Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Elegiac]

The first is happening because the DNC was corrupt (and probably still is) in 2016, so the DNC and Tom Perez are getting the blame even if they have nothing to do with this debacle directly.

That makes it okay to lob blatantly false attacks at them. Aight.

Remind me how the Sanders camp is supposed to be distinct from that of Trump?

The second, sure, it's the Sanders supporters fault that we kept the caucuses. BECAUSE THE DNC WAS CORRUPT IN 2016, so people don't trust them with fixing or improving the system.

The DNC has a credibility problem that it has done precious little to fix.

*sips wine*

So rather than, like, actually put up or shut up regarding their commitment to fair and free elections and campaign for a system that is objectively more transparent...

I'll say again, "a system". Not the DNC's system. They could have easily recommended an alternative.

They decided to retain an antiquated and byzantine electoral system that just happened to benefit them more in 2016 than the alternatives.

This is the DNC's fault, how?

[Muzjhath]

Maybe it is a good idea, if the DNC as a national organization wants to distance itself from the IDP shitshow. The silence is not helping. At all.

And regarding your question. I honestly have no idea about that. I personally think the caucuses are somewhat of a dumb system, and I'd much prefer doing away with them, but I also understand that in light of the 2016 primaries a lot of people are very skeptical of the DNC. The DNC has a lot of work to do to re-establish credibility and trust with the base before it could push for really doing away with the caucuses. Also, the super delegates need to go. They should have been completely done away with after 2016, and maintaining them is also not helping with the credibility number.

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Holeeee shiet. How do the plebs dare make an issue out of corruption?! Clearly, they should know their place and be good drones.

Have you considered that it wasn't such an issue in 2008 because the rigging wasn't as egregious? Or because people haven't quite caught onto it?

The fact that the DNC allows Sanders to even run for President on their ticket blows my mind. Had I been an organizer in the party I'd have had a clause of a 5 year solid membership to run for that particular office (Or well. Federal Senator, Govenor or President, 5 year paid membership of party).

So this whole "OMG THE DNC WAS UNFAIR TO THE PERSON ABUSING THE SYSTEM WHAAAA" is just fucking whining.

[Elegiac]

Also maybe they don’t want to shit on Iowa, a state Obama won and while difficult could be won again. Trump is already exploiting some democratic pundits dumping on the Iowa caucuses because he wants to win Iowa in the fall. And the sun has been up for an hour.

There is no picking your battles, only Zuul...

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The DNC still doesn't understand the game of optics. They keep giving Trump easy layups and opening themselves up for criticism.

The DNC doesn't understand the game of optics, meanwhile y'all don't understand the DNC doesn't run Iowa's caucuses.

One of these things is not like the other.

[Mihalik]

I have, and it isn't as parsimonious an explanation as "they didn't care because their guy won".

Again, Obama could have very easily made an issue of the way the DNC treated him. Hell, he had absolutely no reason to reconcile with Clinton given her campaign had lobbed some particularly vicious attacks against him during the primary. But he did, because the alternative was needlessly causing a fracture at a time when the country needed to get the GOP out of office due to the economic crisis they created.

Rather than wait until the election had concluded to conduct a postmortem and campaign for reform of the DNC, the Bernie camp responded to similar treatment by raising all manner of hell while the general election was still going on, further damaging Clinton as a candidate relative to Trump and embroiling the DNC in entirely deferrable debates about reform at a time when it needed to be focusing on, you know, actually getting Democrats elected to office.

To use a D&D analogy, you aren't being Lawful Good by immediately resorting to combat at every sign of injustice. You're being Lawful Stupid.

Yeah. And Obama reconciling with the DNC and towing the party line sure did a lot of good for the democratic cause.

Considering we lost 14 Senators, 69 Congress seats, 9 Governorships and about 1000 state representatives during those "glorious" 8 years. Obama was elected as an insurgent, losing stunning amounts of support once he became a "team player".

All that followed by the Trump presidency.

[Beazy]

So, when are we supposed to get the results?

Ive been alive 40+ years and Ive never seen an election of any type, from City Council to the Presidency, take longer than a single night to feed us the results. What the hell happened? Did the counting location explode in flames or something?

[Elegiac]

Yeah. And Obama reconciling with the DNC and towing the party line sure did a lot of good for the democratic cause.

He won two Presidential elections. Which is a lot more than I can say for Bernie.

Considering we lost 14 Senators, 69 Congress seats, 9 Governorships and about 1000 state representatives during those "glorious" 8 years. Obama was elected as an insurgent, losing stunning amounts of support once he became a "team player".

I'm curious why you seem to think this could have been avoided by Obama starting a fight with the DNC the minute he won the nomination.

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So, when are we supposed to get the results?

Ive been alive 40+ years and Ive never seen an election of any type, from City Council to the Presidency, take longer than a single night to feed us the results. What the hell happened? Did the counting location explode in flames or something?

I know the Iowa caucuses are a little confusing, so I'll break it down for you.

If there's white smoke, the state will vote Democrat. If the smoke is black, they'll vote Republican.

[JohnBrown1917]

https://twitter.com/jaylencavil/stat...31122354298881


Just a reminder.

[infinitemeridian]

This is the worst Democratic screw-up since the Obamacare website launch...wait, no, since the Hillary Hindenburg...wait, no, since they lost their shot at the Senate over a failed nuclear attack on Brett Kavanaugh...wait, no, since Martha Coakley lost both the governorship and a Senate seat in Massachusetts...wait, no, since Obama wasted half of his presidency in the futile pursuit of 'reasonable Republican' votes and 'bipartisan legitimacy'...wait, no, since...

This is up there with the nine-figure Obamacare website rollout fiasco for the sheer 'How the hell does this even happen?' factor -- this is a total Three Stooges clown show. It's like they went out of their way to mess up.

Why are they even using an app to report results? Why would they give middle-aged and elderly people apps to use instead of the traditional method, when there was nothing wrong with the traditional method? Why would they try to have multiple precincts vote in the same building, leading to many people apparently voting in the wrong precincts? How could the votes have been counted for hours and yet still have not all been communicated to a central body?

Thank the Lord, though; thanks to this fiasco there will be a mass outcry to finally take the keys away from these political drunks, who are responsible for giving the transparent-from-the-start con man John Edwards a third of the vote in 2004 and a quarter of it in 2008, and supported Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, and Ted Cruz for the Republican nomination.

[Beazy]

I know the Iowa caucuses are a little confusing, so I'll break it down for you.

If there's white smoke, the state will vote Democrat. If the smoke is black, they'll vote Republican.

LoL


/StaresAtTheStateBuildingChimenyStack

[Elegiac]

https://twitter.com/jaylencavil/stat...31122354298881

Just a reminder.

One day y'all will provide some form of evidence that isn't campaign staffers getting bitchy over Twitter, I'm hoping.

[Mihalik]

Also maybe they don’t want to shit on Iowa, a state Obama won and while difficult could be won again. Trump is already exploiting some democratic pundits dumping on the Iowa caucuses because he wants to win Iowa in the fall. And the sun has been up for an hour.

IDP=/=Iowa.

I'm pretty sure everyone who voted in the Iowa primaries is feeling pretty damn angry with the IDP right about now.

The DNC could easily argue that when they come down on the IDP they are doing so on behalf of Iowa, Iowans and Iowan primary voters.

It's not a difficult argument to make.

[Elegiac]

IDP=/=Iowa.

Do you really think JoAnn and Cletus are going to draw that nuanced of a distinction? The same JoAnn and Cletus that got conned by such brilliant talking points as "death panels"?

I'm not talking about people keyed in to the Democratic primary. I'm talking about your regular Joe Schmoe Iowan.

[Mihalik]

I'm curious why you seem to think this could have been avoided by Obama starting a fight with the DNC the minute he won the nomination.

Because perhaps, just perhaps, if he actually gave a damn he could have used to Presidential pulpit to reign in the DNC and actually pass legislation that he ran on passing.

[JohnBrown1917]

One day y'all will provide some form of evidence that isn't campaign staffers getting bitchy over Twitter, I'm hoping.

Oh im sure that this sort of stuff is just american democracy, my bad.

[Mihalik]

Do you really think JoAnn and Cletus are going to draw that nuanced of a distinction? The same JoAnn and Cletus that got conned by such brilliant talking points as "death panels"?

I'm not talking about people keyed in to the Democratic primary. I'm talking about your regular Joe Schmoe Iowan.

Give Joe Schmoe Iowan some credit. After all...He voted for Obama before. So, perhaps, the problem isn't with Joe, but with the messaging.

Also, I'd accuse the DNC of many things, transparency is not one of them.

[Elegiac]

Give Joe Schmoe Iowan some credit. After all...He voted for Obama before. So, perhaps, the problem isn't with Joe, but with the messaging.

Indeed. And the DNC potentially doesn't want to send a message that could potentially be interpreted as shitting on Iowa, especially when they're up against the Spin Doctor in Chief.

Again. Whipping out your greatsword at the first sign of every injustice isn't Lawful Good, it's Lawful Stupid. Pick your godsdamned battles.

[Drutt]

https://twitter.com/jaylencavil/stat...31122354298881


Just a reminder.

This is actually nothing more than a mathematics issue that is badly hedged against by poor rules.

Bernie won 4.8 delegates and Pete won 3.2.

The logical thing to do would be to have rules that obey general mathematical premises for rounding, giving Bernie 5 and Pete 3.

The caucus rules, however, tie break split delegates through a coin flip. The only time a coin flip should be used is in a .5/.5 scenario (i.e. Bernie 4.5 Pete 3.5), but apparently no one thought that far ahead when considering how small numbers of delegates would potentially be split.

It looks baffling on the surface, but the explanation is fairly benign. A sensible rule for using rounding before coin flips would have made all of this go away.

[Elegiac]

Because perhaps, just perhaps, if he actually gave a damn he could have used to Presidential pulpit to reign in the DNC and actually pass legislation that he ran on passing.

Again, I'm curious why you immediately assume this necessitates starting a public row rather than, like...reform. Like adults.

All evidence thus far points to Obama just outright failing to pay the DNC much attention during his tenure rather than him trying and failing to reform it without using the bully pulpit, so...your narrative really doesn't hold water.

[Somewhatconcerned]

https://twitter.com/jaylencavil/stat...31122354298881


Just a reminder.

Liked that one dude's comment: "socialism, the redistribution of votes."

Wtf is going on there??

[Mihalik]

Again, I'm curious why you immediately assume this necessitates starting a public row rather than, like...reform. Like adults.

All evidence thus far points to Obama just outright failing to pay the DNC much attention during his tenure rather than him trying and failing to reform it without using the bully pulpit, so...your narrative really doesn't hold water.

Because, no reform came out of the process. We had significantly more reform between 2016 and 2018, despite the DNC's best efforts to the contrary, than we had between 2008 and 2016.