8.3 looks damn sweet

[Rinnegan2]

Wildly incorrect

- 11k posts

- this statement

- meanwhile only a few of the best players in the game have solo'd 5 masks

[prwraith]

- 11k posts

- this statement

- meanwhile only a few of the best players in the game have solo'd 5 masks

Yes let's compare post counts.../omegaeyeroll

Also acting like visions only count if you solo them /additionalomegaeyeroll

[Sharby]

I did the Mage Tower first day and first try as well.


But I still think the MT was better because getting tickets wasn't timegated.




On top of this the reward from MT is something I still use to this day on a ton of alts. MT was also extremely alt-friendly and near the end of Legion I did like 20 of them on FRESH alts.


IDK what cosmetics are gained from visions but I doubt its on part with weapon skins; on top of this an alt isn't doing mask run anytime soon because its gated to prevent you from doing so.


Shit's lame as hell.


EDIT: What they should do to make visions better is remove passive sanity drain and increase the drain from eating mechanics. That way alts from skilled players can still go far.

[prwraith]

Umm, isn't the essentially the recipe for every aspect of PvE in this game?

Totally true, but if you miss one here / misjudge one it's not a run killer. Not even close. Whereas some of the magetower ones, anything missed was an insta-wipe.

And at this point we're not even at max corruption resist. It's only going to get easier as time goes on haha.

[Yunaqt]

Totally true, but if you miss one here / misjudge one it's not a run killer. Not even close. Whereas some of the magetower ones, anything missed was an insta-wipe.

And at this point we're not even at max corruption resist. It's only going to get easier as time goes on haha.

Same with the mage towers though I guess, they follow the same trend. I remember doing my alt prot pallies one late and it was an absolute joke (1 shot) due to ilvl just continuously climbing + the addition of the crucible traits pseudo nerfing the content till BFA. I can't speak for all the MTs as I didn't do them all, only alts I played which were all druid ones, every healer one, ele and all the locks. Only one's I did super early were the healer one's and the guardian druids.

[Zyky]

Try to solo the visions with 5-masks, without talents. See how well that goes for you. If you're after the challenge, this is far and away beyond what the mage tower was.

Nobody is going to do it "without talents" because it was DESIGNED TO BE DONE WITH TALENTS. What kind of idiotic comment is that. Visions are a joke compared to Mage Tower bottom line.

[Penegal]

Nobody is going to do it "without talents" because it was DESIGNED TO BE DONE WITH TALENTS. What kind of idiotic comment is that. Visions are a joke compared to Mage Tower bottom line.

If you read what I responded to, you will understand.

Please, enlighten me how the mage tower is so hard that the joke of a challenge that are visions cannot compare. Fact of the matter is that I have a friend who got 36/36 mage tower and yet he was unable to dodge axes on the council boss in kings rest to the point he ragequit the run.

[Gaidax]

Visions have almost no mechanics to be aware of, or that are at all punishing. even with several masks on it's a straight up DPS / interrupt / don't stand in bad. If you think it's harder than I am concerned about you as a player.

It's harder because you can make it harder - much harder and more complex than Mage Tower ever was.

Your precious Mage Tower challenge revolved around 2-3 mechanical gimmicks that you simply trained yourself to do and that's it - done and gone in frikkin' couple of tries. You could train a bloody monkey to do that shit - 0 variance ever - just script your brain to beat scripted shit down to the second.

[Rinnegan2]

Also acting like visions only count if you solo them

they do as long as we compare them to mage tower

[Penegal]

Visions have almost no mechanics to be aware of, or that are at all punishing. even with several masks on it's a straight up DPS / interrupt / don't stand in bad. If you think it's harder than I am concerned about you as a player.

That’s literally every mechanic in the game lol. They are all like that if you want to go about it like that. N’Zoth is hard? Lol it’s just dps boss, dont stand in bad to not lose sanity, interrupt adds to minimize damage. That’s it.

[Blade Wolf]

Imo the big problem for me with visions is the damn timegating, i could ram my head against the MT over and over and over and over and over and over and over for a measly 100 shard cost.

[Zyky]

If you read what I responded to, you will understand.

Please, enlighten me how the mage tower is so hard that the joke of a challenge that are visions cannot compare. Fact of the matter is that I have a friend who got 36/36 mage tower and yet he was unable to dodge axes on the council boss in kings rest to the point he ragequit the run.

And I'm sure your friend got most of his mage towers after they were dumbed down in Antorus gear and a mega artifact weapon. A few of the major differences that make the Visions significantly easier is there's a significant drop in difficulty when you have many talents tailored around the vision being easier, the visions have several buffs within the vision themselves which just flat increase stats by a large amount, you can also literally be carried in a vision by a group. None of this was true of the Mage Tower, especially throughout all of Tomb of Sargeras where you needed a certain level of skill otherwise you just weren't completing them.

[Penegal]

And I'm sure your friend got most of his mage towers after they were dumbed down in Antorus gear and a mega artifact weapon. A few of the major differences that make the Visions significantly easier is there's a significant drop in difficulty when you have many talents tailored around the vision being easier, the visions have several buffs within the vision themselves which just flat increase stats by a large amount, you can also literally be carried in a vision by a group. None of this was true of the Mage Tower, especially throughout all of Tomb of Sargeras where you needed a certain level of skill otherwise you just weren't completing them.

Okay, so going by the logic that you can use everything to your advantage, how is the mage tower not made easier by outgearing the living shit out of it? If you want to challenge yourself you do the visions solo. If you wanted to challenge yourself in the Mage tower you equipped lesser gear. The biggest drawback in difficulty is that it was introduced early enough that it ensured everyone could do it by the time it was supposed to be removed. This was not done by accident, either. If they wanted to they could’ve scaled either the mobs up or your gear down. But they didn’t. Also, if you want to truly complete the visions, you can’t be carried by a group, seeing as the title achievement is a feat of strength that specifies you need to do them solo. Acting like the mage tower never got easier doesn’t make it true.

[DemonDays]

Visions have almost no mechanics to be aware of, or that are at all punishing. even with several masks on it's a straight up DPS / interrupt / don't stand in bad. If you think it's harder than I am concerned about you as a player.

These are the same types of people who think Mythic+ is the pinnacle of WoW design.

Content where you race against a clock to spam AoE down mobs and avoid hilariously easy mechanics. Exactly like the Visions.


I'm really concerned if people actually think this content is good or challenging.

I mean. We all thought the masks would have interesting ways to earn them and interesting affixs on them. Nope - just complete the Vision in a full clear. There's your first mask. Rinse repeat to get other masks.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, so going by the logic that you can use everything to your advantage, how is the mage tower not made easier by outgearing the living shit out of it? If you want to challenge yourself you do the visions solo. If you wanted to challenge yourself in the Mage tower you equipped lesser gear. The biggest drawback in difficulty is that it was introduced early enough that it ensured everyone could do it by the time it was supposed to be removed. This was not done by accident, either. If they wanted to they could’ve scaled either the mobs up or your gear down. But they didn’t. Also, if you want to truly complete the visions, you can’t be carried by a group, seeing as the title achievement is a feat of strength that specifies you need to do them solo. Acting like the mage tower never got easier doesn’t make it true.

Say it again with me! The Mage Tower didn't have any artificial gates attached to it.

Sure you could get better gear. But that is par for the course in any RPG!

The Visions have multiple gates. Research tree, cloak upgrade, corruption, essences, gear. Then on top there is a plethora of buffs you can run.

How. Is. This. Not. Getting. Through.

[Dracullus]

Imo the big problem for me with visions is the damn timegating, i could ram my head against the MT over and over and over and over and over and over and over for a measly 100 shard cost.

...when it was open. Often it was middle of the week. Also (for me at least) the clock was ticking - I knew it will go away with BfA, launch was coming sooner than I expected and I was after 36/36, I hated that I could have "uncomplete" artifact collection and lose some mogs forever. (I knew it was open 24/7 last 3 weeks, but we didn't know it was coming until it happened).

Also you couldn't replay fight for extra reward and some fights were really fun.

Now I can slowly progress on my main 3 runs a week (and farming is just one quick daily and 3x invasions).

[Zyky]

Okay, so going by the logic that you can use everything to your advantage, how is the mage tower not made easier by outgearing the living shit out of it? If you want to challenge yourself you do the visions solo. If you wanted to challenge yourself in the Mage tower you equipped lesser gear. The biggest drawback in difficulty is that it was introduced early enough that it ensured everyone could do it by the time it was supposed to be removed. This was not done by accident, either. If they wanted to they could’ve scaled either the mobs up or your gear down. But they didn’t. Also, if you want to truly complete the visions, you can’t be carried by a group, seeing as the title achievement is a feat of strength that specifies you need to do them solo. Acting like the mage tower never got easier doesn’t make it true.

You can't go a tier ahead and be like "dur dur mage tower was easy". You compare the Mage Tower when it was considered current aka Tomb of Sargeras to Visions while they're current aka now.

[AlmightyGerkin]

These are the same types of people who think Mythic+ is the pinnacle of WoW design.

Content where you race against a clock to spam AoE down mobs and avoid hilariously easy mechanics. Exactly like the Visions.


I'm really concerned if people actually think this content is good or challenging.

I mean. We all thought the masks would have interesting ways to earn them and interesting affixs on them. Nope - just complete the Vision in a full clear. There's your first mask. Rinse repeat to get other masks.

- - - Updated - - -



Say it again with me! The Mage Tower didn't have any artificial gates attached to it.

Sure you could get better gear. But that is par for the course in any RPG!

The Visions have multiple gates. Research tree, cloak upgrade, corruption, essences, gear. Then on top there is a plethora of buffs you can run.

How. Is. This. Not. Getting. Through.

Mage Tower did have a couple of gates. Wait for completion and the damn nethershards needed. Different gate but still gating.

[Penegal]

These are the same types of people who think Mythic+ is the pinnacle of WoW design.

Content where you race against a clock to spam AoE down mobs and avoid hilariously easy mechanics. Exactly like the Visions.


I'm really concerned if people actually think this content is good or challenging.

I mean. We all thought the masks would have interesting ways to earn them and interesting affixs on them. Nope - just complete the Vision in a full clear. There's your first mask. Rinse repeat to get other masks.

- - - Updated - - -



Say it again with me! The Mage Tower didn't have any artificial gates attached to it.

Sure you could get better gear. But that is par for the course in any RPG!

The Visions have multiple gates. Research tree, cloak upgrade, corruption, essences, gear. Then on top there is a plethora of buffs you can run.

How. Is. This. Not. Getting. Through.

Because we’re not talking about the gated difficulty? What we’re talking about is the throughput and mechanical difficulty. Just as the mage tower got trivialized due to being introduced early this will also become more trivial as time goes by. Instead of gaining item level you are gaining resistance. It’s literally progression in an RPG. Mechanically, visions are more challenging because they have more variation.

[Revamp Man]

I think Visions are superior to Mage Tower, exactly because it has a decent repetition value and all in all it's simply bigger and better with custom systems and more challenge.

People who say Mage Tower was harder that Visions are full of shit.

Let’s compare what is widely considered the easiest of the mage tower challenges which was the worm and the high mountain thing

So we will compare that to say a two medium zone run on org

So in the mage tower you were not limited by time much like you are in visions nor were you punished for standing in an avoidable mechanic other than by taking insane amount of damage which you could out gear well envisions you can’t really out gear the sanity loss without upgrading the cloak

So in the final fight of the mage tower which never changed you would have to interrupt the main boss while dodging the worm while killing eggs while also killing the totem while again making sure that you keep up that interrupt which if you miss even one you’re kind of in trouble and you have to dodge rocks and damage

Envisions you have one add that can stand you and you have one add that can summon a totem that grabs you the bosses have a stun mechanic plus a shield mechanic and the other one has dodging waves plus the silence mechanic
Envisions you have one ad that can stand you and you have one ad that can summon a totem that grabs you the bosses have a stun mechanic plus a shield mechanic and the other one has dodging waves plus the silence mechanic


Now when you go back to the first boss you have two ads that have a fear shout and a very telegraphed but still sanity draining strike and then you move on to the boss and he has the jump that creates the swirls easy enough to dodge still damages sanity he also has the shield mechanic in the silence mechanic but without the Dodge waves and then he has a frontal attack that will stun you and drain sanity

Now failing to damage the shield results insanity loss failing to avoid the stun results insanity loss failing to stand out of the purple swirl of death results insanity loss but none of this can out right kill you and there is even research to make this easier

Now failing to damage the shield results insanity loss failing to avoid the stun results insanity loss failing to stand out of the purple swirl of death results insanity loss but none of this can outright kill you and there is even research to make this easier


In the mage tower you did not have anything to make that flight easier you did not have anything that would make the interrupt no longer matter you could not out gear that section you could not out of gear a 12 second stun you could not out of gear multiple ads giving you a doc you could not out gear the mechanics themselves but you could make the fight last about half the original length

In the mage tower you did not have anything to make that flight easier you did not have anything that would make the interrupt no longer matter you could not out gear that section you could not out of gear a 12 second stun you could not out of gear multiple ads giving you a doc you could not out gear the mechanics themselves but you could make the fight last about half the original length


The tower was objectively hard because you were punished for not playing well and while you can say you are currently punished envisions it was more permanent and much harsher in the mage tower I had a heroic geared paladin with perfect legendary’s and I still did not get the DPS appearance mainly because I did not care

The tower was objectively hard because you were punished for not playing well and while you can say you are currently punished in visions it was more permanent and much harsher in the mage tower I had a heroic geared paladin with perfect legendary‘s and I still did not get the DPS appearance mainly because I did not care

Visions and the mage tower are not the same thing players need to realize this not only are they not the same thing in terms of difficulty but they are not the same thing in terms of design the visions are not designed in a way for you to have to show high skill level they are designed in a way for you to eventually be able to beat them this is shown by the fact that the side bosses only really have one mechanic and the random corruption effect that you have to deal with every week is an intrusive and has minimal effect on gameplay

[Penegal]

You can't go a tier ahead and be like "dur dur mage tower was easy". You compare the Mage Tower when it was considered current aka Tomb of Sargeras to Visions while they're current aka now.

Why not? The rewards were there even after it was current content. They got removed after the expansion ended.

Even so, a direct comparison would be: mechanically, the tower had a few scripted fights while the visions have added variation due to masks and madnesses. It’s as simple as that. The tower never changed at all.