Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Forogil]

They pre-ordered last year from all potential candidates to ensure supply. They could always donate what they don't need in the end. And alot of the vaccines ordered have not been authorised yet.

One thing we have to consider is that new vaccines generally have a tendency to fail, so they had planned that several of the vaccines wouldn't work.

That the new mRNA worked - and worked so well - was really unexpected; that's why people originally thought that efficacy >50% would be good enough for the vaccines - but now people think that 70% isn't good enough.

[Demolitia]

One thing we have to consider is that new vaccines generally have a tendency to fail, so they had planned that several of the vaccines wouldn't work.

That the new mRNA worked - and worked so well - was really unexpected; that's why people originally thought that efficacy >50% would be good enough for the vaccines - but now people think that 70% isn't good enough.

The same is happening with the EU, they ordered relatively few pfizer and moderna doses (200 something million) at first. And were relying heavily on oxford/astra at first, which led to the shitshow we have in Europe.
The money was also on sanofi, GSK and merck, which got nowhere.
My point was the surplus will not be lost, and it was not a selfish move. Back then every country wanted to secure supply withput knowing which one would actually work

[Forogil]

The same is happening with the EU, they ordered relatively few pfizer and moderna doses (200 something million) at first. And were relying heavily on oxford/astra at first, which led to the shitshow we have in Europe.
The money was also on sanofi, GSK and merck, which got nowhere.

Hmm... Made me check their status:

Merck have stopped their effort - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/merc...responses.html
Sanofi/GSK vaccine is delayed almost a year - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...ofi-late-2021/ because it didn't give good response among the elderly (seems like a common theme for traditional vaccines).
The other Sanofi vaccines (mRNA-based) isn't even in phase III yet.
But at least Sanofi will help with manufacturing of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

Note that the Sanofi/GSK vaccine candidate isn't catastrophically bad, but it's not good enough compared to what is already available.

My point was the surplus will not be lost, and it was not a selfish move. Back then every country wanted to secure supply withput knowing which one would actually work

Exactly. And based on previous vaccine efforts that made perfect sense, and it just seems that we got lucky with that vaccines work fairly well on this virus.

[WanSko]

so 2 of the 4 vaccines are paused, though I've read it's pretty rare thing to pause on phase 3, though this corona is very weird virus that we still don't know everything about it. Not exactly worrying but anyone being optimistic and expecting a vaccine this year should probably curb those.

[Forogil]

so 2 of the 4 vaccines are paused, though I've read it's pretty rare thing to pause on phase 3, though this corona is very weird virus that we still don't know everything about it. Not exactly worrying but anyone being optimistic and expecting a vaccine this year should probably curb those.

What????

Did you just post this about 4 months too late (when several tests were paused in phase 3), or is there something else happening?

AZ has some production problem in the EU (they build facilities in many places), and Pfizer temporarily stopped production to increase capacity - but neither is pausing, and neither is due to phase 3 issues.

[JohnBrown1917]

First off, who is that? That's definitely not who the title claims it to be.

And secondly, they're not speaking thai.

Why are you linking fake news?

Because he is racist.

[Themius]

Nyt put out an editorial today blaming the left for vaccine issues. Literally the title of the piece is “the lefts vaccine problem” ah yes. Cash cow trump is gone and issues of roll outs are now the left because balance!

[Themius]

Did you actually read it? Your entire issue just seems to be with the title. Do you take personal offence to every possible little negative aimed at "the left"?


OT: Its been 24 hours since I had the first Pfizer jab and I am happy to report I still look human, I've not died, I'm pretty sure no chip is inside me to track me, and I don't have the dreaded autisms. Some slight muscle ache at the injection point that I get with any shot, and that's it. Have I been lied to all this time?! I was hoping I'd grow wings, tbh. Maybe they'll sprout over the next week or so.

I did read it. Do you think titles somehow do not matter when it comes to shaping a narrative and pushing readers towards a position? It's pure foolishness to make the headline title of a vaccination problem as "THE LEFT'S PROBLEM" while mentioning countries that rely on importing the Vaccine and having supply issues on importing as "left countries" that have issues. His entire take and argument the issue is stupid.

As he said (on twitter) that it is better to just vaccinate all 70 year olds regardless of poor or rich because the poor with disproportionately benefit. This ignores the fact of what happens when the ones who can actually travel and get to the locations are the ones with means while the rest are stuck at home? It is a myoptic piece of stupidity.

He celebrates the UK who has a conservative government while ignoring the structures that are already in place that the conservative government is tweaking

[JohnBrown1917]

I did read it. Do you think titles somehow do not matter when it comes to shaping a narrative and pushing readers towards a position? It's pure foolishness to make the headline title of a vaccination problem as "THE LEFT'S PROBLEM" while mentioning countries that rely on importing the Vaccine and having supply issues on importing as "left countries" that have issues. His entire take and argument the issue is stupid.

As he said (on twitter) that it is better to just vaccinate all 70 year olds regardless of poor or rich because the poor with disproportionately benefit. This ignores the fact of what happens when the ones who can actually travel and get to the locations are the ones with means while the rest are stuck at home? It is a myoptic piece of stupidity.

He celebrates the UK who has a conservative government while ignoring the structures that are already in place that the conservative government is tweaking

Celebrating the UK on Corona just seem weird, does having the funds to get a ton of vacciness suddenly excuse the 100k+ deaths,

[LilSaihah]

OT: Its been 24 hours since I had the first Pfizer jab and I am happy to report I still look human, I've not died, I'm pretty sure no chip is inside me to track me, and I don't have the dreaded autisms. Some slight muscle ache at the injection point that I get with any shot, and that's it. Have I been lied to all this time?! I was hoping I'd grow wings, tbh. Maybe they'll sprout over the next week or so.

make sure your junk still works. thats how the illuminati get you. you cant have kids and now theyre gonna replace you and your family with immigants.

[Themius]

As I said, your only issue in the 2 times you've mentioned this article was only the title, you didn't add anything else. This is all I was looking for lol

The mere fact he celebrates the UK is enough to write the whole thing off, tbh. Sure, we're doing ok with vaccines during the lockdown, but everything else about our response to this pandemic is certainly not worthy of any praise.

I noted his Twitter comments about his own article which isn't part of the article so me "not adding anything" to my post was a lie. Did you miss the issue of the wealthy vs no wealthy 70 years olds? His argument is that the "left" is causing vaccine issues by... trying to distribute the vaccine in a fair way that doesn't appropriately lead to the privilege of being able to get theirs.

There are a lot of issues and flaws in his argument on other states, however the namesake of the article lays blame as the left

Titles matter, kind of you know... how saying workers strike for a dollar raise... leaves a different taste for readers than "strike threatened supply chain"

[NED funded]

Did you actually read it? Your entire issue just seems to be with the title. Do you take personal offence to every possible little negative aimed at "the left"?


OT: Its been 24 hours since I had the first Pfizer jab and I am happy to report I still look human, I've not died, I'm pretty sure no chip is inside me to track me, and I don't have the dreaded autisms. Some slight muscle ache at the injection point that I get with any shot, and that's it. Have I been lied to all this time?! I was hoping I'd grow wings, tbh. Maybe they'll sprout over the next week or so.

You need to watch out just in case you find yourself staring to long at trains

[Themius]

There was no lie. When I saw the post in the Biden/Harris thread, it had none of your additions. And this is the post I was referring to here. That you added things 10mins after you originally posted doesn't make me a liar....

I am referring to the reply post. You then replied to that with your comment about me not adding anything.

I first brought it up in this post in this thread: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52994563

And after that post you went on to say that nothign was added.

In any event what was the purpose or point you were tryign to make by trying to say "you only care about the titlenot the story" Are you tyring to make the foolish assertion that titles and language do not matter? That they hold no ability to sway and colour minds before they even begin to read a piece?

If you open up an article by blaming the "left" for issues of vaccinations, go on to applude conservative governments and states and then attack progressive/left leaning people for not doing their part by focussing on equitable distribution... do you not see the issue there?

it is also quite hilarious that in his piece he says "well these coutnries have more active left/progressive parties so yeah totally their fault"

- - - Updated - - -

Celebrating the UK on Corona just seem weird, does having the funds to get a ton of vacciness suddenly excuse the 100k+ deaths,

When he applaudes the Dakotas, which had a fucking motocycle rally linked to tons of cases and deaths.... I would say the author's thought process is entirley broken.

[Easo]

Speaking a bit about solidarity.
In Latvia our health ministry royally fucked up and when offered 800k Pfizer vaccines last year they ordered... some 97k. Why? "No one knows/it was cheaper (even though vaccines are cheap)/we have no storage capacity/etc." Health minister was fired before this came to light but the damage was already done. Add to this the AZ debacle and it has all went to ridiculous shit, whole country has received less than 40k total doses by now.
We are basically the worst amongst EU regarding vaccination rates. Somehow, thankfully, our goverment had enough brains to ask rest of EU to help after this - we will get a bit less than 200k vaccines from those meant for other EU countries, enough for the most vulnerable. Deliveries starting in March (plus whatever comes from the standard deliveries).
Yeah, it feels really nice to loose some 3 months and a number of deaths to something that could have been avoided. At least some of that will be offset now.

[Themius]

I now remember why I stopped replying to your posts....

My last reply says what it needs to say, it isn't difficult to follow.

It is when you do not mention the other post at start and take a snippy attitude with snide comments.

22078: nyt article

22079: asking if i read it and claiming personal offense

22080: saying I did read it, noting his twitter example (an addition)

22082: your reply of "as i said you only issue is the 2 times you mentioned the article"

22085: noting 22080 and saying you didn't catch the comment in 22080

22087: I didn't lie I just read a different post in another thread which i hadn't explicitly mentioned here to say xyz and i ignored post 22080 as i wrote my reply about you only caring about xyz

I am talking to you in this thread you are aware right?
this: Did you actually read it? Your entire issue just seems to be with the title. Do you take personal offence to every possible little negative aimed at "the left"?


Is a stupid take to have at the start. Why is it a stupid take? Well because nothing about what I said points to "only caring that it is negativity at the left" I mean in fact the other post notes the issue around centrism and balance which is a bigger issue than "negativity directed at the left".

A person is typically ignorant of what is in another's head so your comment here was what... you thinking you know me and all my thoughts about the article? Anyone who reads the article should find the fucking title bogus since the places he gives positive praise to are some of the very same places that had a direct hand in spreading this damn thing because of "muh freedoms".

[Forogil]

Speaking a bit about solidarity.
In Latvia our health ministry royally fucked up and when offered 800k Pfizer vaccines last year they ordered... some 97k. Why? "No one knows/it was cheaper (even though vaccines are cheap)/we have no storage capacity/etc."

Well, the Pfizer (and Moderna) mRNA vaccines are substantially more expensive than the alternative from Astra-Zeneca.

Back then we didn't know that it would be more efficient - so if there's a choice between vaccine P for 16€ requiring special storage and vaccine A for 3€ (ball-park figures) it doesn't seem odd to not order much of vaccine P - until you realize that GDP/Capita is like 16,000€ so that vaccines for everyone would only be 0.2% of GDP, compared to the 6% drop in GDP last year.

[Easo]

Well, the Pfizer (and Moderna) mRNA vaccines are substantially more expensive than the alternative from Astra-Zeneca.

Back then we didn't know that it would be more efficient - so if there's a choice between vaccine P for 16€ requiring special storage and vaccine A for 3€ (ball-park figures) it doesn't seem odd to not order much of vaccine P - until you realize that GDP/Capita is like 16,000€ so that vaccines for everyone would only be 0.2% of GDP, compared to the 6% drop in GDP last year.

Even for Latvia that much for vaccine is basically change money. We actually knew it would be more effective than AZ one, but more difficult to keep due to lack of specialized fridges. So some genius made a decision to bet everything on AZ vaccine (still a question whether that person received something for it...) Yet not all doses would have come at the same time (far from it) and the existing capacity actually would have been enough (half a million doses), vaccinate fast enough and it does not ever become an issue.
So here we are, with some 30k+ Pfizer and few more thousand Moderna vaccines delivered for 2 million people. Estonia and Lithuania are both quite far ahead as can be seen by vaccination statistics.

[Forogil]

Some less good news. Vaccines seems actually to be less effective against the "South African variant" (501.V2 - which includes the E484K escape mutation):

The latest is that Astra-Zeneca vaccine seems a lot less effective (at least in terms of moderate and mild cases) against this variant - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ica-variant-ft
Previously Pfizer/BioNTech, Novavax (and Moderna assuming webmd got their name wrong) also seem less effective - https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...frican-variant

This was previously reported as a possibility: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/h...ant/index.html

Obviously the vaccines can be tweaked (given time), but it's still a bad sign in itself and also indicating that it likely will be a yearly event like the seasonal flu.

[Demolitia]

Some less good news. Vaccines seems actually to be less effective against the "South African variant" (501.V2 - which includes the E484K escape mutation):

The latest is that Astra-Zeneca vaccine seems a lot less effective (at least in terms of moderate and mild cases) against this variant - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ica-variant-ft
Previously Pfizer/BioNTech, Novavax (and Moderna assuming webmd got their name wrong) also seem less effective - https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...frican-variant

This was previously reported as a possibility: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/h...ant/index.html

Obviously the vaccines can be tweaked (given time), but it's still a bad sign in itself and also indicating that it likely will be a yearly event like the seasonal flu.

I think it was Pfizer's or biontech's CEO who said in an interview a few months back that we will have to learn to live with covid.
They can adjust their mRNA vaccine within a couple of weeks but we'll never really catch up or eradicate it.
I hope he's wrong.

[Vash The Stampede]

Some less good news. Vaccines seems actually to be less effective against the "South African variant" (501.V2 - which includes the E484K escape mutation):

The latest is that Astra-Zeneca vaccine seems a lot less effective (at least in terms of moderate and mild cases) against this variant - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ica-variant-ft
Previously Pfizer/BioNTech, Novavax (and Moderna assuming webmd got their name wrong) also seem less effective - https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...frican-variant

This was previously reported as a possibility: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/h...ant/index.html

Obviously the vaccines can be tweaked (given time), but it's still a bad sign in itself and also indicating that it likely will be a yearly event like the seasonal flu.

I'm not surprised. The virus has had a lot of time and selection pressure to force a mutation that spreads and infects more easily. We're going to need to be vaccinated again later this year. This will become if not a yearly thing then a multi-yearly thing where we'll need multiple vaccines for the new strains of COVID.