Legendary cape is capped to 6

[Throwme]

If you're only playing 5% of the game, cool beans have fun, but don't complain when you can't do content that requires gear.

Again, not complaining, merely saying there are plenty of people actively playing without being anywhere near the 420 you don't see how people can be under.

However, interesting that you bring up 5% of the game as an argument. Because, isn't that exactly what we are doing? Latest content is the best place to get geared. Latest content is always an ever decreasing part of the game. The game that still includes all the Vanilla zones, Outlands, Northrend, Pandaria, Draenor, Broken Isles and current isles. But only 8.3 content is relevant, right? That means we're playing even LESS than 5% of the game. And more than 95% of the game does NOT hold any upgrades for us. I could play 90% of everything in the game and still not get a single upgrade for any of my Korrak alts, if I don't play the 10% that matters. I think you meant "Unless you're only playing the 5% of the game, cool beans have fun, but don't complain when you can't do content that requires gear".

And again, I am not complaining about being undergeared or anything like it. I still originally commented on the statement that you don't see how anyone can be under 420. There are a lot more of those than you think.

[Jazzhands]

Well here you stated:



Which you can have alts under 400 still even if they aren't freshest. Freshest alts should be ~285ish minimum if you have heirloom's only. Though it's not too bad to get them to ~340ish with every slot being 385 minus rings/trinkets. Which sucks because for the most part you have to rely on World Quests to be up or craft (though that is wasted money for me). It'd be nice if they had a ring/trinket catchup as well. Supposedly assaults can drop them too (BoA), but I haven't seen or heard them actually drop.

Freshest might not have been the best term, I'll give you that, too easy to misinterpret. To me, an alt is "fresh" for a few weeks, because you don't spend much time on them so they sit in the fridge a lot. My last alt was 410 within a week, playing maybe 1-2 hours a day. I got lucky with weapon drops, but even without those I would have been like, 408. That alt is now 415 and abandon because I got bored. I never ran the mechagon dungeon, did a few M+2, did LFR maybe twice, spent maybe a total of 5 hours in nazjatar, did gear emissaries, and the heroic warfront once. Very little effort, if I kept going at the same pace for a week or two more I would have been 420 easily.

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Again, not complaining, merely saying there are plenty of people actively playing without being anywhere near the 420 you don't see how people can be under.

However, interesting that you bring up 5% of the game as an argument. Because, isn't that exactly what we are doing? Latest content is the best place to get geared. Latest content is always an ever decreasing part of the game. The game that still includes all the Vanilla zones, Outlands, Northrend, Pandaria, Draenor, Broken Isles and current isles. But only 8.3 content is relevant, right? That means we're playing even LESS than 5% of the game. And more than 95% of the game does NOT hold any upgrades for us. I could play 90% of everything in the game and still not get a single upgrade for any of my Korrak alts, if I don't play the 10% that matters. I think you meant "Unless you're only playing the 5% of the game, cool beans have fun, but don't complain when you can't do content that requires gear".

And again, I am not complaining about being undergeared or anything like it. I still originally commented on the statement that you don't see how anyone can be under 420. There are a lot more of those than you think.

Ah, I get it now. You're one of those people. Don't know why I didn't realize it sooner, but it's way past my bed time so I'm not surprised.

[qwerty123456]

Freshest might not have been the best term, I'll give you that, too easy to misinterpret. To me, an alt is "fresh" for a few weeks, because you don't spend much time on them so they sit in the fridge a lot. My last alt was 410 within a week, playing maybe 1-2 hours a day. I got lucky with weapon drops, but even without those I would have been like, 408. That alt is now 415 and abandon because I got bored. I never ran the mechagon dungeon, did a few M+2, did LFR maybe twice, spent maybe a total of 5 hours in nazjatar, did gear emissaries, and the heroic warfront once. Very little effort, if I kept going at the same pace for a week or two more I would have been 420 easily.

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Ah, I get it now. You're one of those people. Don't know why I didn't realize it sooner, but it's way past my bed time so I'm not surprised.

Last i heard the majority of players dont even do LFR or any raid for that matter. I haven't seen anything on mythic dungeons but I assume the stats for people doing them would also be the minority of players. Someone can still play 40+ hours a week and not be 420. The new gear would probably be over 430 if everyone was 420+.

[FlubberPuddy]

Really? Because I played all of 8.2 except for Normal+ on Eternal Palace and Mechagon and all of my alts were 395-400 range with the exception of my main who I ran some M+ on and did some heroic warfronts with and she was at 420. So you can play all of 8.2 and not be in the 400-410 range. Yeah there's Benthic upgrades, but why waste pearls on something you know will be wasted next patch and save up for the cosmetics/essences?

Essentially there is more to 8.2 than running M+ and raids.

My overall point was don't be someone who complains about not being able to complete visions where Blizzard expects people to be geared in some form if you're not someone doing any of the 8.2 content that rewards gear.

Hence my example of someone playing the AH.

Targeting the wrong thing in the post and missing the point overall. This wasn't about not being able to do 8.2 content unless you're ilvl is 400-410. This is about anyone who complains of not being able to do 8.3 content, Horrific Visions, that requires a certain amount of gear to kill the final boss.

You and @Throwme

[Xeenith]

when 8.3 hit, I had 3 types of char at 120 : my main about 425, my alts leveled some time ago that where 410-415, and the "korrack" alts, that are around 400
I never raid or dungeon because I hate depending on other people and repeating stuff 100% similar, strangely I don't get bored with WQ. well that and I don't have luck with RNG so I'd rather do the same emissary 14 times in 3 days on all my chars, than do MM+ or even LFR because they never give me what I want/need ^^
now the main is 432 with only the leg quest and the few assault we had. one alt got the leg too, still need to upgrade it.
and I'll slowly start to get most of those alts through the long ass quest ^^
I'd rather have 1 char from each class around 410-415 than a main 440+ and no other char to play around when the main have close to nothing interesting to do hehe

[gutnbrg]

i didnt understand anything anyone said in this thread and thats 1 reason i wont be coming back to retail...30k and 60k tokens? for what?

[Tradu]

i didnt understand anything anyone said in this thread and thats 1 reason i wont be coming back to retail...30k and 60k tokens? for what?

So because you don't want to spend 5 minutes reading the Wowhead article or 10 watching any of the many quick guides on Visions, you're not coming back to retail? Interesting.

[Tyrannica]

Don't you just need to kill Thrall/Alleria each time to get to level 6? How can you possibly fail that? I guess some people are trying to push into harder zones early, but that's really kinda pointless.

Or you get a dc and fail, or in my case get a bug and drain all your insanity instantly in a few seconds from a full bar in the start zone.

You know multiple people got dced on eu servers 20 times in a row on patch day(rather night).

Many ways to failure, i guess.

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when 8.3 hit, I had 3 types of char at 120 : my main about 425, my alts leveled some time ago that where 410-415, and the "korrack" alts, that are around 400
I never raid or dungeon because I hate depending on other people and repeating stuff 100% similar, strangely I don't get bored with WQ. well that and I don't have luck with RNG so I'd rather do the same emissary 14 times in 3 days on all my chars, than do MM+ or even LFR because they never give me what I want/need ^^
now the main is 432 with only the leg quest and the few assault we had. one alt got the leg too, still need to upgrade it.
and I'll slowly start to get most of those alts through the long ass quest ^^
I'd rather have 1 char from each class around 410-415 than a main 440+ and no other char to play around when the main have close to nothing interesting to do hehe

getting 5 masks in visions is not interesting? i think thats quite a thrill - right now.

[huth]

So because you don't want to spend 5 minutes reading the Wowhead article or 10 watching any of the many quick guides on Visions, you're not coming back to retail? Interesting.

It's even all explained in the questline leading up to unlocking Visions. This is like refusing to attend a math course because you don't already know what they're going to teach you.

[gutnbrg]

So because you don't want to spend 5 minutes reading the Wowhead article or 10 watching any of the many quick guides on Visions, you're not coming back to retail? Interesting.

no its bc theres too much micro bullshit that has to be done to be somewhat competitive...way toop much farming of ap,essences, nazjatar shit, corrupted gear, the other 10 things...why do we need all that? All u need is gear and somewhere to get it...

[Mardux]

no its bc theres too much micro bullshit that has to be done to be somewhat competitive...way toop much farming of ap,essences, nazjatar shit, corrupted gear, the other 10 things...why do we need all that? All u need is gear and somewhere to get it...

Man... if I'd have known you didnt have to farm *anything* in classic, I'd have played it 14 years ago.

Oh wait....

[Lucetia]

I could get a toon to 420 before 8.3 inside of a week with minimal play, and I'm sure plenty of people could do it way quicker than me - if you can't get an alt to at least 420, you must just not being trying to gear at all

Minimal play? You do realize that means no raids that are normal+ or mythic 4+? Otherwise you are actually putting in some effort, which no one is saying is wrong. Casual players won't be doing that. You are also taking into account that you are getting lucky. Ran times LFR 6 times over the last 3 weeks (So 6 bosses x 3 weeks x 6 toons) is 108 chances at loot with zero drops. Same for Nazjatar world boss. You can think minimal play will get you that, but it doesn't.

Simply put - if you're not at least 430 at this point, it's your own fault and 8.3 should be hard for you. Put some effort in.

You could put in effort and still not be 430. You would need things to actually drop and not be dupes in slots. Not always the case especially for casual players which the outdoor content is intended for.

[Throwme]

My overall point was don't be someone who complains about not being able to complete visions where Blizzard expects people to be geared in some form if you're not someone doing any of the 8.2 content that rewards gear.
You and @Throwme

Awww, hey, thanks for including me in that one, however, as I have stated numerous times - that was NOT why I got into this discussion. I am not not geared for this. I got my main to Cape 5 so far, so I'm doing fine. My initial comment was to someone that didn't see how anyone could not be 420 at this point. I pointed out that not everyone does content that makes their itemlevel go up, something which was also mention in the post just before yours. I never said anything about mine being too low to do visions. We totally agree that this is designed for a sort of high itemlevel and we totally agree that people should rightfully expect things to be hard if they are undergeared compared to that and we also totally agree that people shouldn't be complaining about it if they are indeed undergeared. But don't make it look like me or Lucetia is part of that last group. We are not. We merely comment on the fact that it IS possible to be undergeared at this point in the expansion for people that have actively played the parts of the expansion they like to do, like pet battles or other non-upgrading activities or, as Lucetia pointed out while I was typing this, you simply got unlucky with drops.

[DemonDays]

Someone found this and posted it in our Discord, unsure of source:

• Week 1: 2 free upgrades & use 3 jars (rank 6)
• Week 2: use 1 jar (rank 7), +2 saved (2 total)
• Week 3: use 1 jar (rank 8), +3 saved (4 total)
• Week 4: use 2 jars (rank 9), +3 saved (5 total)
• Week 5: use 2 jars (rank 10), +3 saved (6 total)
• Week 6: use 3 jars (rank 11), +3 saved (6 total)
• Week 7: use 1 jar (rank 12), +3 saved (8 total)
• Week 8: use 3 jars (rank 13), +3 saved (8 total)
• Week 9: use 6 jars (rank 14), +3 saved (5 total)
• Week 10+ use 5 jars and keep using jars as you get them until rank 15

However, this info appears to be under the assumption that the Vessels did not have the Unique(5) cap we are now aware of since that cap was not present for most of the PTR. Essentially you don't need to start "banking" Vessels until week 4 and you can still be on pace to hit rank 15 during week 10.

It's fucking hilarious that you need to bank vessels to get the cloak upgrade instead of entering the visions and experiencing the content.

What an absolutely moronic design.

[Jastall]

The only possible way to fail as a healer is to run out of sanity, and if you aren't paying attention to your sanity it's not the game's fault you tried to push something that clearly wasn't possible.

Also mage tower balance was garbage, anyone claiming otherwise did it after having tomb or even argus gear. When it initially released with just nighthold gear the balance was complete trash with some classes having a cake walk and others needing to play perfectly for the tuning so save me about how well it was designed rofl.

Still having nightmares of the tank challenge at low-ish ilvl on my Prot pally. By contrast the Ret one was really easy, and I remember the WW Monk and Destro Lock one being total faceroll.

Besides, at least Visions can be done in a party to soften the blow for people who play healers or casters.

[Lucetia]

I consider at least one +7 or higher dungeon a week minimal effort, and raids are a shit way of gearing anyways. If you're doing the right things to get gear (M+, emissaries, pvp and professions) then yes, minimal effort can get you 420. Frankly doing any kind of raid below heroic for gear is just counter productive, the quality of gear doesn't justify the time it takes

Especially now, 8.3 throws like 5 pieces of 440 gear at you within the first few hours, it gets even easier.

I personally have no issue with 8.3 being hard for people at like 420, it can't always be a cakewalk

A +7 is not minimal effort for vast majority of the player base. You are taking into account what you think vs what the player base actually is and content is designed for.

M+ most people won't even touch, especially for gearing an alt and if they do it is usually a +4 for the essence rank 1.
Emissaries are only useful for a weapon and 3x Azerite pieces which isn't enough to get you 420.
PvP, again most people won't use because it's terrible gearing and the only reliable means is Conquest cap.
Professions is a waste of time and gold to be honest and even then you get what 400?

As for doing raids below heroic, again the people the outdoor content is taking into consideration won't be doing those.

Your perception of what minimal is ≠ the actual reality of the casual player base and what Blizzard has to design around for the outdoor content.

[Throwme]

I consider at least one +7 or higher dungeon a week minimal effort

I consider one Heroic dungeon a week minimal effort. Not everyone agrees with either of us.

Especially now, 8.3 throws like 5 pieces of 440 gear at you within the first few hours, it gets even easier.

I've gotten ONE 440 item so far. Rest have been lower item levels. Yes, it becomes easier with gear, nobody is saying any differently. Only that not everyone is playing like you think they are and not everyone is at the itemlevel you think they would be.

I personally have no issue with 8.3 being hard for people at like 420, it can't always be a cakewalk

Totally agree.

[Tech614]

I've gotten ONE 440 item so far. Rest have been lower item levels. Yes, it becomes easier with gear, nobody is saying any differently. Only that not everyone is playing like you think they are and not everyone is at the itemlevel you think they would be.

While I think he is wrong about 5 440 pieces, you did get 2 guaranteed 445s from both assault boxes(3 now that the minor has reset) and the quest line also throws 440 bracers with corruption at you so that is 3 guaranteed, 4 with the minor assault reset. One is certainly wrong too. You also get a few random 430 pieces over the course of the quest lines. Come tuesday you can get a free 440 weapon for capping your conquest. Gear certainly isn't that hard to catch up on, even without doing more difficult pve content.

[Throwme]

While I think he is wrong about 5 440 pieces, you did get 2 guaranteed 445s from both assault boxes(3 now that the minor has reset) and the quest line also throws 440 bracers with corruption at you so that is 3 guaranteed, 4 with the minor assault reset. One is certainly wrong too. You also get a few random 430 pieces over the course of the quest lines. Come tuesday you can get a free 440 weapon for capping your conquest. Gear certainly isn't that hard to catch up on, even without doing more difficult pve content.

Wrong, because

Perhaps the rewards scale with item level

is the correct answer.

If a player isn't willing to do the bare minimum to get geared - and I'm sorry - one mythic + a week is the bare minimum, if you can't be bothered doing that - that's not Blizzard's fault

Anyone playing this game and enjoying what they do, can easily be geared for what they do. I do not do M+, I am not geared for higher keys. I do not raid, I am not geared for higher difficulties. I do not cap conquest, because I do not like PVP. For ME, and for what I want to do, even ONE M+ per week is far above the bare minimum YOU think everyone should be doing. Please stop pretending like your way is the only way people play this game. MANY PEOPLE play it VERY differently. I have several people on my friendslist that mostly fool around in pre-BfA content, despite being 120, or do pet dungeons because that's what THEY like to do. None of them sets foot in a M+ or Normal raid because they do not want to. And they do not complain that Visions are too hard. They actually don't really give a damn about them. Because their fun is not in the maximum itemlevel, but the pleasure of doing what they like.

And also - who are you to speak for the majority of the playerbase?

Neither of us do. Only some people pretend everyone is like them. Lucetia and I and among the ones that knows everyone plays differently.

[Tech614]

Wrong

You got anything to back it up though? Not saying they don't but please don't come here and just say "wrong" without providing the receipt for why it's wrong.