Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[PACOX]

I don't know if the US situation is better than the rest of the world. But right now i'm still not able to go out, everything is close and vaccination is still a long work in progress. Like i'm not even close to have a "real" vacation once this is over. Thanks god i'm able to work from home, but i'm not going to lie guys, i haven't been able to go out since last March.

Also, how good or bad is the one from Pfizer?. That is the one i'm going to get....some day....

The US has plateaued but its also Spring Break season, natural immunities are expiring of they haven't already and the variants are everywhere. The U.S is in a favorable spot buts there's potential for it to go bad. I think the middle ground will partially vaccinated people getting mild cases.


The problem with the Pfizer shot is logistics more than anything so far. You have to move kind of fast once it's removed from storage or it goes bad. mRNA isn't the stable outside of a cell. You feel a bit like crap for a day or two. I get my second one soon. They told whatever we felt the first time is going to be that x2. My phone hums when I place it next to my arm.

[Granyala]

And yet that's not what you're doing. If all you had said was "I'd prefer to get one of the others", there'd be no problem here.

What you may not know: In Germany, you do not get a choice. If you are under 80 years old, AZ is the only vaccine you are being offered. This is non negotiable, they have written a friggin law, reserving Moderna/Pfizer for the old farts.

From that viewpoint I actually understand his concerns. This is a major fuck-up of our country, there is no way to debate that away. People should have the option to choose but right now we don't even have an ETA on when we will be able to choose. It's ridiculous.

[Zan15]

FFS. There have been, what, 30 million or so doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine administered? And there have been, what, maybe 5 or so deaths from blood clots among recipients? There's no evidence of a causal link yet, but even if every single one of those was a direct result of the AZ vaccine, then you'd have to live in a country with some 500 million people to see 78 people die at that rate.

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I think 2 in Norway and 1 each in Sweden and Italy. I'm not really finding more instances.

Published about 15 minutes ago:

NYTimes: Should You Be Concerned About Blood Clots, Bleeding and the AZ-Vaccine?

There's more, but you get the point.

Thanks for the info.

So it seems less possibly then die from acetaminophen (tylenol) each year. Of course most of those have to do with overdoeses vs side effects.

[PhaelixWW]

What you may not know: In Germany, you do not get a choice. If you are under 80 years old, AZ is the only vaccine you are being offered. This is non negotiable, they have written a friggin law, reserving Moderna/Pfizer for the old farts.

From that viewpoint I actually understand his concerns. This is a major fuck-up of our country, there is no way to debate that away. People should have the option to choose but right now we don't even have an ETA on when we will be able to choose. It's ridiculous.

That's the point I was trying to make. I have no issue with that concern, as such. What I take issue with is people lying about the facts in order to suit their narrative. That's a totally different thing.

I'd rather take the Pfizer vaccine over the AstraZeneca one, too.

[Mayhem]

153k vaccinated in sweden with it... 6 cases of blood clots so far after vaccination...

Do I have to explain the math to you or do you understand that 6 out of 153.000 is still lower than 6 out of 10.000?

[Forogil]

FFS. There have been, what, 30 million or so doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine administered? And there have been, what, maybe 5 or so deaths from blood clots among recipients?

It's not that simple.

Some of the suspicion is that there's some issue with one or two of the latest batches of the vaccine; explaining why all of the issues have been detected during the last week. We know that AstraZeneca has had problems with the production - especially in the EU - and there could be a link between the two.
However, it may be nothing or it may be something else increasing the problem: vials, the new syringes etc.

Still 5 deaths in 1 or 2(?) million vaccinations from those batch(es) isn't that problematic; as that risk is still more than an order of magnitude below the risk of dying of covid-19 in those age groups. However, we need to know if that was a batch-specific issue, general issue, or nothing - and if the risk stays it doesn't seem like a good idea to vaccinate children.

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What you may not know: In Germany, you do not get a choice. If you are under 80 years old, AZ is the only vaccine you are being offered. This is non negotiable, they have written a friggin law, reserving Moderna/Pfizer for the old farts.

I can understand that they don't let you choose - but I would assume they are soon done with the 80 year olds; and as soon as they start vaccinating the general population (and not only risk groups) it will be a mix of the three - and not so much AstraZeneca in the mix due to lack of deliveries.

And it certainly makes sense to do it like that based on the available evidence (or lack thereof for the elderly) at the time. I still don't understand why the uk used AstraZeneca primarily for the elderly and Pfizer/BioNTech for the younger ones; even though the uk authorized AstraZeneca first and started with the elderly.

[StayTuned]

Nobody here is claiming the the AstraZeneca vaccine is the best of them. I would, however, point out that the AZ vaccine is the latest of those three, and with vaccine news recently being disproportionately dominated by these reports of rare side effects, it's only natural that they're being reported more than ever. Self-reporting bias is a thing.

Again, that's not to say that there aren't legitimately more issues with the AZ vaccine. But they're still not common, despite your characterization.

Stop strawmanning. I didn't say it was "common", I was saying out of all the options it's the worst we have, and Germany is doing a piss poor job of getting the more effective and in general simply better vaccines.

This is just asinine. Every vaccine is under continued "investigation". Some countries issuing a temporary suspension isn't the same as being "pulled from the market". There's no "high suspicion" of causation. And blood clots are still rare with the vaccine, not "otherwise" rare.

I mean, seriously, you're just pointing out your own exaggerations here.

What are you even talking about? Of course all of them are under investigation, but AZ was literally pulled off the market for now. Can you get it, or not?

Again, nobody is claiming it's the best vaccine option. You're sneering at 70% effective, but that's just because you have no clue what you're talking about. The goal here was 50%. Flu vaccines, for example, are less effective on average.

And yes, it's good to have a cheaper option. That will be of immense importance worldwide.

Man fk with that noise. I am sneering at 70% because others are reporting to have 95%. I don't give a fuck a bout the flu vaccine, this isn't the flu.

It's been a long time since I've heard the "I'm rubber and you're glue" comeback. How very gradeschool.

Because that's better than what you're doing right? Being obtuse as fuck and on purpose downplaying pretty much all the shit that has been going on with AZ just to have a point.

And yet that's not what you're doing. If all you had said was "I'd prefer to get one of the others", there'd be no problem here. Instead, you're lying about the facts to try and get a "told you so" moment, that you're desperate for.

I literally presented you sources and you still say I'm lying and making up alternative facts. What the hell man. Welcome to ignore.

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I can understand that they don't let you choose - but I would assume they are soon done with the 80 year olds; and as soon as they start vaccinating the general population (and not only risk groups) it will be a mix of the three - and not so much AstraZeneca in the mix due to lack of deliveries.

And it certainly makes sense to do it like that based on the available evidence (or lack thereof for the elderly) at the time. I still don't understand why the uk used AstraZeneca primarily for the elderly and Pfizer/BioNTech for the younger ones; even though the uk authorized AstraZeneca first and started with the elderly.

No, they're not. It's becoming a scandal right now. We're nowhere near close to being finished with ANYBODY. I need to look it up, but I think we're bottom 5 of the EU countries in terms of speed and general % of population vaccinated from what I've seen in the news some days ago.

[ParanoiD84]

Sweden have now stopped or paused all vaccines from Astra Zenecas, seems there is some side effects there. And the side effects will be looked at by EMA.

[Forogil]

No, they're not. It's becoming a scandal right now. We're nowhere near close to being finished with ANYBODY. I need to look it up, but I think we're bottom 5 of the EU countries in terms of speed and general % of population vaccinated from what I've seen in the news some days ago.

According to https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations Germany is approximately at the EU-average; which isn't odd when the doses are distributed equally. Obviously being at 10.58 doses per hundred is a bit below the EU-average of 10.93, but not scandalously bad.
(The overall rate for EU is another matter.)

Clearly Malta (and to a lesser extent Hungary, Denmark, and Estonia) are ahead in the EU, but apart from Hungary they are smaller densely populated countries. And Latvia seems to be lagging far behind.

[PhaelixWW]

Stop strawmanning. I didn't say it was "common", I was saying out of all the options it's the worst we have, and Germany is doing a piss poor job of getting the more effective and in general simply better vaccines.

No strawman here. You said blood clots were "otherwise" rare, which absolutely characterizes your statement of them as "not rare" with the vaccine. Attempting to quibble between "common" and "not rare" when you chose not to include any more specific qualifiers in the first place is kind of a non-starter.

What are you even talking about? Of course all of them are under investigation, but AZ was literally pulled off the market for now. Can you get it, or not?

Nope, I can't. Because they were not "literally" pulled off the market. I don't think you actually understand what that term means.

Man fk with that noise. I am sneering at 70% because others are reporting to have 95%. I don't give a fuck a bout the flu vaccine, this isn't the flu.

The FDA's goal was 50%. The EMA's goal was 50%. Scientists don't give a fuck about you not giving a fuck.

Because that's better than what you're doing right? Being obtuse as fuck and on purpose downplaying pretty much all the shit that has been going on with AZ just to have a point.

Not foaming at the mouth over exaggerations and incorrect data is not "being obtuse" or "downplaying", lol.

I literally presented you sources and you still say I'm lying and making up alternative facts. What the hell man. Welcome to ignore.

Posting some facts doesn't make the other lies you present any less wrong. It's not like I refuted everything you posted.

And go ahead and ignore the truth. That's pretty on point, I'd say.

[StayTuned]

According to https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations Germany is approximately at the EU-average; which isn't odd when the doses are distributed equally. Obviously being at 10.58 doses per hundred is a bit below the EU-average of 10.93, but not scandalously bad.
(The overall rate for EU is another matter.)

Clearly Malta (and to a lesser extent Hungary, Denmark, and Estonia) are ahead in the EU, but apart from Hungary they are smaller densely populated countries. And Latvia seems to be lagging far behind.

Well sure if I compare Germany to Afghanistan we're probably good? Joking... but still, look at this

https://de.euronews.com/2021/03/12/d...gegen-covid-19

We're losing out to

• Serbia
• Malta
• Norway
• Poland
• Denmark
• Slovakia
• Iceland
• Estonia
• Greece
• Hungary
• Romania
• Slovenia

And then comes Germany.

I mean yes, we're somewhere in the middle of the EU average, but this is Germany. I can understand Norway or Denkmark doing a better job. But Serbia of all places? Worse than Romania? What are our politicians doing?

Reminder that this is data for FULL vaccinations, so two shots.

[Gaidax]

We got some numbers revealed.

Israel has spent ~750m dollars on vaccine deals with Phizer and Moderna so far.

Nice lump of money.

[markos82]

Well sure if I compare Germany to Afghanistan we're probably good? Joking... but still, look at this

https://de.euronews.com/2021/03/12/d...gegen-covid-19

We're losing out to

• Serbia
• Malta
• Norway
• Poland
• Denmark
• Slovakia
• Iceland
• Estonia
• Greece
• Hungary
• Romania
• Slovenia

And then comes Germany.

I mean yes, we're somewhere in the middle of the EU average, but this is Germany. I can understand Norway or Denkmark doing a better job. But Serbia of all places? Worse than Romania? What are our politicians doing?

Reminder that this is data for FULL vaccinations, so two shots.

You really believe that Serbia has vaccinated that many people? You are basically from the similar country ( Croatia) and you believe everything you read...
Tell me if that is true, how can we ( Serbia) get from 1000 new cases a day before vaccination started to 5000? Something doesn't add up, either vaccine isnt working and is contributing to new cases, they are lieing about the numbers vaccinated or they lied about previous numbers...

[Forogil]

I mean yes, we're somewhere in the middle of the EU average, but this is Germany. I can understand Norway or Denkmark doing a better job. But Serbia of all places? Worse than Romania? What are our politicians doing?

I agree that it isn't ideal, but my point was that apart from tiny Malta the difference between the top-EU countries (Poland, Denmark, etc) and Germany isn't scandalously large - just 4.1 vs 3.3, and this is not a 100 m race where being first is all that matters.

It might be that the vaccine hesitancy in Germany has contributed.

Reminder that this is data for FULL vaccinations, so two shots.

That mainly pushes the uk from first to almost last place.

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You really believe that Serbia has vaccinated that many people? You are basically from the similar country ( Croatia) and you believe everything you read...
Tell me if that is true, how can we ( Serbia) get from 1000 new cases a day before vaccination started to 5000? Something doesn't add up, either vaccine isnt working and is contributing to new cases, they are lieing about the numbers vaccinated or they lied about previous numbers...

You missed:
(d) All of the above.

As for the other points:

• Serbia is using the Sinofarm vaccine which some claim have 80% efficacy (can't remember if it was the same or other Chinese vaccine that some trial had at 50.4% - which was better than the target of 50%).
  https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/...hanks-to-china
• Many(almost all?) European countries are seeing increasing case numbers (regardless of other measures) - possibly due to new variants. However, by targeted vaccinations the death numbers are declining. In Serbia both seem to be increasing, which is concerning - I don't know exactly who they targeted.

[Granyala]

I'd rather take the Pfizer vaccine over the AstraZeneca one, too.

If only I had that option.
I still wonder what I will do on the 29th (assuming that AZ is back in the race at that point).

Listen to my concerns and wait for an unknown amount of time until other options are available (and risk getting the disease as a risk patient) or trust the judgment of the professionals and plow through my doubts until I reach the vaccination center.

Then again, I never asked what possible side effects were to be had when I vaccinated against the measles 2 years ago either.

[markos82]

You missed:
(d) All of the above.

As for the other points:

• Serbia is using the Sinofarm vaccine which some claim have 80% efficacy (can't remember if it was the same or other Chinese vaccine that some trial had at 50.4% - which was better than the target of 50%).
  https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/...hanks-to-china
• Many(almost all?) European countries are seeing increasing case numbers (regardless of other measures) - possibly due to new variants. However, by targeted vaccinations the death numbers are declining. In Serbia both seem to be increasing, which is concerning - I don't know exactly who they targeted.

Well not everyone is getting Sinopharm, most people I know either got Astra or Pfizer.
New variant can't contribute to 500% increase when 2m people are vaccinated or some 35% if you exclude people that are not getting vaccinated ( kids under 14 or even more) and if I remember right 1m got 2nd dose..

[StayTuned]

You really believe that Serbia has vaccinated that many people? You are basically from the similar country ( Croatia) and you believe everything you read...
Tell me if that is true, how can we ( Serbia) get from 1000 new cases a day before vaccination started to 5000? Something doesn't add up, either vaccine isnt working and is contributing to new cases, they are lieing about the numbers vaccinated or they lied about previous numbers...

puhh I hoenstly don't know? I mean, knowing our countries and how fking corrupted we are, nothing would surprise me. Serbia might as well be lying about their numbers but I believe you have to report these to official institutions and continue to also to report to some sort of EU regulators? I would find it hard to keep manipulation secret when you're topping the charts. Either way, since numbers are being reported from official sources, I tend to generally trust them, yes.

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I agree that it isn't ideal, but my point was that apart from tiny Malta the difference between the top-EU countries (Poland, Denmark, etc) and Germany isn't scandalously large - just 4.1 vs 3.3, and this is not a 100 m race where being first is all that matters.

It might be that the vaccine hesitancy in Germany has contributed.

You might wanna check German media and the general outcry from the public. At some point, elderly had to make online appointments. A 90+ granny gotta go online to get the shot. gEniUs move.

Then the states also offered phone lines, where depending on where in Germany you exactly are, you either:

A) Never actually get through to someone
B) Don't actually get an appointment because the vax center closest to you has no shots left
C) You got an appointment to drive 50+km because you're a village dweller and that's how far away your next center is, and home doctors aren't allowed to administer Covid vaccines (wtf??)

Then some states had so little vaccine left over, that you had to enter a freaking tombola to WIN a slot. Oh god...

On the other hand, MeckPom I think ( or some other state not sure ) is using Eventim ( large organizer of events and ticket sales for concerts etc. ) to manage their Corona appointment hotline and it's going great. They're even saying Eventim could handle all of Germany no problem, their systems can handle it... but nobody is taking them up on their offer, probably because they're expensive. I have no idea.

Germany slept through the order phase of the vaccines, signed incredibly bad contracts with AZ for their product, did a piss poor job of setting the system up that helps everyone get vaccinated in an orderly fashion, and didn't properly manage to find large scale solutions from other sources.

Couple that together with maybe the worst Corona Hygiene Concepts in western Europe and it's no wonder people are starting to lose their shit.

[Pann]

Well who'd have thunk... the good guys at Pfizer see an opportunity to increase vaccine prices...


https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/pf...e-price-2021-3

[Forogil]

Well not everyone is getting Sinopharm, most people I know either got Astra or Pfizer.

Ok.

New variant can't contribute to 500% increase when 2m people are vaccinated or some 35% if you exclude people that are not getting vaccinated ( kids under 14 or even more) and if I remember right 1m got 2nd dose..

Exponential growth combined with a new variant spreading 30-60% more might do that.

We will see if the new lockdown will change that - https://www.novinite.com/articles/20...ol+Covid+Spike

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C) You got an appointment to drive 50+km because you're a village dweller and that's how far away your next center is, and home doctors aren't allowed to administer Covid vaccines (wtf??)

Actually I believe that could make sense. For some reasons some vaccines seemed to be delivered in vials with several doses (5, 6, or 6.25, ...) so you sort of need to handle that somewhat centrally to avoid leftovers.

On the other hand, MeckPom I think ( or some other state not sure ) is using Eventim ( large organizer of events and ticket sales for concerts etc. ) to manage their Corona appointment hotline and it's going great. They're even saying Eventim could handle all of Germany no problem, their systems can handle it... but nobody is taking them up on their offer, probably because they're expensive. I have no idea.

Seems like a good idea, as I would expect that such event organizers generally have less work at the moment - due to lack of concerts.
(A year ago they were likely busy with cancellations - but that should be cleared up now.)

Shame that the other states don't use it.

[Yunru]

Well who'd have thunk... the good guys at Pfizer see an opportunity to increase vaccine prices...


https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/pf...e-price-2021-3

The real question is who is gona pay for it.