Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Yunru]

Still if they wanted this guy dead so much, i think it would still be better to hire a assasin to get rid of him, instead of using a whole airstrike.
Now they have a shitstorm due to this and its probaly that some countrys will even block US from trading due to aggresion.
Oil prices will go up for sure.

Going full imperialistic and showing power just makes other countrys to arm more. But maybe that was US goal? To sell more guns.

[Draco-Onis]

Not really, people in Iraq are still protesting against Iranian influence and they are still being killed for doing it.

They are doing both they don't want the US using their country as their target practice without their government's approval. Iraq is now actively asking the US to leave the US is saying no there is now a strong push to get us out.

[Puupi]

The lack of any comms from the plane post impact points to the missile having a much larger warhead than a SA-7/14/16/18/24/25.

https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000006369628.html (sorry only Finnish source this far)

The Iranians have confirmed it was shot down with a short range missile. They thought the plane was a cruise missile.

[ati87]

I mean, Pompeo is stepping into it because amateur hour White House is run by imbeciles.

The rationale for sending Soleimani to hell isn't on the things he probably, hypothetically would do one day. Of course he was planning shady terrorist shit. His entire job was to plan shit to advance Iran's interests since he was head of, you know, Iran's Chief Shady Terrorist Shit Government Agency. That's like saying "we killed the wolf because it may prey on the sheep". No shit. It's what wolfs do.

The right reason to kill Soleimani is because of shady terrorist shit he already did. In fact, that's why he should have gotten his one way ticket to the bad place 15 years ago. You killed the wolf because he killed sheep.

This White House can't message to save its life and it's hilarious. By chosing the route of nebulous "imminent threat" nonsense, Pompeo has to at best, stretch the truth. At worst outright lie. And he creates a situation where WHite House credibility - already basically worthless - somehow finds a new low because we have no reason to believe them due to their other performance failures, and if there is actual evidence hat there was a bonafied legitimate thread, they won't share it because it would likely endanger sources. So he boxed himself and the White House in by basically saying "trust me", even though only the Trumphadis Trust him.

By contrast, if they said "we gave him his long overdue vacation with Satan for shit he did previously"... what of it? Almost no one will die on that hill. Who is going to argue that Soleimani should live? No one. At worst, Europeans would be concerned about precedent and some Americans on the left would prick the Administration about the legal basis for doing it for a week... but because there is no win condition in fighting for Soleimani's supposed right-to-life, they'd soon give it up. Pompeo would just have to around saying "the world's a better place with this asshole dead, and he had it coming for a long time, and we took the shot. Message to America's enemies: we WILL catch up with you at a time and place of our choose."

But no. Now we're in the land of "what do words like 'imminent threat' mean".

Idiots.

But then just a week ago you were all to happy to use the imminent threat as a justification.
And no, just killing this guy because of his pass deeds would not have made it better.

Stupid idea's stay stupid regardless of the excuse you give, with the emphases on the word excuse.

[Gaidax]

But then just a week ago you were all to happy to use the imminent threat as a justification.
And no, just killing this guy because of his pass deeds would not have made it better.

Stupid idea's stay stupid regardless of the excuse you give, with the emphases on the word excuse.

Suleimani getting offed was a blessing like none other. That asshole is literally a mastermind of Yemen war, on his orders tens of thousands of people were killed, Iranians included, by the way. He worked tirelessly for 2 decades establishing various terror cells and proxies all around Middle East.

Suleimani has so much blood on his hands that there wouldn't be enough fuel in Hell for the pyre big enough to burn his ass for all the eternity, if hell was actually a thing.

He was literally that one guy that deserved what he got 10 times over and the only real regret is that he did not get it a decade ago, might have saved a couple of thousands of lives right there.

[Puupi]

Suleimani getting offed was a blessing like none other. That asshole is literally a mastermind of Yemen war, on his orders tens of thousands of people were killed, Iranians included, by the way. He worked tirelessly for 2 decades establishing various terror cells and proxies all around Middle East.

Suleimani has so much blood on his hands that there wouldn't be enough fuel in Hell for the pyre big enough to burn his ass for all the eternity, if hell was actually a thing.

He was literally that one guy that deserved what he got 10 times over and the only real regret is that he did not get it a decade ago, might have saved a couple of thousands of lives right there.

Maybe...

However, do you think killing him will change Iranian policies and plans considering the whole ME situation? There's always a new Suleimani right around the corner.

[Gaidax]

Maybe...

However, do you think killing him will change Iranian policies and plans considering the whole ME situation? There's always a new Suleimani right around the corner.

No it won't... much. Iran will still go on with Suleimani's plan of filling Middle East with proxy cells. But, Suleimani was really a huge key man there, so their efforts will at least hit a temporary snag.

Additionally, the benefit is that Iran will have to chill for a time being now, they really were getting bold as of late and in good part because they were handled with silk gloves - this is a first and really painful slap in their face and it will put a stop on their audacity for a time being.

So yes, all in all, very positive move by US for the ME as a whole.

- - - Updated - - -

All in all this operation had an excellent value, US has finally after all these years set a proper ground rules to what Iran can and can not do and did it at no cost really aside from that symbolic "retaliation" Iran did.

The only thing that puts a shadow on this otherwise great outcome is that passenger plane tragedy, but let's not be dumb and go ahead and blame US for that.

[Skroe]

But then just a week ago you were all to happy to use the imminent threat as a justification.
And no, just killing this guy because of his pass deeds would not have made it better.

Stupid idea's stay stupid regardless of the excuse you give, with the emphases on the word excuse.

Oh really?

Well I'm going to make you eat your words. Open wide. This from 1-05-2020.

Trump going with the “imminent attack” line, which was almost certainly a lie, is a terrible, terrible mistake that is setting his policy up for failure since its birth here.

A decapitation strike on Soleimani because of the embassy’s sacking is reason enough. That is the right message to send.

If he elects to pursue a fairy tale whereby the US used Cerebro and Professor X to peer into the minds Solemani and disrupt an attack that was imminent and only he knew about, Trump is opening himself up to international and domestic inquiries. Inquiries that will show he is at worst lying, at best exaggerating the urgency.

If that’s what happens, he deserves the firestorm that will come. Because the lesson or “attack our property and threaten our people and you die for it” is good enough.

Man you people are getting worse. You lose the policy argument so you make up lies about what I'm saying because you lost on the merits and can't stand Trump getting a mostly meaningless win for himself, and a solid win for the United States, even though it changes nothing. You can't help but be annoyed you're on the wrong side of something. Big whoop. Get used to it.

In a way, you deserve Trump. I can stand a lot of things. But the likes of you putting words in my mouth? Like hell. You dishonest people deserve other dishonest people inflicting misery on them. The damn shame is that decent people like the rest of us have to get caught in the middle.

Because here, @ati87, you elect to create a fairytale of your own, whereby a week ago I was, and I quote "all to happy to use the imminent threat as a justification". When in fact I said "imminent attack line is a lie, mistake and a message of retribution is enough." How are you different than what Trump does every day exactly? Oh that's right. You aren't. You're exactly the same.

So are you man enough to own your fuck up and apologize? Because that would be the first.

I do want to say something else. And I really want this to strike home. Three years of anti-Trump activity on my part. Unlike pretty much everyone else here (perhaps actually everyone else), it's been actually IRL. Three to four times a week at a PAC. Not to mention thousands of dollars in donations, including a big one to the DNC in December the day Trump was impeached. Some of you folks call internet fights over ideology "fighting Trump". It's horseshit. Most of you have done jack shit besides make yourselves feel better about a miserable situation. And the irony is, the strategic incompetence of Trump gets you going, and yet in wanting to take down said illegitimate President, we've seen nothing but display after display of strategic incompetence on your folks part. Like this hill to die on. You let him get under your skin. Routinely. And you pick stupid fights. Routinely.

I don't care that folks disagree with my position on these strikes. Everyone has that right. But it's quite clear to me now that more than a few anti-Trump people have indeed been hiding their "its a Republican President and I oppose him because he's a Republican president" ideological agenda behind a mask of recognition of Trump as a unique threat to our democracy. Some of you don't believe it anymore than you will the next Republican President. Or the last. Trump is truly no different to you people, except his trolling traits are maxed out.

I feel completely different. I'm as committed as ever to beat Trump in the fall and are planning on committing even more time IRL to that cause. Because I legitimately believe he is a unique threat to our democracy. That this is a once-in-a-lifetime storm. But what's become clear is how entirely non-serious some, perhaps many folks who have joined the anti-Trump brigade are in that effort and how that will give way to an ideological agenda at the first opportunity. You see Trump not as a threat, but as an opportunity to advance an agenda.

Folks who have to make up shit that people on their supposed side say, because it doesn't suit some kind of ideological conformity, in the fight against a unique threat like Trump, offer nothing to the fight against him and will play little role in seeing his backside. It's that simple. You, @ati87, have not won the battle of ideas. That will continue for the rest of both of our lives. So trying to score policy points in this fight against Trump is extraordinarily foolhardy because it distracts from the goal - and strategy - that actually matters.

Now @ati87, before you come up with some kind of snappy retort, dedicate the time to be useful for a change and actually do something about Trump rather than just whine about him on some godforsaken forum. I get to do that because since January 2017 I've been actively working with a group to undermine him, to considerable success. What the hell have you done? Have you done anything? Have any of you? And don't come at me with performing your basic civic duty and voting in 2018. That's weak sauce. 120 million people did that. Go volunteer. Go donate. Do something. But for the love of god, don't waste your life arguing if the United States and Trump were right to send an Iranian Intelligence Officer to Hell on the other side of a missile.

It's 2020. Time to come off the bench and fucking do something. Because if you don't, when Trump wins in November - and I give him a 60% chance of doing so - remember, when the time was there to fight, you didn't show up.

[Kellhound]

https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000006369628.html (sorry only Finnish source this far)

The Iranians have confirmed it was shot down with a short range missile. They thought the plane was a cruise missile.

The SA-15 has a warhead 10x the size of the one on a SA-18.

I guess the SAM crew was never told cruise missiles fly at very low altitudes and dont squawk Mode C.....

[Breccia]

@Skroe do you agree with Trump's NSA that the Iranians are more likely to negotiate now that Trump assassinated an Iranian general?

If "yes" please explain, because that doesn't sound right to me.

[Deadite]

@Skroe do you agree with Trump's NSA that the Iranians are more likely to negotiate now that Trump assassinated an Iranian general?

If "yes" please explain, because that doesn't sound right to me.

I guess they are sick of the carrot and now they are trying the stick. Could work.

[Kasierith]

@Skroe do you agree with Trump's NSA that the Iranians are more likely to negotiate now that Trump assassinated an Iranian general?

If "yes" please explain, because that doesn't sound right to me.

Before the airliner, probably not. Iran had massive international support due to what was perceived by most to be blatant extrajudicial murders of a foreign leader. The negotiating table affects not only their relationship with the US, but with the rest of the world. As a blank slate the idea that it reset deterrence is sound, but there was more at play than just that. It also undermines how they are maintaining support internally.. Iran has 40 years experience rallying support by setting the US as the enemy not only of the state, but of the people.

Blowing up the airliner of a third party (and from Ukraine of all places, just for a bit of extra sting) has switched that completely. The fire and fury approach they've taken to solidify domestic support has already completely fallen apart. Even if Pompeo fumbled addressing the affair from the US side, the entire dynamic of the foreign and domestic politicking around this entire subject has flipped overnight.

[Draco-Onis]

Before the airliner, probably not. Iran had massive international support due to what was perceived by most to be blatant extrajudicial murders of a foreign leader. The negotiating table affects not only their relationship with the US, but with the rest of the world. As a blank slate the idea that it reset deterrence is sound, but there was more at play than just that. It also undermines how they are maintaining support internally.. Iran has 40 years experience rallying support by setting the US as the enemy not only of the state, but of the people.

Blowing up the airliner of a third party (and from Ukraine of all places, just for a bit of extra sting) has switched that completely. The fire and fury approach they've taken to solidify domestic support has already completely fallen apart. Even if Pompeo fumbled addressing the affair from the US side, the entire dynamic of the foreign and domestic politicking around this entire subject has flipped overnight.

But the international community has proven that they don't matter period, they have been trying to provide Iran a reason to stay within the JCPOA but so far have failed because they are all scared of the USA. I hate to say this but in terms of negotiations nothing has changed we are still on the same path except now the US isn't fighting ISIS and the Iraqis want to kick us out and we have attacks incoming through Iran's usual proxies.

The international support would matter only if they had proven they were able to help Iran before they haven't.

- - - Updated - - -

@Skroe do you agree with Trump's NSA that the Iranians are more likely to negotiate now that Trump assassinated an Iranian general?

If "yes" please explain, because that doesn't sound right to me.

I think we established by the 10th contradictory reason they killed him that the Trump administration is desperately trying to spin this positively especially now with Iraq telling them GTFO. We are in a situation where we are basically going to be illegally occupying Iraq that could escalate with people protesting in the streets. In a twist of irony this might unite Sunni and Shia in Iraq against the US.

[jonnysensible]

Before the airliner, probably not. Iran had massive international support due to what was perceived by most to be blatant extrajudicial murders of a foreign leader. The negotiating table affects not only their relationship with the US, but with the rest of the world. As a blank slate the idea that it reset deterrence is sound, but there was more at play than just that. It also undermines how they are maintaining support internally.. Iran has 40 years experience rallying support by setting the US as the enemy not only of the state, but of the people.

Blowing up the airliner of a third party (and from Ukraine of all places, just for a bit of extra sting) has switched that completely. The fire and fury approach they've taken to solidify domestic support has already completely fallen apart. Even if Pompeo fumbled addressing the affair from the US side, the entire dynamic of the foreign and domestic politicking around this entire subject has flipped overnight.

this is nonsense.

Rouhani was elected promising to improve the lives of Iranians by making a deal with the rest of the world concerning its nuclear ambitions. He was then re-elected appealing to voters to trust that sanctions relief under the nuclear deal. His more hardline opponents warned against trusting the United States. They said the nuclear deal would weaken Iran and the USA couldnt be trusted to keep up its obligations. Both of which proved true. The drone strike was a nail in the coffin for negotiations.

The Parlimentry elections are in February, and the Presidential election is next year if you look at the polling Rouhani is not doing well. After 2021 any favourable change to Iranian policy will be completely out of reach. The hardline parties are going to get in and the Iran will persue the bomb, amplify its proxies and its attempts to control Iraq-Syria-Lebanon.

[Kasierith]

But the international community has proven that they don't matter period, they have been trying to provide Iran a reason to stay within the JCPOA but so far have failed because they are all scared of the USA. I hate to say this but in terms of negotiations nothing has changed we are still on the same path except now the US isn't fighting ISIS and the Iraqis want to kick us out and we have attacks incoming through Iran's usual proxies.

The international support would matter only if they had proven they were able to help Iran before they haven't.

International support isn't limited only to military aid. In terms of what would be most directly influential, it would be pushing back at America directly, bolstering support for a major non-interventionalist candidate on the Dems side like Sanders, as opposed to Trump or dems like Biden who would continue the pressure on Iran. Keep in mind that, strategically, the United States was winning Vietnam. International and domestic support against the toll inflicted by the war was what led to the US pulling out.

- - - Updated - - -

this is nonsense.

Rouhani was elected promising to improve the lives of Iranians by making a deal with the rest of the world concerning its nuclear ambitions. He was then re-elected appealing to voters to trust that sanctions relief under the nuclear deal. His more hardline opponents warned against trusting the United States. They said the nuclear deal would weaken Iran and the USA couldnt be trusted to keep up its obligations. Both of which proved true. The drone strike was a nail in the coffin for negotiations.

The Parlimentry elections are in February, and the Presidential election is next year if you look at the polling Rouhani is not doing well. After 2021 any favourable change to Iranian policy will be completely out of reach. The hardline parties are going to get in and the Iran will persue the bomb, amplify its proxies and its attempts to control Iraq-Syria-Lebanon.

You're talking about nuclear ambitions. The statement by the national security adviser was addressing direct and indirect military action, such as seizing ships and storming an American embassy. If you were to ask me if this would bring them back to negotiating no longer pursuing nuclear weapons, I would agree that it would not. That is a separate, if related, issue.

As for how popular the current administration is right now... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...nian-airliner/
Taking a hard line against the US at this point is not going to improve thing. Like I said above... the airliner fiasco completely screwed them. In fact, I would say that it was the single most significant diplomatic and political coup in decades for Iran.

[JohnBrown1917]

Before the airliner, probably not. Iran had massive international support due to what was perceived by most to be blatant extrajudicial murders of a foreign leader. The negotiating table affects not only their relationship with the US, but with the rest of the world. As a blank slate the idea that it reset deterrence is sound, but there was more at play than just that. It also undermines how they are maintaining support internally.. Iran has 40 years experience rallying support by setting the US as the enemy not only of the state, but of the people.

Blowing up the airliner of a third party (and from Ukraine of all places, just for a bit of extra sting) has switched that completely. The fire and fury approach they've taken to solidify domestic support has already completely fallen apart. Even if Pompeo fumbled addressing the affair from the US side, the entire dynamic of the foreign and domestic politicking around this entire subject has flipped overnight.

This will hardly change any opinions, NATO countries where already on the side of the US, People will ofcourse want justice, so Iran will probably go after who ever gave the order, add onto that it happend because of a faulty radar signal, it just seems like a lot people, including the government fucked up. But I doubt this all will bring anybody over to the American side, you don't need to side with the Americans to be against the Iranian gov. The only way to solve this without a huge war is for the Iranians to overthrow the gov without any western help.


But just like MH17, people really need to start looking at the airports and airliner companies that have no problems flying over warzones. But Iran was so much worse than MH17 in how idiotic it was to fly over it. Iran is at high alert because its about to go to war with the US, which could be the biggesr war of the decade, and you just fly over it? Heads need to roll at more places than in just Iran for this fuck up.

- - - Updated - - -

You're talking about nuclear ambitions. The statement by the national security adviser was addressing direct and indirect military action, such as seizing ships and storming an American embassy. If you were to ask me if this would bring them back to negotiating no longer pursuing nuclear weapons, I would agree that it would not. That is a separate, if related, issue.

The embassy was attacked by Iraqi citizens after the US bombed them again, that is all on the US itself. And no way will they give up nuclear weapons after what western countries did to Libya, nobody is that stupid.

[Kasierith]

This will hardly change any opinions, NATO countries where already on the side of the US, People will ofcourse want justice, so Iran will probably go after who ever gave the order, add onto that it happend because of a faulty radar signal, it just seems like a lot people, including the government fucked up. But I doubt this all will bring anybody over to the American side, you don't need to side with the Americans to be against the Iranian gov. The only way to solve this without a huge war is for the Iranians to overthrow the gov without any western help.

You are making it sound like it was a pure accident, not at all related to their escalated war readiness. In the process of preparing their systems for a US response, they increased the scope of what their systems would detect as a hostile force to the point where it could tag a domestic flight as a target. They had the power to shut down all flights at that point, which is what the correct thing to do would have been. They didn't, though.

I have no doubt that some low level officer and staff will become Iran's punching bags, though.

But just like MH17, people really need to start looking at the airports and airliner companies that have no problems flying over warzones. But Iran was so much worse than MH17 in how idiotic it was to fly over it. Iran is at high alert because its about to go to war with the US, which could be the biggesr war of the decade, and you just fly over it? Heads need to roll at more places than in just Iran for this fuck up.

I have no issue whatsoever pointing at the Iranian military and saying they did it, they are responsible for the deaths of nearly two hundred innocent people.

The embassy was attacked by Iraqi citizens after the US bombed them again, that is all on the US itself. And no way will they give up nuclear weapons after what western countries did to Libya, nobody is that stupid.

Intelligence reports appear consistent that Iran was involved, specifically with backing the group that orchestrated it. As for nuclear weapons, that... that's what I just said. Right there in the quote.

[Draco-Onis]

International support isn't limited only to military aid. In terms of what would be most directly influential, it would be pushing back at America directly, bolstering support for a major non-interventionalist candidate on the Dems side like Sanders, as opposed to Trump or dems like Biden who would continue the pressure on Iran. Keep in mind that, strategically, the United States was winning Vietnam. International and domestic support against the toll inflicted by the war was what led to the US pulling out.

But they haven't done any of that and unlike the past the regular American does not care about what the international support is Trump has the worst approval rating overseas in US history but he can still win the election. Again no one in the international community has shown any backbone when it comes to what the US is doing aside from wagging their fingers.

[Bryntrollian]

The embassy was attacked by Iraqi citizens after the US bombed them again, that is all on the US itself. And no way will they give up nuclear weapons after what western countries did to Libya, nobody is that stupid.

Kata'ib Hezbollah; the Iraq based, Iran backed militia group led by Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis. Designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization in 2007.

Here is a press release https://www.treasury.gov/press-cente...ges/tg195.aspx

Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis is an advisor to Qasem Soleimani, the commander of Iran's Qods Force, the arm of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) responsible for providing material support to Lebanon-based Hizballah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command. Further, the IRGC-Qods Force provides lethal support to Kata'ib Hizballah and other Iraqi Shia militia groups who target and kill Coalition and Iraqi Security Forces. The IRGC-Qods Force was named a Specially Designated Global Terrorist by the Treasury Department on October 25, 2007.

The U.S. Department of State also today designated Kata'ib Hizballah as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under Section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act and under section 1(b) of E.O. 13224 for committing or posing a significant risk of committing acts of terrorism.

[JohnBrown1917]

Kata'ib Hezbollah; the Iraq based, Iran backed militia group led by Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis. Designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization in 2007.

Here is a press release https://www.treasury.gov/press-cente...ges/tg195.aspx

Yeah, that reinforces my point.

Maybe don't bomb countries and while not expecting people to not fight back.