Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[minteK917]

The saddest part of all this is if Trump handled the virus correctly he would be winning by a landslide, if you look at the countries where the virus was handled well their leader's approval ratings are at an all time high.

Not only that, they now just point at America and go: See the United states, we were harsh, yes the government has more debt because we paid for people not having jobs, but we made sure the spread was minimal and reduced deaths. (My own country now and most others lol.) Some of them got 60-80+% approval nearing the end of a term lmao, its fucking hiallrious, because its double dip credit thanks to trump. My provincial prime minister had a ridiculous 90% approval rating all the way to june and now hes at 81% with two years left to his first term. Those numbers are ridiculous haha.

Federal wise, Trudeau literally just lost majority last election and got less total vote than conservative party. Would you just look at that hes at 76-79% approval rating lmao, numbers he didnt even reach on his first majority term. Trump making it too easy for other politicians.

[Tuor]

That's not even remotely what a fallacy is.

Some say it's not, some say it is...
https://medium.com/@bharatkumar.m/po...y-2432d328709b
During my psychology classes i was pressented with this as being one, so, i'm obviously biassed.

People are hardly ever "tricked" by a first impression. The mind processes a lot of data, and a first impression is made in a split second based on observable data. A person may change their mind based upon more complete subsequent data, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that the initial impression was made on actual data.

It's a fallacy because independently of the person, people always judge with the few information they have, normally, the visual aspects, it's not a conscient fallacy but a subconscient one, one that we can't actually controll (except you trained for it).
In other words, its the same as having a pre-programed software loaded in your computer, and the output of the software is always the same, in this came, you always judge people.

The human mind makes a first impression largely based on sight only because that's the majority of the data that one has in that split second. It's ridiculous to say the the mind prioritizes sight, though. Scent is more closely linked to memory, and when a scent is present at the moment of a first impression, it can and does play a huge part. This is why realtors bake cookies before an open house.

You make assumptions based on your previous beliefs, if you don't like people sweeting and suddently you meet a sweety guy, you going to dislike him independitly of what the guy really is. Why do you think door to door salesman normally always use a suit?

Because they're wildly different viruses. I mean, I literally laid out the reasoning for you two months ago when you tried to make the bad comparison:

I compared 2 viruses with i high reproductive number, one was controlled the other is still yet to be controlled, the point was about controlling the virus, i still think we could have achived that, at least with one more month of quarantine (the quarantine is meant to homonogeise the human behavior, because the virus takes profict of our social behavior). Sadly, at the time being, we already out of time.

I still think its valid comparison, because i wasn't comparing the viruses directly.
______________________________________________________________________

Hopefully you didn't argued about the sars-cov-2 Vs hurricane comparison, i'm glad that you finally understood that THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, one the reaction you were descriving was mostly of chemical activity and the one we living is not. That was the point from the beggining.

[Flarelaine]

It is difficult to imagine, that one man can be such a detriment to the very society he swore to serve. I wonder if the same could happen in Germany.

It already has.

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Let me remind everyone again that religion is a forbidden topic.

[Granyala]

It already has.

If you are referring to Adolf, those were different circumstances.

[szechuan]

Corona DeSantis getting shamed.

[Adam Jensen]

If you are referring to Adolf, those were different circumstances.

Was it though?

Germany was in dire straits and the German people therefore turned to a man who claimed to have the only solution
The United States was (perceived to be) in dire straits and the American people therefore turned to a man who claimed to have the only solution.

Both Hitler and Trump:
- Demonized groups of people as a malicious "other" set to destroy the country
- Declared all press critical of them as "lugenpresse" or lying press, fake news
- Made heavy use of lies and propaganda
- Claimed a monopoly on nationalism
- Demonized all political opponents in the same way they demonized minorities
- Used fear and anger at massed rallies to gain support
- Made a mockery of established democratic institutions

There's enough similarity between Trump and Hitler (of the late 1920s, early 30s) to be worried.

[Felya]

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

Because he and GOP did it to Obama. If you read the shit Trump and GOP said about Obama in regards to Ebola, to scare up the vote in 2014, you will be at least disappointed that it’s not happening now. Trump believed it was a hoax, because he did it to Obama.

It’s how you can tell people are hard core Trump supporters in disguise. If they bring up how Ebola just disappeared, after threatening millions of lives due to Obama inaction, they are likely a Trump supporter.

This is why:

U.S. Republicans look to gain election ground on Ebola
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...0IA0BB20141021

“Using Ebola is part of an attempt to turn this into a national election and tie it to President Obama’s performance,” said Steven Schier, a politics professor at Carleton College in Minnesota. “If the Republicans can make this a national election, that makes it more dangerous for Democrats and could have a real effect up and down the ballot.”

The issue has spilled into campaign debates, speeches and a campaign ads as polls show rising public concern over Ebola. An Oct 16 Reuters/Ipsos poll showed nearly 80 percent of respondents were concerned Ebola.

“One way for the Democrats to keep the Senate was to control the narrative of the election,” said Kyle Kondik of the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics. “Clearly they do not control the narrative, which essentially now is one crisis.”

https://psmag.com/news/ebola-fears-h...-2014-election
EBOLA FEARS HELPED THE GOP IN 2014 ELECTION

In the journal Psychological Science, Beall and his colleagues present evidence for these trends in the form of three studies. They begin by noting that the first case of Ebola in the United States was announced on September 30, 2014—just over a month before the November election. Three additional cases were announced in October, leading to massive news coverage that produced levels of fear disproportionate to the actual risk.

"One mid-October poll showed that 65 percent of Americans feared a widespread Ebola epidemic," the researchers note. While this threat was never real, Google Trends data found that "on one day during mid-October, Americans searched for 'Ebola' even more than they searched for 'porn'."

"Seven-day time periods characterized by especially heavy volumes of Ebola-related Internet searchers were also characterized by especially substantial increases in U.S. voters' intentions to vote for Republican candidates for the House of Representatives," they write.

While it can't be said for certain that the same dynamic will play out in future elections, the results at least tentatively suggest that an outbreak of some new infectious disease—if hyped in the media, and thus perceived as a threat—would likely help Donald Trump, at least in areas where he's already reasonably popular.

In the longer run, the dynamic could be good news for conservative candidates in general. Given that the GOP downplays the existence of climate change, and that climate change will likely lead to an increase in infectious diseases, the result could be a pernicious cycle in which fear rewards ignorance.

That kind of epidemic may be the most frightening of all.

[Granyala]

Was it though?

With Adolf setting the historical precedent, I'd expect people to be smarter nowadays. Esp in Germany, where you get drumrolled with Nazi history.
Though I may be, yet again, expecting too much. Populistic parties always existed and usually promised a quick fix in times of crisis.

As for his rise to power: I doubt that would work in today's political landscape.

[Felya]

As for his rise to power: I doubt that would work in today's political landscape.

Noting that the catalyst for Hitler’s rise, is said to be his speech in a bar. While Steve Bannon has written that his political tact in electing Trump, relied on his observation of WoW players. If we consider that WoW is a kin to a modern version of a gathering spot for young men, like a bar was. Bannon, and thus Trump, tapped into very similar angst and dissolution, that Hitler did.

[Elegiac]

We were prepared.

We had a whole playbook and everything. We were wholly prepared for all of this.

But Orange Fuckface decided to throw that all away because "it might hurt his re-election chances" (at least, in his tiny sized brain anyways)

Mmm....No. I actually don't agree with you.

The United States is not capable of dealing with a pandemic by default for a number of reasons.

1) A large population regularly in the throes of anti-science beliefs that already dismisses a regular domestic human cost for the sake of "personal liberty" - by which I mean gun violence.
2) A ruling culture that consistently prioritises profits over people.
3) Probably the most important; an economy structured around housing scarcity and employer power over access to healthcare and sick leave.

Taken together you have a public that won't practice basic safety measures, leaders both public and private whose chief concern is their fiscal bottom line rather than like...people dying, and people having limited access to testing and treatment - to say nothing of being unable to afford to quarantine and/or having nowhere to do it because family, roommates, et cetera.

The administration has certainly made this crisis a lot worse than it might otherwise have been, but I struggle to think that even under a President Clinton that the US would have had anywhere near as much success as any other developed country for aforementioned reasons.

And herein is the thing; we haven't actually seen the worst of it. I would like to remind everyone that somewhere close to 40% of American families are rent burdened, many of whom are currently unemployed with no prospect of stimulus. As eviction moratoriums start to expire and court papers start getting issued, we could easily start seeing a massive spike in homelessness during the middle of a pandemic; a spike in homelessness in a country that already has anemic social services for its existing impoverished, let alone handling a massive and sudden increase.

All of the nonsense about small government, federalism, crony capitalism; it's all come home to roost at once and we're just gonna have to see how bad things get before people finally admit those things were all scams.

[Felya]

Mmm....No. I actually don't agree with you.

But, we did... from Ebola to MERSA... Obama gave 30 members of Trump’s team a briefing on pandemic response, because he saw it as that important. We had a pandemic response team, specifically made to react quickly and structurally. With Clinton specifically, where she pulled the “a woman’s place is not behind her man” in response to her being more active in healthcare, than any First Lady has ever been on any issue... I think we would have set a standard and donating supplies to countries losing their grip...

Edit: In my super ability to see alternative reality... I see Hillary as president right now, with the biggest GOP concern, being her sending masks and ventilators to Iran, for free. The shut down would have been over months ago, with us setting travel bans on countries with covid out if control.

[Cynep]

You continuously seem to suffer from a hyperbolistic view of what a fear can entail. Fear is a spectrum with caution at one end and terror (aka "cowering" and "pissing themselves") at the other. It shows when you characterize people advocating caution as "fearmongering".

Why the fuck you go straight to "cowering and pissing yourself" I have no idea, but perhaps it says more about you than the rest of humanity.

Yeah, maybe it does say something about me, or maybe my home region. Since my teens I've faced real threats, not some microagression-tier first world problems. My life experiences influenced what I deem scary: not much really. I'm not an outlier in this - when my city was still "the industrial heart", dozens died in our coal mines every year more or less, and still people were paying bribes to get into those high-risk high-reward miner jobs. That's how people are in Donbass: sissies live poor lives.

So yeah, for you I "suffer from a hyperbolistic view of what a fear can entail", while from my perspective you seem an honest but very anxious and nervous person. (a few other posters in this thread are disingenuous trolls/fearmongers though)

Fear is the little death.

[Mayhem]

Because he and GOP did it to Obama.

Well, of course, god damn it.

[Forogil]

Absolutely Horrifying, Gavin Newsom and the Teachers Union should be ashamed if they let this happen.


https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1282911452240793601

Once more: studies of Covid-19 show that kids are less likely to be infected, and substantially less likely to spread the disease compared to adults.
And similarly studies show that school closures only marginally impact the spread of Covid-19.

Obviously doing it without any measures to reduce the spread is stupid for two reasons: covid-19 spreads more (just because the risk is low doesn't mean that it should be ignored), and you fail to teach the kids how to behave to reduce the spread of pandemics: now and in the future.

And obviously, marginal impact isn't zero impact, and it may be justified to close schools - after closing restaurants, wineries etc (as they are in OC).

However, this is the US and it's not about actual expert opinion and balancing the risks in a good way, instead:
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/07/1...tancing-masks/

The "experts" seemed to be partisan hacks who don't want to close down at all due to "Wuhan Virus"; not actual experts.

(And the article doesn't paint Newsom and Teachers Union in a good light either.

And finally it's unclear if the decision has any real impact (the state-wide directive is different and it's unclear if School Districts will follow it); instead it's as people are fighting to gain control of the deck-chairs as the Titanic is slowly sinking.

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/man-maga-ha...r-mask-1517487

Man waiting for his food is asked to put on a mask by a 17 year old minimum wage employee. Man decides the best response is to flash his gun at the employee. Owner confronts man, argument ensues, man leaves without his food.

What the fuck is wrong with people in the country I live in.

[Zan15]

https://www.newsweek.com/man-maga-ha...r-mask-1517487

Man waiting for his food is asked to put on a mask by a 17 year old minimum wage employee. Man decides the best response is to flash his gun at the employee. Owner confronts man, argument ensues, man leaves without his food.

What the fuck is wrong with people in the country I live in.

Another "good guy with a gun".

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Absolutely Horrifying, Gavin Newsom and the Teachers Union should be ashamed if they let this happen.


https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1282911452240793601

LOL OC, we've all seen the idiocy coming out of those public meetings in OC.

At this point we might just have to let them be sacrificial lambs. At least the kids will survive for the most part, hopefully the parents have good life insurance to help the kids financially after they die.

[Masark]

https://www.wxyz.com/news/national/c...ronavirus-test

[omeomorfismo]

https://www.newsweek.com/man-maga-ha...r-mask-1517487

Man waiting for his food is asked to put on a mask by a 17 year old minimum wage employee. Man decides the best response is to flash his gun at the employee. Owner confronts man, argument ensues, man leaves without his food.

What the fuck is wrong with people in the country I live in.

and this man cant be denounced for threats?
really people can freely aim with guns without repercussions?

[Gorsameth]

https://www.wxyz.com/news/national/c...ronavirus-test

"Cold to the touch". I'm sorry but what? How many hours was he in the back of a van with the driver not taking to him?

A quick google search says it takes 12 hours for a body to go cold?
Are we sure the nursing home didn't drive a corpse to the testing site to avoid having it reported in house or something?

[Granyala]

really people can freely aim with guns without repercussions?

I'm pretty sure they can't, even in America.