that ever been ok but I'm sure you'd continue to show us what you know.

[Sunseeker]

I don't view capitalism as a system but just the absence of a dogmatic system. The growth of businesses to large corporate scales does change a lot though and I've no doubt that they do use a lot of loopholes and shenanigans to avoid their personal responsibilities.

I...don't care, becaus none of your point of view is relevant to the fact that the capitalism we have now is a fairly new system.

[PC2]

That is the most profoundly wrong thing ever. There is thus no point to memory or even recalling events from a day ago if you can't use the past to make any reasonable guess or prediction.

I return again to my assessment, your whole schtick is "We shouldn't do anything."

We most certainly cannot use the past to predict the future, if we could do that we would be in utopia because we could simply use projection to know how the future will unfold ahead of time. Instead we have to geuss about what 'new' knowledge and 'new' events will cause the future to be 'different' from the past.

You're a historian so it doesn't surprise me that you want to apply your knowledge to the future. Unfortunately the future is unpredictable in principle.

[Poopymonster]

In defense of said Boomers; they took jobs and contracts were signed promising this compensation. If said people ultimately don't get their pension than they were fundamentally cheated and lied to decades ago and worked for a promise that was ultimately broken.

Then they should do what any other citizen would do when someone breaks a legal contract. Sue them. Go through all the hurdles and hoops. Wonder what said contracts have as an arbitration clause if any? This could get really really expensive quickly.

[Toppy]

Then they should do what any other citizen would do when someone breaks a legal contract. Sue them. Go through all the hurdles and hoops. Wonder what said contracts have as an arbitration clause if any? This could get really really expensive quickly.

This stuff could and would be held up in court indefinitely. Or they'd just declare bankruptcy and get off scott free. The whole system is tailor made to let them do this.

[Poopymonster]

This stuff could and would be held up in court indefinitely. Or they'd just declare bankruptcy and get off scott free. The whole system is tailor made to let them do this.

You mean they'd be screwed by the very system their generation put in place? That system? I mean, they were cool with it.

[Toppy]

You mean they'd be screwed by the very system their generation put in place? That system? I mean, they were cool with it.

This is going to screw every generation. Badly. Irreversibly.

[Theodarzna]

We most certainly cannot use the past to predict the future, if we could do that we would be in utopia because we could simply use projection to know how the future will unfold ahead of time. Instead we have to geuss about what 'new' knowledge and 'new' events will cause the future to be 'different' from the past.

You're a historian so it doesn't surprise me that you want to apply your knowledge to the future. Unfortunately the future is unpredictable in principle.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It negates the entire purpose of education and knowing anything since knowledge of the past is important to orient where and when you are. It's predictive power is simply that events tend to happen multiple times. New events, truly new events, never really happen. And given your decision for ignorance of the past, than yes, all knowledge would appear new to you given you cannot recall or retain anything.

[Toppy]

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It negates the entire purpose of education and knowing anything since knowledge of the past is important to orient where and when you are. It's predictive power is simply that events tend to happen multiple times. New events, truly new events, never really happen. And given your decision for ignorance of the past, than yes, all knowledge would appear new to you given you cannot recall or retain anything.

You should be accustomed to this. Its the norm. This way of thinking.

[Daelak]

I argue that it should be the corporations that made the promises and from their assets the money drafted. Even if it obliterates the business, a deal is a deal.

As for public pensions, that is the same except that State's can simply get bailed out and spend forever so it doesn't matter.

Going forward, these organizations shouldn't make promises they have no intent of keeping.

And what political party and ideology have been against corporate accountability, worker protections, and regulations in the modern era?

[Machismo]

What exactly do you say to them so I can say the same thing too.

I tend to say they are socialists on welfare and complete fucking hypocrites.

The exact language varies.

[PC2]

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It negates the entire purpose of education and knowing anything since knowledge of the past is important to orient where and when you are. It's predictive power is simply that events tend to happen multiple times. New events, truly new events, never really happen. And given your decision for ignorance of the past, than yes, all knowledge would appear new to you given you cannot recall or retain anything.

No, the purpose of education is for people to learn *explanations* for why things happen. Knowledge never comes from inducing repeated observations to make a prediction, ever. If you have good predictive power on any subject it's because you have a good explanatory theory regarding the principles that cause events to happen and knowledge has literally nothing to do with generalizing historical data points.

[Shadowferal]

Wasn't one definition of insanity repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different result?

[PC2]

Plenty of people would like us to forget history, particularly the that big war we had and the lead up to it.

The point of learning from history is to learn about the bad 'explanations' that cause war and genocide. If we're to believe in the 'predictive' epistemology then we have to say that war is coming very soon, since if we're generalizing from historical data points on war the world should've had twice as much wars in the last 50 years and we're long overdue for a major world war any day now. Which obviously this predictive epistemology is total nonsense because whether or not we engage in world war is something that is within our control and we can prevent. We can refute the supposed inevitability of world war, that is, if we choose to.

[Theodarzna]

And what political party and ideology have been against corporate accountability, worker protections, and regulations in the modern era?

Which one would you say? I'd say the party that crafted and then the party that got NAFTA done is a good example.

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Plenty of people would like us to forget history, particularly the that big war we had and the lead up to it.

All of History lead up to a single War? Fascinating. Which War was it?

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No, the purpose of education is for people to learn *explanations* for why things happen. Knowledge never comes from inducing repeated observations to make a prediction, ever. If you have good predictive power on any subject it's because you have a good explanatory theory regarding the principles that cause events to happen and knowledge has literally nothing to do with generalizing historical data points.

This is a great way to write lots of words without saying things.

Historical precedent is the point. Things happen all the time, thus we can argue they continue to happen. To Negate that is to negate your earlier position that ascribes Capitalism an almost eternal aspect.

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You should be accustomed to this. Its the norm. This way of thinking.

Doesn't mean I won't rage against it.

[PC2]

All of History lead up to a single War? Fascinating. Which War was it?

I had assumed he was referring to the events of WW2.

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This is a great way to write lots of words without saying things.

Historical precedent is the point. Things happen all the time, thus we can argue they continue to happen. To Negate that is to negate your earlier position that ascribes Capitalism an almost eternal aspect.

That's a good way of putting it, yes that is my guess is that capitalism has an eternal aspect. Although I define capitalism as being synonymous with "freedom" which may be different from other peoples interpretation, which is fine.

Of course I could be wrong, it could be that some entirely new "system" we haven't thought up yet is the best system.

[Gaidax]

Yeah, I'll just have to remind some that you won't stay young forever.

This is just a foreshadowing of what you will be facing down the road and for every "why should this be my problem" remark, same one will be said about that person too down the road.

People who were promised in ink to have their asses covered for the work they do, need to have that promise honored otherwise this whole house of cards will get destroyed.

[Dontrike]

Yeah maybe people were bad at decision making and investing a hundred years ago but society and human beings improve over time. I refuse to believe that if we give people more agency over our lives that it's inevitable that we'll f*#k everything up.

You have way too much trust in people.

[Azadina]

You have way too much trust in people.

You have way too much faith in people

How so? You presume he trusts people to handle their own finances, rather than assuming he thinks of himself as great enough to handle his finances, and simply doesn't care how many millions would fail at managing theirs, as long as he gets what he wants. I guarantee you, the latter explanation is the way it is.