Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Magical Mudcrab]

The irony in these two assertions is palpable.

It's cute how you are so angry because you didn't read sources and were called out for it, and now are trying to quote snipe and be sassy. Go sit in the corner with the other people who aren't equipped to have a discourse on this subject, some people are trying to have a serious discussion (at least, as serious as you can on MMOChamp).

[Acidbaron]

It's cute how you are so angry because you didn't read sources and were called out for it, and now are trying to quote snipe and be sassy. Go sit in the corner with the other people who aren't equipped to have a discourse on this subject, some people are trying to have a serious discussion (at least, as serious as you can on MMOChamp).

There's a big 'US government can do no wrong' vibe coming from certain posters. Same people are quick to assume that other governments made mistakes or have incompetent people in charge, funny how that is.

At the end of the day the US power structure is based on strong relationship with Europe, we'll see yet another 'apology tour' if a democrat wins seems they are the sensible ones.

[PhaelixWW]

It's cute how you are so angry because you didn't read sources and were called out for it, and now are trying to quote snipe and be sassy. Go sit in the corner with the other people who aren't equipped to have a discourse on this subject, some people are trying to have a serious discussion (at least, as serious as you can on MMOChamp).

Your "source" was garbage. Your claims are factually wrong. And now you're trying to handwave and bully people who call you on it with crass ad hominems.

The idea that you're interested in a serious discussion is laughable.

[Krastyn]

Another fantastic start from this fallacious fiend, who continues to poison the well while lying about what his sources say. 10/10, good start.

And another handwave by a poster who can't actually verify the information he's posting about.

They have already backed down from their initial statements which implies they themselves can't even back up their claims. Yet you're still full on board with the original comments. The well was poisoned before you even posted.

I've not seen these actions being taken on this scale; multiple western nations are claiming the US is intentionally doing this, and this has caused countries like Brazil to run out of medical resources without the ability to resupply for weeks - at least. If it needs to be broken down why the US doing this is abhorrent, then you obviously do not care about the well-being of less prosperous nations; whether this is simply a lack of empathy, or simply good-old racism, is to be seen.

So is your claim that no other country has outbid any other country on any contract?

Once again. In a shortage situation, someone is going to get the short end of the stick. It's literally what the word means.

Nice attempted shot at my character though. For someone who seems very concerned about poisoning the well, it seems an odd flex.

What countries? If you have sources for some, post them. I'll look at what they've stopped exporting and give them shit if it's relevant. As it currently stands, America is the only world power doing this to the point that it makes some countries simply unable to purchase medical supplies.

Feel free to read the thread, where it has been talked about several times already. Or you can Google it. Here's one story from a month ago.

So you're late to the par

[QUOTE=Magical Mudcrab;52228496]Aside from the fact that Germany has reported that the resources were diverted to a country that is already purchasing sold items, and the distributors renege on agreements. I'll grant you that Germany has not produced any documents showing they're definitely stolen as of yet, and that's something I've consistently been saying, but it's incredibly suspicious.[/.QUOTE]

So nothing that the US stole them, currently the best thing you have to accuse the US of is that possibly a German supplier sent some stuff to the US instead of Germany, but this is the fault of the US, not the company itself. Even if that's actually what happened, which still hasn't even been confirmed.

It's almost like the source you linked stated that the US wants to purchase these supplies "until we have way too much". I understand how America's actions in this case may seem like it wouldn't cause any more of a disturbance, but the problem is you have one country buying the supplies of multiple countries at inflated costs; the US has effectively made the price a bidding war that impoverished or otherwise less wealthy nations cannot compete with, on top of the issues related to supply.

So as pointed out already in the thread, one unnamed, unverifiable source in the Department of Homeland Security, who may or may not have any role whatsoever i
had 6 words quoted out of everything they talked about, with no other context or information of the discussion, about oversupplying above a level that no one knows what is, or for how long.

Do you not see how incredibly flimsy this is? Or how it just happens to fit the narrative of the story?

Again, you have not read the article you posted.
The supplies to Germany, from what they have said, were paid for and was diverted.

With no information as to why, or by who. So until this is known, you're guessing at best.

It's the supplies to France and Brazil that are being cancelled by suppliers, because the US is offering multiple times the price after agreements had already been signed.

Is this the France shipment that was already shown in the thread to have not been delayed because of this?

What a ridiculous way to try and flagrantly handwave malicious actions by a world power. Other world powers are donating excess equipment, including Germany and China who are sending excess ventilators to some of the most afflicted countries. The only country that's trying to procure a surplus at the expense of allies seems to be America.

And as shown, some countries like Germany have restricted exports on some supplies, until they are at a level they are comfortable with (which happened long before this).

How do you expect a supplier to supply? First come first serve? Highest bidder?

[Grokk]

The info was out there, long incubation period. Cases popped up in Detroit. You've been exposed most likely. So instead of hunkering down for the ride, "I'll take my ass up north where there are few medical facilities where it's safe." Barn doors and horses spring to mind. They're spreading it further with their antics.

I have this sick feeling that people hiding in their cabins up north, their deer camp bullshit...later this year someone is gonna find some bodies. Shit out of luck idiot bodies.

I suppose time will bear this out one way or another. Do you have any links to articles stating how many people chose to go this route? I guess I'm just not sure how verifiable the numbers are as to how many people traveled from southern Michigan to the north and the UP solely to escape Covid19 as opposed to people that traveled north for any other variety of reasons (family/work/etc).

We can agree I would assume that hopefully the cases will stay minimal.

If a few bodies are found in cabins later this year due to not being able to get treatment for lack of hospitals that is certainly sad but also a case of where they knew the risks. Again, I don't think this will be a very high number but I base that on nothing but a gut feeling.

[Poopymonster]

I suppose time will bear this out one way or another. Do you have any links to articles stating how many people chose to go this route? I guess I'm just not sure how verifiable the numbers are as to how many people traveled from southern Michigan to the north and the UP solely to escape Covid19 as opposed to people that traveled north for any other variety of reasons (family/work/etc).

We can agree I would assume that hopefully the cases will stay minimal.

If a few bodies are found in cabins later this year due to not being able to get treatment for lack of hospitals that is certainly sad but also a case of where they knew the risks. Again, I don't think this will be a very high number but I base that on nothing but a gut feeling.

No data. Friends that still live in Michigan, north of Flint meaning out of "Civilization", say they've seen a lot more traffic heading north than normal. Small tourist trap town areas (example: all of Huron County) suddenly seeing their "Summer folks" magically appearing. In March. Without the cleaning crews "tidying up" their summer cabins first.

[Grokk]

No data. Friends that still live in Michigan, north of Flint meaning out of "Civilization", say they've seen a lot more traffic heading north than normal. Small tourist trap town areas (example: all of Huron County) suddenly seeing their "Summer folks" magically appearing. In March. Without the cleaning crews "tidying up" their summer cabins first.

Ah ok, thank you for the clarification. Not being from Michigan I just wasn't sure about the normal traffic flows from one part of the state to another.

Stay safe my friend. Best to you and your loved ones.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Your "source" was garbage. Your claims are factually wrong. And now you're trying to handwave and bully people who call you on it with crass ad hominems.

The idea that you're interested in a serious discussion is laughable.

When people make false claims about a source they try and use to justify a position and they are called out about it, that is not ad hominem.
When people make arguments which either result - implicitly or explicitly - in possibly racist policies and they are called out about it, that is not ad hominem.
Neither of the above is also bullying.
CNN and The Washington Post are both highly reliable news outlets.

I'm sorry if you're offended by my calling out of America's actions - and the flaws in what people say to try and defend them - but the overwhelming majority of what I've seen from you in this thread is either misinformed as you did not read the sources provided, or follow the thread of comments you then deigned to weigh in on, sarcastic messages, or links to sources that you don't expound upon.

[Poopymonster]

Ah ok, thank you for the clarification. Not being from Michigan I just wasn't sure about the normal traffic flows from one part of the state to another.

Stay safe my friend. Best to you and your loved ones.

Thank you for them. I don't live there. I was imported and got out of that shithole state as soon as I could. Since immediate family moved from MI, I'm only going back for weddings or funerals.

[Benggaul]

You are correct per capita we are not but the sheer percentage (37-38%) of such a large population which is obese puts a lot of people at risk. It also doesn't take into account people who are overweight near obese but not quite.

Yes, but I agreed with you there in the second paragraph.

[Magical Mudcrab]

And another handwave by a poster who can't actually verify the information he's posting about.

They have already backed down from their initial statements which implies they themselves can't even back up their claims. Yet you're still full on board with the original comments. The well was poisoned before you even posted.

You linked a source, not knowing what it said, and now are incredibly defensive about conclusions I've begun looking at after reading that source. I have only referenced your CNN article, and a Washington Post article that corroborates the content, both of which say basically the same thing. If you wish to attack my conclusions from those articles, you're free to, but you've yet to actually show how the articles are wrong or what I've quoted from the articles is wrong. You've only gone on tangents and backtracked on the validity of your own source.

So is your claim that no other country has outbid any other country on any contract?

Once again. In a shortage situation, someone is going to get the short end of the stick. It's literally what the word means.

Nice attempted shot at my character though. For someone who seems very concerned about poisoning the well, it seems an odd flex.

This is, again, a reading comprehension issue on your end. Never did I say no country has out bid another on resources, the fact that there was bidding at all means that there necessarily was out bidding involved. The assertion is that I have made is that what the US is doing - which is approaching companies after the bidding has concluded and then proceeds to make such high offers that even other Western nations cannot compete - is abhorrent.

Though Western nations should not have to, they will find alternative routes to obtain medical supplies or will have to attempt and pay the exorbitant prices the US is, which wont be sustainable for most countries. The position you seem to hold is implicitly supporting the denial of resources to developing and less well-off nations, generally non-white, essentially denying them access to medical supplies. Perhaps tribalism would be a better description, but I think America's disregard for non-Americans would be more aptly described as racism.

Feel free to read the thread, where it has been talked about several times already. Or you can Google it. Here's one story from a month ago.

So you're late to the par

Then this is something we can agree on, I 100% think that Germany suggesting the banning of medical equipment is abhorrent too; however, they also lifted the ban less than two weeks later (Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2162SH).

So nothing that the US stole them, currently the best thing you have to accuse the US of is that possibly a German supplier sent some stuff to the US instead of Germany, but this is the fault of the US, not the company itself. Even if that's actually what happened, which still hasn't even been confirmed.

I don't know how you're having issues processing this: Yes, Germany could be wrong, and I've not discounted that possibility; however, until we know what happened, I'm going to err on the side of Germany, as it seems that the US is paying companies to renege on agreements.

So as pointed out already in the thread, one unnamed, unverifiable source in the Department of Homeland Security, who may or may not have any role whatsoever i
had 6 words quoted out of everything they talked about, with no other context or information of the discussion, about oversupplying above a level that no one knows what is, or for how long.

Do you not see how incredibly flimsy this is? Or how it just happens to fit the narrative of the story?

So you simply do not know that journalists at major publications need to vet their sources, and simply because it goes counter to what you want to believe, you will openly disregard what a source says? Gotcha.

With no information as to why, or by who. So until this is known, you're guessing at best.

I'm not even guessing, I'm just putting faith in what Germany said as I wait for confirmation. I've even said - multiple times, which you seem to have just overlooked - that I'm open to this being a clerical error on Germany's side.

Is this the France shipment that was already shown in the thread to have not been delayed because of this?

It's good that you mentioned France, and not Brazil that was unable to secure more medical supplies and will simply be out of them for weeks. Phew, that was a close one.

And as shown, some countries like Germany have restricted exports on some supplies, until they are at a level they are comfortable with (which happened long before this).

And, as I linked above, was lifted.

How do you expect a supplier to supply? First come first serve? Highest bidder?

It's not the suppliers fault, it's America's. That's the thing you're not getting. America is going behind the backs of allied nations and paying suppliers to renege on agreements, essentially cancelling orders that had already been made. This is leading to uncertainty and an inability to get access to supplies by less wealthy nations. It's incredibly telling that people seem to be skirting around this, as it's indefensible.

[Krastyn]

China is distributing its surplus, a surplus that was obtained when they were the only afflicted nation. America is currently - while the pandemic is ongoing and not slowing down for some countries - simply hoarding, and denying other countries the ability to purchase equipment. These are not equitable situations.

A surplus that drained the current supply levels and contributed to the shortage, and are now able to selectively distribute it as they see fit.

You're preemptively saying that once the US got to the similar position, they wouldn't offer aid.

[PhaelixWW]

When people make false claims about a source they try and use to justify a position and they are called out about it, that is not ad hominem.
When people make arguments which either result - implicitly or explicitly - in possibly racist policies and they are called out about it, that is not ad hominem.
Neither of the above is also bullying.

What is this garbled nonsense?

I called you out about your "source". That's not the ad hominem, your response to that was the ad hominem.
"Possible racist policies"? WT-actual-F?

No, the ad hominem was your childish attempt to relegate me to the "corner", as you put it.

CNN and The Washington Post are both highly reliable news outlets.

Oh, I see. You're confused. No, CNN and the Washington Post are news outlets reporting on the subject. The source was your anonymous bureaucrat.

What's embarrassing for you is that the WaPo article you posted doesn't support your assertion.

But what's even more embarrassing for you is that you apparently can't tell the difference between CNN and CBC, which was the link you provided.

Regardless, the CBC article doesn't make the claims you're making, either. They simply reported on an unfounded, anonymous claim, because they, unlike you, understand that doing more would be flying in the face of any notion of journalistic integrity.

the overwhelming majority of what I've seen from you in this thread is either misinformed as you did not read the sources provided, or follow the thread of comments you then deigned to weigh in on, sarcastic messages, or links to sources that you don't expound upon.

BwahahahaHAHAHAHAHAhahah...

This, right here, is so hilariously and obviously incorrect that I just can't take you even remotely seriously anymore.

[Tuor]

In my town:
2 confirmed cases, its spreading from nearby municipalities to here.

Holly mother of fucking Christ it just raised to 4 cases, not counting the ones that are at the hospital from nearby municipalities.

[RobertoCarlos]

Holly mother of fucking Christ it just raised to 4 cases, not counting the ones that are at the hospital from nearby municipalities.

Its gonna spread everywhere so no point getting all worked up

[xenogear3]

Holly mother of fucking Christ it just raised to 4 cases, not counting the ones that are at the hospital from nearby municipalities.

When you see 2 cockroaches in your kitchen, do you really believe that is all?

If you see just one, it is hundreds !

[Magical Mudcrab]

What is this garbled nonsense?

I called you out about your "source". That's not the ad hominem, your response to that was the ad hominem.
"Possible racist policies"? WT-actual-F?

No, the ad hominem was your childish attempt to relegate me to the "corner", as you put it.

That's not an ad hominem. You've not presented any legitimate arguments so far, you've just sort of been an obnoxious troll.

Oh, I see. You're confused. No, CNN and the Washington Post are news outlets reporting on the subject. The source was your anonymous bureaucrat.

What's embarrassing for you is that the WaPo article you posted doesn't support your assertion.

But what's even more embarrassing for you is that you apparently can't tell the difference between CNN and CBC, which was the link you provided.

Regardless, the CBC article doesn't make the claims you're making, either. They simply reported on an unfounded, anonymous claim, because they, unlike you, understand that doing more would be flying in the face of any notion of journalistic integrity.

You're right, it's CBC, I've been misattributing. Thank you for pointing that out. That said, it doesn't change the article's content. They're still a good source -- I put faith in their vetting process for their anonymous sources. You can play the pedant all you want, but you've still not attacked any of the assertions I've made. What's more, the only thing the Washington Post article doesn't corroborate is the anonymous source, so I'm not sure why you're saying they disagree with assertions based on the CBC article.

BwahahahaHAHAHAHAHAhahah...

This, right here, is so hilariously and obviously incorrect that I just can't take you even remotely seriously anymore.

So, this is why I was dismissive of you. You've written a lot, but you've made no real argument. You've basically just tried to distract from the topic, likely because you have no thoughts on the topic matter. You did correct my misattribution, which I'm thankful for, but other than that you've not made a valid case for yourself.

[Puupi]

Boris Johnson hospitalized O_O

[Magical Mudcrab]

A surplus that drained the current supply levels and contributed to the shortage, and are now able to selectively distribute it as they see fit.

You're preemptively saying that once the US got to the similar position, they wouldn't offer aid.

The aid the US can offer after the fact isn't helpful when countries have no medical supplies *now*, and the US is to blame for this through their predatory practices. China's aid is coming now, when it's relevant to countries need.

[Thepersona]

Fucking relax, FFS.

Two days ago: 3M will continue to export masks to Canada: White House trade adviser Peter Navarro

Will they export to latin america too?