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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Patch 8.3: Visions of N'dlessgrinding
    8.3 is the least grindy stuff they released since WoD.

    You literally just have to play the game as normal to get your stuff done.

    The only thing that can be considered grindy is if you need at least lvl 75 on your neck on several alts come next reset.
    Last edited by babyback; 2020-01-17 at 06:30 PM.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I took one alt through the intro quests, and even with the scenario skips it really took a long time. Blizzard needs to do better, 8.3 is going to last until October or later, it needs to be alt-friendly.
    Kinda ironic that you think it takes too much time and at the same time mention it's a long long time until next expansion comes out isn't it? If you have 10 alts that is 20 hours tops to do the questline, which is nothing when we bring the drought into the mix.

    If you think about it, if the patch is gonna last 10 months, using 1-2 hours on an alt for the questline is a good thing. I am doing 1 alt every day now. The questline got good value and replayability because it provide decent gear, lots of AP, new essences and legendary cloak for every character you do it with. You don't really want to skip the rewards that comes from the required assaults in the questline. Think about the mini and major assault only can be done three times a week(2 mini, 1 major). Meaning, you got so much time to drag several characters through it.

    Now, if scenarios wasn't skipable, I would agree with you. But you can't really skip the assaults, it comes with character power. It's like skipping a raid boss with guaranteed loot. Ion himself explained this a bit in the latest interview. And I totally agree with him. Skip story, totally. Skip playable power progressing content, no chance. If we go deep here, it would be close to giving you gear and ap in mail in comparison.
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    FUCKING YES!!!! This so much.....it doesn't make sense for a new character to have all the achieves or mounts that your main character does....because they are DIFFERENT CHARACTERS.....

    so glad you said this....*clapclapclapclapclap*
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    Exactly my train of thought. I think the complaints are coming from the players that want to skip all the leveling and story and jump right into dungeons and raiding. I'm the exact opposite. I play through the game again on alts because a new class is fun but have no intention of doing serious end game content with them.
    One of you literally answered the post though. There's a good chunk of players that just enjoy replaying certain content on different characters.

    I liked doing the Mage Tower challenge as all specs. Does that mean I suddenly enjoyed leveling up to get my rogue to 110? No.
    I enjoy gearing up toons. Does that suddenly mean I enjoy doing a ton of quests to be allowed to finally do M+? No.

    It's ridiculous of a claim to go "Well you're playing an alt, that MUST mean you want to redo EVERYTHING again!"

    The real issue here is that this isn't even something that's skill based to unlock. And for the most part, it's the same with essences (Besides maybe like, Visions of Perfection and the raid ones).
    It's just another tedious pointless waste of time to prevent you from getting to what you want to do.

    And in this case, capes don't even drop anymore so it's not like you can just skip getting a cape to just do M+

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Kinda ironic that you think it takes too much time and at the same time mention it's a long long time until next expansion comes out isn't it? If you have 10 alts that is 20 hours tops to do the questline, which is nothing when we bring the drought into the mix.

    If you think about it, if the patch is gonna last 10 months, using 1-2 hours on an alt for the questline is a good thing. I am doing 1 alt every day now. The questline got good value and replayability because it provide decent gear, lots of AP, new essences and legendary cloak for every character you do it with. You don't really want to skip the rewards that comes from the required assaults in the questline. Think about the mini and major assault only can be done three times a week(2 mini, 1 major). Meaning, you got so much time to drag several characters through it.

    Now, if scenarios wasn't skipable, I would agree with you. But you can't really skip the assaults, it comes with character power. It's like skipping a raid boss with guaranteed loot. Ion himself explained this a bit in the latest interview. And I totally agree with him. Skip story, totally. Skip playable power progressing content, no chance. If we go deep here, it would be close to giving you gear and ap in mail in comparison.
    Most of the scenarios aren't skippable. There's a grand total of like, maybe 2 that are.

  4. #164
    It is annoying but it also makes me appreciate my main character and main alt more because actually taking the time to do these things means more. Towards the end of last tier I was doing a weekly 10 on like 8-9 characters and sure it's fun when you open the weekly chest but ultimately you're in a hamster wheel with many alts where you don't really get that much out of it.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    One of you literally answered the post though. There's a good chunk of players that just enjoy replaying certain content on different characters.

    I liked doing the Mage Tower challenge as all specs. Does that mean I suddenly enjoyed leveling up to get my rogue to 110? No.
    I enjoy gearing up toons. Does that suddenly mean I enjoy doing a ton of quests to be allowed to finally do M+? No.

    It's ridiculous of a claim to go "Well you're playing an alt, that MUST mean you want to redo EVERYTHING again!"

    The real issue here is that this isn't even something that's skill based to unlock. And for the most part, it's the same with essences (Besides maybe like, Visions of Perfection and the raid ones).
    It's just another tedious pointless waste of time to prevent you from getting to what you want to do.

    And in this case, capes don't even drop anymore so it's not like you can just skip getting a cape to just do M+

    - - - Updated - - -



    Most of the scenarios aren't skippable. There's a grand total of like, maybe 2 that are.
    The two that is 80% of the scenarios are skippable. Those two that takes 1 hour back and forth are skippable. Only other of notice is the cloak, but here we are with what I am talking about. The cloak scenario rewards the cloak. It's pretty clear where blizzard draw the line. The chamber one takes literally 3 minutes.

    So yes, most of the scenarios are skippable.
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  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    The two that is 80% of the scenarios are skippable. Those two that takes 1 hour back and forth are skippable. Only other of notice is the cloak, but here we are with what I am talking about. The cloak scenario rewards the cloak. It's pretty clear where blizzard draw the line. The chamber one takes literally 3 minutes.

    So yes, most of the scenarios are skippable.
    The Mogu'shen vaults one isn't that lengthy. Mind you, I did it last night and didn't even realize it was skippable because I guess you had to talk to someone other than Magni so it can be missed.

    But it's definitely not "80%".

    The Blackwing Descent scenario still exists, and heading to and from and back to Halls of Origination still exists.

    Lastly, you flat out said "If the scenarios weren't skippable...".
    And...they're not. Not all of them at least. So it kinda invalidates the point of saying "if they weren't".

  7. #167
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dommie530 View Post
    What have you been smoking? Doing uldum, vale, lesser vision wont take any longer then 45-60minuts. A game should be time demanding. Time -> reward. Essences litterly take less then 3 weeks to obtain in all epic variants. Sure it requires some time but if you dont have the time, stay playing 1 char. I dont want people geared to the teeth and what not with only spending 5 minuts a day. That ridiculous
    As you said, it might take an hour. A normally functional adult can not spend 5 hours a day just on alts in wow, for example, and 5 alts in a pretty average now a days I ´d say.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The Mogu'shen vaults one isn't that lengthy. Mind you, I did it last night and didn't even realize it was skippable because I guess you had to talk to someone other than Magni so it can be missed.

    But it's definitely not "80%".

    The Blackwing Descent scenario still exists, and heading to and from and back to Halls of Origination still exists.

    Lastly, you flat out said "If the scenarios weren't skippable...".
    And...they're not. Not all of them at least. So it kinda invalidates the point of saying "if they weren't".
    But then you take the travel time into the account. It doesn't invalidate what I said at all. If anything that just tells me that you are taking travel time into the account and while I can agree it would be nice to skip that, travelling is not scenarios. So trying to "make a point" and dragging that into the mix is a fallacy.

    The longest one is skippable, the first one who takes 30, 35 minutes. The mogu takes 20 mins as well which you can skip. The chamber 3 minutes, BwD takes 10. The last in the Forge takes 5 minutes.

    And you talk to Magni to skip. Tells me that you didn't pay attention to where you could skip or not. I mean, you admitted that much.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-01-17 at 06:53 PM.
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  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    If you think about it, if the patch is gonna last 10 months, using 1-2 hours on an alt for the questline is a good thing. I am doing 1 alt every day now. The questline got good value and replayability because it provide decent gear, lots of AP, new essences and legendary cloak for every character you do it with.
    Rewards and replayability are not the same thing. They are completely separate. What I want is for my alts to have access to 8.3 content unlocked without having to do 2 hours of questing 11 additional times. It doesn't matter how long I have to do those 2 hours, if I don't enjoy it.

    The whole thing is just annoying to sit through after the first time. You can't skip most of it. Even at the very beginning, when you go to Stormwind on the alliance side, you need to slowly walk with Magni to hand him his hammer. The whole questline is like that, tons of waiting around for stuff you already know about to happen.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-01-17 at 06:57 PM.

  10. #170
    Not hating on Blizzard or anything, I'm enjoying new patch so far, but when it comes to alts, for now all of my alts are parked for good. I'm kinda redirecting all my focus on one character.

    Unless? They make essences account bound and introduce at least some sort of minor artifact knowledge mechanic.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But then you take the travel time into the account. It doesn't invalidate what I said at all. If anything that just tells me that you are taking travel time into the account and while I can agree it would be nice to skip that, travelling is not scenarios. So trying to "make a point" and dragging that into the mix is a fallacy.

    The longest one is skippable, the first one who takes 30, 35 minutes. The mogu takes 20 mins as well which you can skip. The chamber 3 minutes, BwD takes 10. The last in the Forge takes 5 minutes.

    And you talk to Magni to skip. Tells me that you didn't pay attention to where you could skip or not. I mean, you admitted that much.
    Dude I have no idea what you were doing in the Mogu'shen one that it took you 20 minutes to do.

    The statues are the most tedious part. Past that, it's more like 10 minutes tops.
    And no, talking to Magni inside the instance gives nothing, talking to Magni near Cho gives nothing.

    And lo and behold, 5 seconds of googling confirms you have to talk to Ra-den
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._alts/fefxyyx/

    So how am I the one not paying attention when you didn't even know how to actually skip it? You're trying to awkwardly measure scenarios by how "long" they are rather than the sheer number of scenarios that exist that are still unskippable, and how the worst part is the travel time anyway.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Dude I have no idea what you were doing in the Mogu'shen one that it took you 20 minutes to do.

    The statues are the most tedious part. Past that, it's more like 10 minutes tops.
    And no, talking to Magni inside the instance gives nothing, talking to Magni near Cho gives nothing.

    And lo and behold, 5 seconds of googling confirms you have to talk to Ra-den
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._alts/fefxyyx/

    So how am I the one not paying attention when you didn't even know how to actually skip it? You're trying to awkwardly measure scenarios by how "long" they are rather than the sheer number of scenarios that exist that are still unskippable, and how the worst part is the travel time anyway.
    Did I say that about travel time is the worst? No, you mentioned the travel time back and forth. We were talking about scenarios, not travel time. If I said "you can skip travelling" you might have had a point. But the scenarios without rewards are indeed skipable, so you don't. You cut at least 45 minutes of 1 hour of scenarios. You coming in trying to make a point that it was "merely" 2 scenarios is kinda disingenuous when those two scenarios are the two biggest ones, by far.

    You are just someone that think its not needed to do stuff on alts because you want it easy, that's fine. But don't pretend you can't skip the longest parts in the questline on alts. You can indeed skip most of the scenarios, that's the fact.

    And fine, both of us didn't know who we talked to then. Ra-den, Magni-den whatever. But I knew you could skip it. So indeed, you are the one that is paying attention the least. If that matters to you.
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Did I say that about travel time is the worst? No, you mentioned the travel time back and forth. We were talking about scenarios, not travel time. If I said "you can skip travelling" you might have had a point. But the scenarios without rewards are indeed skipable, so you don't. You cut at least 45 minutes of 1 hour of scenarios. You coming in trying to make a point that it was "merely" 2 scenarios is kinda disingenuous when those two scenarios are the two biggest ones, by far.
    This is quite a stretch and I'm honestly a bit baffled you're missing the point here.

    YOU came in saying "it's FINE that it takes this long! Besides, you can skip the scenarios, if you couldn't I'd agree it's too long"

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Now, if scenarios wasn't skipable, I would agree with you.
    So to point out that it's dishonest that you can skip the scenarios as a blanket statement is fair game. Because you can't skip them all, only two of them. And on top of that, you're missing the huge point that it isn't even the scenarios draining time like you're acting, it's the constant traveling around.

    Here's a better point for you.
    Why should I have to head ALL the way to Halls of Origination just to tell Magni "I've done this before"? Why can't I just do it at the Chamber of the Heart?

    Hence, travel time is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You are just someone that think its not needed to do stuff on alts because you want it easy, that's fine. But don't pretend you can't skip the longest parts in the questline on alts. You can indeed skip most of the scenarios, that's the fact.
    Go find someone else to strawman. Nowhere did I say "I want it easy". And to even bring in difficulty to a mindless "head to point A to go to point B back to point A to go to point C to go back to point A" is just silly.

    I'm not "pretending" anything. You can't skip the longest part on questlines, which is doing the assaults and the travel time. The scenarios are NOT the longest part, and if you're talking in numbers, the total number of scenarios are

    1) First Halls of Origination (skippable)
    2) Engine of Nalak'sha (skippable)
    3) Second Halls of Origination (not skippable, but the shortest, still an annoyance though that serves no real purpose)
    4) Blackwing Descent (Not skippable, on par in length with the first one)
    5) Third Halls of Origination (not skippable, on par in length with the Engine).

    So, 2 out of 5 can be skipped.
    Less than half.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    And fine, both of us didn't know who we talked to then. Ra-den, Magni-den whatever. But I knew you could skip it. So indeed, you are the one that is paying attention the least. If that matters to you.
    So what if you knew you could skip it? This isn't some measuring contest of who's paying attention or not. The fact is you claimed "80% of the scenarios are skippable" after trying to say they're all skippable, neither of which is right.

    And to add onto why this is so pointless, I also knew you could skip it. The point was I didn't the FIRST time I did it on an alt, because it can be missed. And you know when I started doing it on my alt? At 2:30AM on patch night. So really what is the point of this?

    The issue is up until this point, almost every time you can skip something with a "I've heard this tale before...", either the dialog box pops up again to show you it's there, or you have to talk to the person to queue in the first place and it shows up as a second option.

    Neither situation happens with the 8.3 questline.
    Last edited by Jester Joe; 2020-01-17 at 08:32 PM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Its tedious, its long, its awfully buggy currently.
    Essences alone along with Nazjatar and Mechagon farm and rep farm were enough obstacles to face while gearing alts.
    8.3. quest line is like a final shot in the head.

    Its an essential fix to make it skippable on alts for the most part.
    Didn’t alts die in Legion?

    They were on life support in WoD/MoP with the godawful legendary questline but Legion really killed them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Did I say that about travel time is the worst? No, you mentioned the travel time back and forth. We were talking about scenarios, not travel time. If I said "you can skip travelling" you might have had a point. But the scenarios without rewards are indeed skipable, so you don't. You cut at least 45 minutes of 1 hour of scenarios. You coming in trying to make a point that it was "merely" 2 scenarios is kinda disingenuous when those two scenarios are the two biggest ones, by far.

    You are just someone that think its not needed to do stuff on alts because you want it easy, that's fine. But don't pretend you can't skip the longest parts in the questline on alts. You can indeed skip most of the scenarios, that's the fact.

    And fine, both of us didn't know who we talked to then. Ra-den, Magni-den whatever. But I knew you could skip it. So indeed, you are the one that is paying attention the least. If that matters to you.
    Your definition of easy versus hard seems to focus on time spent. To me it should be based on difficulty.

    Something that takes a long time, but everything isn’t that challenging should be called tedious, not hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Back in my day if you wanted Netherwing drakes on more than one character you unlocked them on more than one character... there weren't none of these newfangled 'catch-up' mechanics or rep tokens! You either had drakes, or you didn't!

    I can't wait til Blizzard releases TBC Classic and people re-live the attunement chains. :3
    As for this patch, the first day was brutal. Took me many hours, but that's mostly because I watched every cut scene and did every single daily. Now when I go through on alts I skip all cutscenes and the big dungeon scenarios and all dailies except assaults. Does anyone remember Nazjatar/Mecha day one without flying?
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    and he's got a fat ass

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Its tedious, its long, its awfully buggy currently.
    Wrong contrary to 8.2 patch 8.3 is great for alt especially with how easy you get the new essences.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    This is quite a stretch and I'm honestly a bit baffled you're missing the point here.

    YOU came in saying "it's FINE that it takes this long! Besides, you can skip the scenarios, if you couldn't I'd agree it's too long"
    You writing its quite a stretch and me missing the point, then you write the sentence below which was not what I wrote, so I was going to end the discussion because you are not being honest, but then I see you are wrong further down so lets do this.

    I didn't say it's fine it is that long, I said it is fine it is this long to the poster I first quoted because of what he wrote. Context. You can stop putting word in my mouth.

    So to point out that it's dishonest that you can skip the scenarios as a blanket statement is fair game. Because you can't skip them all, only two of them. And on top of that, you're missing the huge point that it isn't even the scenarios draining time like you're acting, it's the constant traveling around.
    The bolded part is why I think you are just trying to get a discussion here. Only, as in, at least 80% of all the scenarios in the questline. So stop going around it, you can skip it. I didn't even say every scenario, just that scenarios are skippable. Which they are. So whos strawmanning?
    Here's a better point for you.
    Why should I have to head ALL the way to Halls of Origination just to tell Magni "I've done this before"? Why can't I just do it at the Chamber of the Heart?

    Hence, travel time is important.
    So why do you put that on me about that time travel when its obviously you whos talking about it? You came here, trying to make a point that scenarios are not skipable, which they are, then go further with the time it takes to go back and forth. Then try to say that I was writing that? I was saying that you take travel time into account, when it was scenarios we talked about. So whos strawmanning?

    Go find someone else to strawman. Nowhere did I say "I want it easy". And to even bring in difficulty to a mindless "head to point A to go to point B back to point A to go to point C to go back to point A" is just silly.
    When I say easy, I mean fast, don't have to do stuff to power your characters. It is clear that you want to skip all of it, so it's not a strawman. Especially when you try to come here saying that scenarios are not skipable when they are.
    I'm not "pretending" anything. You can't skip the longest part on questlines, which is doing the assaults and the travel time. The scenarios are NOT the longest part, and if you're talking in numbers, the total number of scenarios are

    1) First Halls of Origination (skippable)
    2) Engine of Nalak'sha (skippable)
    3) Second Halls of Origination (not skippable, but the shortest, still an annoyance though that serves no real purpose)
    4) Blackwing Descent (Not skippable, on par in length with the first one)
    5) Third Halls of Origination (not skippable, on par in length with the Engine).

    So, 2 out of 5 can be skipped.
    Less than half.
    So you are pretending. 2 of 5 can be skipped, sure, just that those 1 of 5 are longer than all the other 4 combined. Excellent point you got there, really showed me. And we were not talking about the Assault, they are not skipable. We know that, we were not talking about that. But scenarios. So again, whos strawmanning?

    So what if you knew you could skip it? This isn't some measuring contest of who's paying attention or not. The fact is you claimed "80% of the scenarios are skippable" after trying to say they're all skippable, neither of which is right.
    Seemed to me that it was since you really had to point that out?
    And to add onto why this is so pointless, I also knew you could skip it. The point was I didn't the FIRST time I did it on an alt, because it can be missed. And you know when I started doing it on my alt? At 2:30AM on patch night. So really what is the point of this?
    You tell me. You are lying, so for me it's to make you stop doing that so people get to know that scenarios are skippable. Which they are.

    The issue is up until this point, almost every time you can skip something with a "I've heard this tale before...", either the dialog box pops up again to show you it's there, or you have to talk to the person to queue in the first place and it shows up as a second option.

    Neither situation happens with the 8.3 questline.
    This has actually happened before 8.3. It's not something new. That you don't know this isn't surprising anymore. Every time you could skip, you got that text up when you talked to them to proceed. It happened in the BfA intro questlines and in Legion as well.

    Gonna stop here and pretend this discussion didn't happen. Always fun when someone try to make a fallacy point then do 3 strawmans to get the point out. It's so rich that you try to put a strawman on me when you did it in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Didn’t alts die in Legion?

    They were on life support in WoD/MoP with the godawful legendary questline but Legion really killed them.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Your definition of easy versus hard seems to focus on time spent. To me it should be based on difficulty.

    Something that takes a long time, but everything isn’t that challenging should be called tedious, not hard.
    Easy as in not having to do stuff to power up your character. To skip assault when it gives you gear, essences and rewards. Not talking about if stuff should be account-wide or not, different opinions on that, but that people want to skip content to get power-up for their alts. I disagree with that completely. Doing Horrific Vision on alts for instance, should that be account-wide? Should the legendary cloak be upgraded on alts when you do it on main? Should the essence from the mini vision in the Assault be upgraded for all your alts when you do it on the main?

    Should it be so you can skip the assault on alts then get rewarded the AP, gear and essences it gives just because you did it on one char? I don't think that is cool. But to skip story, which I was discussing is something else. Story that gives you no power up is a non-issue. Like introduction scenario to Boralus or Zuldazar for instance. Like listening to Magni for 1 hour when you don't really have to. Which we know by now, is skipable in 8.3 when it's no power for the character attached to it. Which like I said earlier, is the philosophy blizzard has on alts.
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  18. #178
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    Why play an alt if you don't want to play the same content on a different character? That's kinda what alts are, a "new game". WoW isn't a game with 36 specs for your character, it's a game where you choose your class.
    Are you seriously inferring that the quests part of the questline are meaningful content? Dude, it's literally alternating daily quests except for the few scenarios. The real content is the new PvP season and Ny'alotha. That's why people have alts, because they want to do the raids over and over. There's no sense doing ny'alotha multiple times on the same toon if there's no gear progression. I'll clear Ny'alotha week 1 on my main and then do it again on as many alts as I can. So yes, I'd love nothing more than to skip a questline that isn't meaningful. This isn't some single player RPG where there's meaning to every quest. Look at it this way: The questline is for the cloak is like an optional tutorial in a single player RPG. The first time through you're forced to do it, but everytime you do a NG+ or create a new save slot, it'll give you the option to skip the tutorial. Except in WoW, there's no skip for the tutorial, but you're claiming that tutorial is meaningful content.
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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You writing its quite a stretch and me missing the point, then you write the sentence below which was not what I wrote, so I was going to end the discussion because you are not being honest, but then I see you are wrong further down so lets do this.
    I quoted exactly what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    I didn't say it's fine it is that long, I said it is fine it is this long to the poster I first quoted because of what he wrote. Context. You can stop putting word in my mouth.
    Because Shadowlands isn't coming for a long time, yes.

    And your rebuttal was to claim that it's better that something is tediously long because of that, but at least the scenarios are skippable (when most aren't).

    Yes, I did read that. Nowhere did I put words in your mouth. That is why I was sure to quote you so you couldn't try to move the goalpost. It was clear what you said.

    And on top of that, you miss that the longer you put off the cape the further behind you end up. Yes, the levels are timegated but you still have to work your way through it to catch up, so any alts you want to keep up to date have to be done this week. Not later. Not "used to cushion the time between 8.3 and Shadowlands".


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    The bolded part is why I think you are just trying to get a discussion here. Only, as in, at least 80% of all the scenarios in the questline. So stop going around it, you can skip it. I didn't even say every scenario, just that scenarios are skippable. Which they are. So whos strawmanning?
    I...what?

    That's what forums are for, discussion. Why else would I post if I didn't want to discuss something?

    And again you keep falling back to this "80%!" claim, which has been proven faulty either way. Your original post had a blanket statement of "the scenarios are skippable". Not "the worst scenarios are skippable" (which isn't true either).

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    So why do you put that on me about that time travel when its obviously you whos talking about it? You came here, trying to make a point that scenarios are not skipable, which they are, then go further with the time it takes to go back and forth. Then try to say that I was writing that? I was saying that you take travel time into account, when it was scenarios we talked about. So whos strawmanning?
    Because the original person you quoted had an issue with the time it takes even WITH THE SKIPS.
    Saying the skips we have aren't enough. So when you come in going "But it's fine, you can skip the scenarios!", people are going to point out the flaw there and that it doesn't solve the issue.

    Also, I don't think you know what a strawman is. it's when you misrepresent someone's point to argue that instead.

    Like when you tried to claim I'm saying I want a "easy" or "faster" way to do it when I never said either. Meanwhile, I've been quoting you yourself to show you what points I'm debating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    When I say easy, I mean fast, don't have to do stuff to power your characters. It is clear that you want to skip all of it, so it's not a strawman. Especially when you try to come here saying that scenarios are not skipable when they are.
    That is literally the definition of a strawman, and you strawman again.
    I never said I want to skip all of it.

    You understand I could be completely fine with the way it works currently but still point out that your claim was faulty, yes? That's the issue here, you're arguing something I never said, that I want it "easy" or "instant".

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    So you are pretending. 2 of 5 can be skipped, sure, just that those 1 of 5 are longer than all the other 4 combined. Excellent point you got there, really showed me. And we were not talking about the Assault, they are not skipable. We know that, we were not talking about that. But scenarios. So again, whos strawmanning?
    Except it's not. You're flat out wrong if you're going to say the 1st scenario is longer than the other 4 combine. The first one might be slightly longer than the Blackwing Descent scenario, but it's not longer than all the other combine, that's just ridiculous to claim.

    And again, since you seem keen to respond with "CONTEXT!", again the other poster even acknowledged you can skip that but still says it takes too long overall. Also it's a bit telling that you completely snipped out my point about how it's a waste to even have to travel to Magni to tell him you already heard this tale...


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Seemed to me that it was since you really had to point that out?
    What kind of backwards logic is that? I pointed out you're wrong, so that means you're right? That isn't how any of this works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You tell me. You are lying, so for me it's to make you stop doing that so people get to know that scenarios are skippable. Which they are.
    ...except my first post said "Only 2 are skippable". That isn't lying. And you can't even point out a single spot of me lying, meanwhile you keep insisting "the scenarios are skippable except it's really only 2 are and not 5 but don't pay attention to that". Your blanket statement of "the scenarios are skippable" could lead to people looking how to try to skip EVERY SINGLE ONE. And on top of that, you were flat out wrong about how to even skip one and I had to correct it so people would know which are skippable and HOW.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    This has actually happened before 8.3. It's not something new. That you don't know this isn't surprising anymore. Every time you could skip, you got that text up when you talked to them to proceed. It happened in the BfA intro questlines and in Legion as well.

    Gonna stop here and pretend this discussion didn't happen. Always fun when someone try to make a fallacy point then do 3 strawmans to get the point out. It's so rich that you try to put a strawman on me when you did it in the first place.
    And this is where it just gets to be overkill on it.

    As someone who is an altoholic, to the point that I'm reaching having multiple of specific classes at max level, I can tell you with confidence that any time there was a point you can skip a section, it was either

    A) prompted immediately, as in the dialog box would force itself open again
    or
    B) You had to talk to the person to queue in the first place (This is exactly how the Battle for Lordaeron worked even, the person you queued for the event with also had the skip.

    Here's some proof for you-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Riy2gL8xDI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0VTIUbLYWk

    notice no "instant pop up", but rather the person you queued with had the option.

    Worked the same way for Broken Shore
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl4vUTCjPnM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFrH2zRBHrQ

    Another-
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...scenario_skip/

    This isn't the case with Magni and that's the exact issue. Nor with Ra-den. it's counter-intuitive to how the entire system has worked up until this point.

    You are clearly not reading my posts properly since I flat out say
    The issue is up until this point, almost every time you can skip something with a "I've heard this tale before...", either the dialog box pops up again to show you it's there, or you have to talk to the person to queue in the first place and it shows up as a second option.

    Neither situation happens with the 8.3 questline.
    And your response is to go "HAH, you could skip stuff by talking to them before, I'M NOT SURPRISED YOU DIDN'T KNOW" despite the fact that I literally JUST used how the system worked to show you the flaw here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Should it be so you can skip the assault on alts then get rewarded the AP, gear and essences it gives just because you did it on one char? I don't think that is cool. But to skip story, which I was discussing is something else. Story that gives you no power up is a non-issue. Like introduction scenario to Boralus or Zuldazar for instance. Like listening to Magni for 1 hour when you don't really have to. Which we know by now, is skipable in 8.3 when it's no power for the character attached to it. Which like I said earlier, is the philosophy blizzard has on alts.
    The account wide increase on the heart ilvl from Exalted Champions of Azeroth would like a word with your claim of "blizzard doesn't let you skip stuff for power increases on alts."

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The account wide increase on the heart ilvl from Exalted Champions of Azeroth would like a word with your claim of "blizzard doesn't let you skip stuff for power increases on alts."
    Yes, of course, and there are various catch-up mechanisms too. In fact they could have used the artifact knowledge catchup to avoid the necklace catchup, but for whatever reason they won't make each necklace rank cost less than 1000AP. Maybe they can't handle an item getting two upgrades at a single shot or something.

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