Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Combatbutler]

In retaliation for sacking an embassy, this is certainly not an overreaction. We can debate as to if it is wise but looking at these responses (beyond just yours), I don’t think folks grasp exactly how much of a big deal that is. In a world where that is normalized, international relations only happen at a distance.

Of course it is a big deal, since an attack on any embassy is an attack on that nations soil, yet you don't blow up a guy on an international airport on foreign soil in retaliation, that was clearly out of line, one could even argue it is essentially the same as sacking an embassy.

[Skroe]

Would you agree that China would be in the hypothetical right to launch an air strike against a major US international airport, to take down one of their enemies who was on US soil?

Because that's the equivalent, here.

Well let’s put aside that China already engages in widespread intelligence actions against its enemies in the Western world (especially exiles), the comparison you’re making is not legitimate because Iraq is again, Largely a stare with no control and power over its territory and affairs, while the US is the exact opposite.

The problem is you use the word “right”. In a better world, the Us would have no right to do this. Because as a sovereign state the US and Iraq are technically peers. But we do sadly live in a world might, if not making right, certainly opens doors.

China could try and do that, and it would suffer consequences because the might/right calculation is different. Is this fair? Nope. It’s also the way things are and we’ll be seeing a lot more of that as the world is cleaves to a US sphere, a China sphere and a weak international system between them.

[caervek]

The US had a right to react, you just overreacted plain and simple

Pretty much spot on, this was a huge overreaction/escalation hence the international condemnation.

I don't know if the Trump administration picked this guy at random to make an example or used the embassy demonstrations as an excuse to take out somebody they wanted gone. But if the former they couldn't have picked a worse target, this guy was a hero in the middle east, the guy who defeated ISIS, he will make a very dangerous martyr...

[Shadowferal]

This stinks of Putin...and likely why no one else knew what was going to happen.

[beanman12345]

Pretty much spot on, this was a huge overreaction/escalation hence the international condemnation.

I don't know if the Trump administration picked this guy at random to make an example or used the embassy demonstrations as an excuse to take out somebody they wanted gone. But if the former they couldn't have picked a worse target, this guy was a hero in the middle east, the guy who defeated ISIS, he will make a very dangerous martyr...

No way they killed this guy at random. They knew what they were doing.

[Skroe]

Of course it is a big deal, since an attack on any embassy is an attack on that nations soil, yet you don't blow up a guy on an international airport on foreign soil in retaliation, that was clearly out of line, one could even argue it is essentially the same as sacking an embassy.

I just plainly disagree with that. I think it’s a measured response. An alternative is killing every single person in the Iranian militia that stepped foot in it.

Like what is a measured response to something so brazen in your eyes? What would it look like? More sanctions? A deftly crafted Obamaesque letter about our values? Do we just sack their embassy? This was as tightly aimed as possible. It’s almost like folks want no response whatsoever.

[Kaleredar]

2000 IQ maneuvers bro. Turnips plans cant be understood by mere mortals.

We’re all over here playing checkers; trump’s the kid in the corner shoving all the chess pieces up his nose. We never stood a chance.

[Combatbutler]

This stinks of Putin...and likely why no one else knew what was going to happen.

Might be, after all the US just decided to meddle in european energy politics, to sell their fracking products, then again it also fits american hot head politics.

I just plainly disagree with that. I think it’s a measured response. An alternative is killing every single person in the Iranian militia that stepped foot in it.

Like what is a measured response to something so brazen in your eyes? What would it look like? More sanctions? A deftly crafted Obamaesque letter about our values? Do we just sack their embassy? This was as tightly aimed as possible. It’s almost like folks want no response whatsoever.

You do this shit like any other nation, in the fucking shadows, as silent as possible, with as little strings attached as possible in order to avoid giving the other side ammunition for their cause, in order to avoid a war. As I said you created a fucking martyr and it will cost the US one way or another.

[Endus]

Well let’s put aside that China already engages in widespread intelligence actions against its enemies in the Western world (especially exiles), the comparison you’re making is not legitimate because Iraq is again, Largely a stare with no control and power over its territory and affairs, while the US is the exact opposite.

"Fuck you, try and stop us" isn't the moral high ground you think it is.

[Edge-]

"Fuck you, try and stop us" isn't the moral high ground you think it is.

I don't think he's claiming it is a moral high ground. Just a reality.

[caervek]

This wasn't protestors setting up outside the embassy.

This was attacking the embassy, forcing their way in, sacking it, and setting fire to part of it.

Out of interest what do you think Iraq should have done about it? Because firing on aggressive protesters worked out awesomely for Ukraine/Libya/Syria didn't it.

And I'm not arguing that the response against Iran needed to be immense.

Why did there need to be any response against Iran? the protesters were Iraqis ****ed off that the US had just bombed their country and killed Iraqi fighters just because the US didn't like the country helping them.

I'm not saying the Iraqis should have rioted at the embassy, but two wrongs obviously didn't make a right so what made people think three wrongs would...

[Skroe]

Might be, after all the US just decided to meddle in european energy politics, to sell their fracking products, then again it also fits american hot head politics.



You do this shit like any other nation, in the fucking shadows, as silent as possible, with as little strings attached as possible in order to avoid giving the other side ammunition for their cause, and to avoid a war. as I said you created a fucking martyr and it will cost the US one way or another.

I strongly disagree. To rebuild conventional deterrence, this needed to be very loud. And sure enough it was.

You can question the existence of any overall strategy. I do. But this is a message that was very overdue. And there needs to be more of it. In Eastern Europe versus Russia. In the Pacific with China. Detterence must be refortified and everyone must know it.

- - - Updated - - -

"Fuck you, try and stop us" isn't the moral high ground you think it is.

There is no moral high ground here. I’m certainly not claiming it. We can do that in other cases. Rebuilding all of America’s crossed red lines and restoring deterrence will be done in blood, not through moral high grounds. This is not a moment to respect American leadership. It’s a moment to fear its power and resolve.

And that is why international outcry is meaningless. Because this isn’t about pleasing the rest of the world. It’s about scaring it a little. That’s the entire damn point.

[beanman12345]

I strongly disagree. To rebuild conventional deterrence, this needed to be very loud. And sure enough it was.

You can question the existence of any overall strategy. I do. But this is a message that was very overdue. And there needs to be more of it. In Eastern Europe versus Russia. In the Pacific with China. Detterence must be refortified and everyone must know it.

.

I'm curious what you think killing this beloved general who now most certainly will become a martyr in his country is going to deter.

[Stelio Kontos]

Why did there need to be any response against Iran? the protesters were Iraqis ****ed off that the US had just bombed their country and killed Iraqi fighters just because the US didn't like the country helping them.

I'm not saying the Iraqis should have rioted at the embassy, but two wrongs obviously didn't make a right so what made people think three wrongs would...

Most of the "protesters" were Shi'ite militiamen armed, trained, and backed by Iran. They're essentially a proxy army for Iran, and this guy was the architect of Iran's proxy force system. So, Iranian-backed militias stormed part of a US embassy. That requires a response, and rather than kill hundreds, or thousands, of Iraqis forcefully clearing a safe zone around the embassy, they instead took a measured strike against the mastermind of the attack. It's pretty clear-cut.

[jonnysensible]

don't do graffiti on the embassy or you'll get bapped. Its like when a drug dealer gets slotted with a gun and people moan, he played the game and he lost. Soleimani, Quds Force and the Iranian regime are cynical murderers. But I doubt there was much plan to this. The designation of the IRGC a few months back was a hint i suppose but it reeks of tactic not strategy.

I suspect he was in Iraq to pick a new PM. Someone has made the calculation that hes worth more dead than alive, trump hinted when the drone was downed about hitting troops. Iran will respond with proxies and thier own detterence. Iraq is about to get messy. I think Sadr has been in Iran for ages now lol.

If I was Iran I'd do what Russia did/is doing and feed the accelerationists in the USA while hitting the US with proxies in saudi/lebanon/iraq and beyond. It will play out over years no flashes in the pan, Irans main goal is its own survival it will save face but not be silly.

Theres talk of 170 or so MPs putting legislation to boot the US out of Iraq, but I doubt that will happen too much free cash still about, gotta buy that penthouse in dubai. Be suprised if the embassy isnt forced to close however.

anyway time for the joke 'Saddam was a bad guy and we're better off with him dead'

[Skroe]

I'm curious what you think killing this beloved general who now most certainly will become a martyr in his country is going to deter.

On its own? Little. As part of a broader strategy to rebuild conventional deterrence? Everyone. That’s my issue with this. I question the existence of that strategy. But the Us needs to be knocking off guys like this. Loudly. Publicly. It needs to frustrate China in the South China Sea. It needs to extract a cost on the Russians.

Our enemies have spent a decade or more walking brazenly over long standing red lines to find no consequences. We need to rebuild all those red lines by doing things exactly like this. And when generals start to wonder if there is a us drone watching their home, and factoring that Into their decisions, we will have restored deterrence.

[caervek]

Most of the "protesters" were Shi'ite militiamen armed, trained, and backed by Iran.

O.o

What the hell is FOX news showing you guys at the moment? Because you're not the first US poster I've seen try to peddle the protesters/demonstrators being super secret Iranian agents :S

I mean here's a legit news article on it:

The US embassy in the Iraqi capital Baghdad has been targeted by Iraqi protesters angered by recent US air strikes on the base of an Iraqi militia that was backed by Iran. US forces are believed to have used tear gas to disperse the crowds, who managed to breach an outer wall of the compound.

Are you guys getting it like this or something? lol:

The US embassy in the terrorist stronghold of Baghdad has been nuked by commie terrorists lead by the ghost of Bin Laden who was angered by America being so awesome. US forces are believed to have used their giant dicks to disperse the army, who managed to break into the building and rape everybody.

[Draco-Onis]

There is no moral high ground here. I’m certainly not claiming it. We can do that in other cases. Rebuilding all of America’s crossed red lines and restoring deterrence will be done in blood, not through moral high grounds. This is not a moment to respect American leadership. It’s a moment to fear its power and resolve.

And that is why international outcry is meaningless. Because this isn’t about pleasing the rest of the world. It’s about scaring it a little. That’s the entire damn point.

Respect? how? we've just set a precedence you can now target heads of state in foreign countries without their approval even when they are allies.

[jonnysensible]

caevek the lads at the embassy were Kata'ib Hezbollah lol.

[Combatbutler]

I strongly disagree. To rebuild conventional deterrence, this needed to be very loud. And sure enough it was.

You can question the existence of any overall strategy. I do. But this is a message that was very overdue. And there needs to be more of it. In Eastern Europe versus Russia. In the Pacific with China. Detterence must be refortified and everyone must know it.

The US just loves to play with fire and for my own amusement I hope it gets burned one of these days. Though that might be sad day for the world.

Respect? how? we've just set a precedence you can now target heads of state in foreign countries without their approval even when they are allies.

You imply the US actually has respect for their allies. They are tools