[Breaking News] US base in Iraq struck by Iranian and Iraqi militia missiles.

[Breccia]

As for defense mechanisms, I would really not count on them to be effective in this case

I expect their defense mechanisms to be "if the US even blinks, fire a dozen more rockets at the oil refineries where US troops are stationed".

That meeting with Trump yesterday that Trump didn't announce? I think it's safe to assume Trump has called upon SA to help. It's not like Iran will be making a new enemy.

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its from the guy who campaigned on carpet bombing and nuking the middle east, so dont expect diplomacy

It's complicated.

For one, nobody on these forums expected successful diplomacy.

For two, yes he campaigned on hating Muslims and calling them terrorists.

But for three, he also said he's get us out of war in the Middle East, and said Clinton would start one. Trump is a bully, and threatened people with force he didn't really plan to use on people capable of hitting back very hard.

It's a special kind of irony that someone who campaigned on and ran on promises of violence and hatred is actually about to break a campaign promise based on the situation. But then, when someone promises multiple contradictory things, well, what else could possibly happen?

[StillMcfuu]

Iraq has made it abundantly clear they want nothing to do with us. And they made that clear before Iran started firing missiles.

Kuwait might donate some money.

I haven't the foggiest what Lebanon would do, but I'm not sure what kind of message we'd give by receiving their help anyhow.

I mentioned it earlier, but Iraq isn't that cut and dry. Much like the US's political lines, Iraq cuts along Shia and Sunni/Kurd lines. The Shia side is the "vocal" side right now that made the vote, but they aren't the totality of the country, Sunni/Kurd side didn't even get involved. Soleimani wasn't very well liked by the Sunni/Kurd side. Iran is 95% Shia, so we can see why the Iraq Shia are as vocal as they are.

This is actually the main difficulty of the Middle East, everything is cut along these cultural lines, but the borders of the countries are not.

[Kellhound]

I expect their defense mechanisms to be "if the US even blinks, fire a dozen more rockets at the oil refineries where US troops are stationed".

That meeting with Trump yesterday that Trump didn't announce? I think it's safe to assume Trump has called upon SA to help. It's not like Iran will be making a new enemy.

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It's complicated.

For one, nobody on these forums expected successful diplomacy.

For two, yes he campaigned on hating Muslims and calling them terrorists.

But for three, he also said he's get us out of war in the Middle East, and said Clinton would start one. Trump is a bully, and threatened people with force he didn't really plan to use on people capable of hitting back very hard.

It's a special kind of irony that someone who campaigned on and ran on promises of violence and hatred is actually about to break a campaign promise based on the situation. But then, when someone promises multiple contradictory things, well, what else could possibly happen?

No matter how hard Iran can hit the US, the US can hit back far harder, and that is something Trump is going to make sure the world knows. It will be yet another case of the US military winning a tactical victory while Washington leadership suffers a strategic defeat.....

[Flower Milk]

Well, Raytheon stock should be going up soon. They can expect a big order for replacement TLAMs after the US responds to this....

I'm sure it's just a total coincidence that our current acting Secretary of Defense was a Raytheon lobbyist before taking the job...

[Breccia]

No matter how hard Iran can hit the US, the US can hit back far harder

Well that sounds just like Afghanistan.

And Iraq. Both times.

And I think we had help all three times. This time...I don't see anyone in the EU helping out.

[Ianus]

finally someone that will put cowboys in their place.. cowboys think they can do whatever they want without consequences.. i can bet that russia and china will pseudoproxy support iran

[Kellhound]

Well that sounds just like Afghanistan.

And Iraq. Both times.

And I think we had help all three times. This time...I don't see anyone in the EU helping out.

The US is more than capable of decimating the Iranian military and military-industrial complex by itself. The US did gain clear tactical success in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but the civilian leadership of the US has been 100% incapable of producing a strategic success no matter who is in office.

[Ianus]

No matter how hard Iran can hit the US, the US can hit back far harder, and that is something Trump is going to make sure the world knows. It will be yet another case of the US military winning a tactical victory while Washington leadership suffers a strategic defeat.....

stop being cheerleader and look it rationally if russia/china gets involved you are fucked because russians have supersonic rockets that can hit anything and you cant do nothing cause your rocket shield is out of date.. most vulnerable are airplane carriers in persian gulf and that could be experiment to see how rocket works.. if us tries to invade iran

[starlord]

The US is more than capable of decimating the Iranian military and military-industrial complex by itself. The US did gain clear tactical success in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but the civilian leadership of the US has been 100% incapable of producing a strategic success no matter who is in office.

they don't want to "succeed"... they want to keep the tax money rolling in. at that they have been wildly successful.

[Breccia]

if russia/china gets involved you are fucked

What you're describing is World War III.

If that happens, everyone gets fucked.

[Kellhound]

stop being cheerleader and look it rationally if russia/china gets involved you are fucked because russians have supersonic rockets that can hit anything and you cant do nothing cause your rocket shield is out of date.. most vulnerable airplane carriers and that could be experiment to see how rocket works.. if us tries to invade

Russia will not give up its handful of useful missiles to a losing cause, and China is not going to risk a war with the US over anything less than Taiwan or total control of the SCS.

[Ianus]

What you're describing is World War III.

If that happens, everyone gets fucked.

not really cause russia doesnt even need to use nukes their conventional rockets are superior in last 10 years they surpassed US in ballistic weapons.. and i am not even russian fan

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Russia will not give up its handful of useful missiles to a losing cause, and China is not going to risk a war with the US over anything less than Taiwan or total control of the SCS.

they could just give rockets to iran to test them

[Kallisto]

As much as I don't want the UK to be dragged into the mess, I suppose it's inevitable that we will be.

The UK right now is still in a mess military wise. Too many basically disbanding of essential ships and other military assets long before their replacements were ready has left the UK in a bad spot. We can't afford to get involved.

[StillMcfuu]

Russia will not give up its handful of useful missiles to a losing cause, and China is not going to risk a war with the US over anything less than Taiwan or total control of the SCS.

With the news of the Ukrainian plane going down, if it winds up being an Iranian caused incident, I think Russia would be against Iran.

Russia has spent the last 3 years convincing the world that Ukraine just wants to be apart of Russia again. They would be wise to treat those onboard as if they were Russian citizens.

[Ianus]

Trump made really dumb mistake.. i knew he was rash but this is just dumb period..

[Kellhound]

not really cause russia doesnt even need to use nukes their conventional rockets are superior in last 10 years they surpassed US in ballistic weapons.. and i am not even russian fan

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they could just give rockets to iran to test them

1. Russian missiles have not had a good combat record.
2. Russia would not risk giving Iran access to cutting edge offensive weapons knowing they would be used against the US.

[Breccia]

Hey remember when Trump said Clinton would start WW3 over Syria, because it would drag in Russia and Iran?

Too bad, I'm linking it anyhow.

You're going to end up in World War Three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton.

You're not fighting Syria any more, you're fighting Syria, Russia and Iran, all right?

Russia is a nuclear country, but a country where the nukes work as opposed to other countries that talk.

What we should do is focus on IS. We should not be focusing on Syria.

Hmm.

And yes, we did recently discuss how Trump stopped attacks on ISIL to focus on Iran.

Trump is doing what he accused others of doing. Whether Clinton have attacked Syria, or Iran, or started WW3 is not relevant and is an invalid defense against Trump's actions. The fact that he is a lying warmonger, by contrast, is relevant, but it is not possible to defend Trump with anything other than hypocrisy. Unless you just happened to be someone who said "I want to vote for Trump, but I would prefer another war in the Middle East or even WW3, not his no-war policy". They're the only people who can defend Trump without being hypocrites.

[cubby]

OK, serious question asking time.

@cubby and others, can Congress hold back further military powers from Dump at this point - even if this attack resulted in American casualties? What can we do to stop Dumbass Donnie from getting the power he needs to do the ultimate stupid?

In my opinion, no, they cannot directly hold it back. While Congress holds the War Powers Clause, the laws have never been tested in court, precisely because neither party wanted to be limited if it was their turn in the saddle.

[Ianus]

1. Russian missiles have not had a good combat record.
2. Russia would not risk giving Iran access to cutting edge offensive weapons knowing they would be used against the US.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6341692/r...n-operational/

[PACOX]

Russia will not give up its handful of useful missiles to a losing cause, and China is not going to risk a war with the US over anything less than Taiwan or total control of the SCS.

I don't they post you replied to is overestimating Russian hardware but but Russia's involvement wouldn't be direct.

Russian hardware would miraculously find its way to Iran. There would be a lot of 'Russian tourists and trainers' hanging around Russian bases.

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With the news of the Ukrainian plane going down, if it winds up being an Iranian caused incident, I think Russia would be against Iran.

Russia has spent the last 3 years convincing the world that Ukraine just wants to be apart of Russia again. They would be wise to treat those onboard as if they were Russian citizens.

Russia only cares about a quarter of Ukraine.