I saw the N'zoth cinematic, really disappointed

[Engal]

There is still Xalatath roaming freely.

The old gods threat is not over yet.

[Shakana]

But even that's not the case. Following that logic, the Void Lords are an even bigger villain because they created N'Zoth.

Kil'jaeden was an even bigger villain too, since he basically kickstarted the events of the RTS series and the TBC and Legion expansions.

The void lords are the biggest threat. But they can't just access to the physical world so they hurled sleeping Old Gods out into the Twisting Nether, intent on seeding them into worlds like Azeroth. Worlds with slumbering Titan Souls. Once embedded onto these sleeping worlds the Old Gods would then corrupt them from the inside out, seeking to create Dark Titans that the Void Gods could then wage their celestial wars with.

[mickybrighteyes]

Vashj'ir? The capture of Neptulon? The Tidestone? Tomb of Sargeras?

Literally what are you talking about? Any time there was nagas, that was Azshara/N'zoth sending them there, besides maybe the few Illidan bossed around. And if you're going to try to say naga weren't a major threat, I don't know what more to say.

Are you assuming the naga are a hive mind extension of N'zoth's will. I will argue this is like saying mortals actions are an extension of the titan's.


edit:

Vashj'ir was also not naga acting against us directly but faction war derailed in the unknown. Neptulon was a side plot stumbled upon. Tide stone was bickering over a relic/super weapon... which continued on into the tomb.

We, the player factions haven't really been squared off against direct confrontation with naga formally since TBC when dealing with Vashj and their ties to Illidan.

[Shakana]

There is still Xalatath roaming freely.

The old gods threat is not over yet.

I yet still don't know what Xa'latath is. I think it's a forgotten old god. Tbh the name reminds me a lot of a Dark Naaru.

[Jester Joe]

Are you assuming the naga are a hive mind extension of N'zoth's will. I will argue this is like saying mortals actions are an extension of the titan's.

Literally every single naga talks about "The Will of Azshara!" or praises Azshara in some way, and almost all of them reference being there because she ordered it.

Nowhere did I say anything about being a "hive mind extension of N'zoth".

But N'zoth is the reason they're even all still around, and Azshara was taking her orders from N'zoth.

And why does "directness" matter?
We went to Hyjal and just happened to stumble upon Ragnaros.

[ChairmanKaga]

Though I find it stupid if his plan was always to "die", because it sounds like such a silly plan, but regardless the build-up is there.

If they ultimately use "it was my plan all along to be killed" that comes accross as hokey but if it's more like "I plan multiple contingencies/options" that would seem more long game in character.

[mickybrighteyes]

Literally every single naga talks about "The Will of Azshara!" or praises Azshara in some way, and almost all of them reference being there because she ordered it.

And as I recall... Azshara was also doing azshara's will. Not the will of N'zoth....

And why does "directness" matter?

If we're discussing major relevance to plot, it matters... unless we want to attribute every single element of every precipitating event as well. Do we want to also lay the stonebuilder uprising at N'zoth as well since it was clearly the result of infighting by the nobles instigated by Prestor manipulataion aka Deathwing?

We went to Hyjal and just happened to stumble upon Ragnaros.

alright fine... N'zoth is the retroactively revealed mysterious leader that was never acknowledged prior with a hand on literally every story ever told... we just never knew his name but his form flittered through our nightmares stealing away every comfort.

[Jester Joe]

And as I recall... Azshara was also doing azshara's will. Not the will of N'zoth....

This is really nitpicking, and you know it.

Azshara has been serving under N'zoth since he transformed her into a naga. All her actions were ones for him.
Did she plan on betraying him or not truly helping him in the end, sure. But she was still serving directly under him.

Any orders given by Azshara were to eventually lead into freeing N'zoth, and that was she was ordered to do.

If we're discussing major relevance to plot, it matters... unless we want to attribute every single element of every precipitating event as well. Do we want to also lay the stonebuilder uprising at N'zoth as well since it was clearly the result of infighting by the nobles instigated by Prestor manipulataion aka Deathwing?

You're just nitpicking to the extreme to try to justify saying that N'zoth isn't one of the biggest villains.

alright fine... N'zoth is the retroactively revealed mysterious leader that was never acknowledged prior with a hand on literally every story ever told... we just never knew his name but his form flittered through our nightmares stealing away every comfort.

This is just silly at this point and you're not making any actual points.

[mickybrighteyes]

This is really nitpicking, and you know it.

sure...

Azshara has been serving under N'zoth since he transformed her into a naga. All her actions were ones for him.
Did she plan on betraying him or not truly helping him in the end, sure. But she was still serving directly under him.

Really? seems like she was being a queen running her shit as she pleased.

Any orders given by Azshara were to eventually lead into freeing N'zoth, and that was she was ordered to do.

k.

You're just nitpicking to the extreme to try to justify saying that N'zoth isn't one of the biggest villains.

I'm more of the opinion that he is a recent lore revelation propped up on top with a lot of loose ends made to be known it was running things. Sweet. sure everything bad somehow lead to back to it regardless of our awareness of it as a feature.

This is just silly at this point and you're not making any actual points.

oh no... I was only agreeing about how big a deal this previous no name entity... that wasn't even a foot note in other characters overall story until far after their established stories ran their course... really is.

Or maybe I should put a [sarcasm] tag on that post for all it matters.

[Bosen]

If you think about it,he was really powerful compared to us in Vanilla,but we've collectively become pretty powerful ourselves and had a hell of a lot of help from historical characters.

[Muajin76]

What if..there was someone controlling N'zoth?

[Starfals]

Yea, just like Sargeras... its a pretty big fail in my book. Oh well.

[Lurker1]

I wasn't op your reaching here.

[Tech614]

Without N'zoth there would be no Deathwing. No Azshara. That's already two huge villains.

Both where pretty much ass pulls though as both existed before N'Zoth did in the story.

Prior to LK blizzard had no idea what they where doing in regards to "old gods" or how many there was or their names. LK and Chronicles basically created all their lore, meanwhile deathwing and azshara existed before WoW.

[LostSinclair]

N'zoth was always said to be the weakest of the old gods but given all of the blizz double talk when asked about old gods and them "dying" I'm fairly certain we have not seen the last of them. In fact I'm still fairly confident that 10.0 will be our dragon/old god/black empire expansion unless they pull a major surprise in shadowlands.

[Jastall]

He is weaker than C'thun and Yogg-saron and we dealt with those the patch they were introduced, so why would the weakest of the old gods get a massive fanfare?

I dunno. People expect villains to last forever and be fought half a dozen times or something. Warcraft borrows enough terrible storytelling techniques from comic books, no need to also have villains that never, ever die so they can milk them more. One Sylvanas is more than enough, thank you very much.

N'zoth had his time in the spotlight, he engineered several important events, has two boss fights in a row and gets destroyed by a weapon meant to erase all life on the planet. That's already loads better than C'thun and Yogg-Saron, who were relevant for all of one patch before dying to sticks and bows, or Y'shaarj who was dead thousands of years ago and got the last of his essence drained by an Orc with anger issues.

Yeah, raid bosses die when their HP reaches 0. Who knew.

[Sluvs]

Yeah, yeah, nzoth was the weakest of the crew, but he was the one behinf azshara, deathwing and many other event in WoW history, while he lacks in power he compensates in his scheming. So, if this turns out to be his real demise, this will be incredibly anti climatic. Say what you will, but nzoth has been hyped up for a while now, and it will be a shame to see him go without any fanfare whatsoever.

[Tech614]

I dunno. People expect villains to last forever and be fought half a dozen times or something. Warcraft borrows enough terrible storytelling techniques from comic books, no need to also have villains that never, ever die so they can milk them more. One Sylvanas is more than enough, thank you very much.

N'zoth had his time in the spotlight, he engineered several important events, has two boss fights in a row and gets destroyed by a weapon meant to erase all life on the planet. That's already loads better than C'thun and Yogg-Saron, who were relevant for all of one patch before dying to sticks and bows, or Y'shaarj who was dead thousands of years ago and got the last of his essence drained by an Orc with anger issues.

Yeah, raid bosses die when their HP reaches 0. Who knew.

I'm not even sure why people make such a big hoopla about N'Zoth to begin with. Usually you see this when people have some nolstagic connection to an iconic character like an Illidan or Azshara. But N'Zoth is just some random peon the Void Lords flung at the planet who's entire lore was mostly written in a post Lich King world. He's never really interacted with players before prior to this xpac why the hell are people so obsessed with him like hes such a deeply important character?

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Yeah, yeah, nzoth was the weakest of the crew, but he was the one behinf azshara, deathwing and many other event in WoW history, while he lacks in power he compensates in his scheming. So, if this turns out to be his real demise, this will be incredibly anti climatic. Say what you will, but nzoth has been hyped up for a while now, and it will be a shame to see him go without any fanfare whatsoever.

Deathwing and Azshara predate N'Zoth even being written into the lore. The fact blizzard wrote him in later to say "IT WAS ME GUYZ, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG" doesn't magically make him that important.

[Shakana]

This is really nitpicking, and you know it.

Azshara has been serving under N'zoth since he transformed her into a naga. All her actions were ones for him.
Did she plan on betraying him or not truly helping him in the end, sure. But she was still serving directly under him.

Any orders given by Azshara were to eventually lead into freeing N'zoth, and that was she was ordered to do.

She is regardless of her intentions, indeed, a villain.

She wants to be a Queen and show her "immense" power, and "what she can do best". She doesn't care for us, as she doesn't really care about N'zoth, she wants to be free and keep the Queen of her people, no matter what are the circumstances.

She did all she can, even before transformed to make sure her people would not die. So she said yes that she would conquer his enemies only if he let her people be with her. Now it's a bit misguiding on the warbringer cinematic seems like she has some kind of friendship with N'zoth when he says "ARISE AZSHARA! ARISE MY QUEEN!" after being transformed. But deep down she has always felt she is destined to be a queen and N'zoth ain't taking that from her.

In the end everything went according to her plan, she indeed has set him free.

I don't see her joining us anytime too still. I think Azshara was knocked out in the end of the raid and not dead. Just defeated. N'zoth shows up to save her from us, she is still his Queen, as she has shown him that even getting knocked out by players her plan went successful.

She is still not going to be "good", she is still a villain. She wants to earn her freedom without N'zoth to "attack her". And she can't really be totally free if N'zoth is imprisoned and not dead as he is more powerful than her.

[Sluvs]

I'm not even sure why people make such a big hoopla about N'Zoth to begin with. Usually you see this when people have some nolstagic connection to an iconic character like an Illidan or Azshara. But N'Zoth is just some random peon the Void Lords flung at the planet who's entire lore was mostly written in a post Lich King world. He's never really interacted with players before prior to this xpac why the hell are people so obsessed with him like hes such a deeply important character?

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Deathwing and Azshara predate N'Zoth even being written into the lore. The fact blizzard wrote him in later to say "IT WAS ME GUYZ, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG" doesn't magically make him that important.

Except it literally does that. Just because those villains were written first, it does not mean that they are more important. That makes no sense.