Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[Elegiac]

The dnc and campaign finance reform ideas are incompatible. Think about that.

False. Like, pants on fire false.

Who the fuck do you think manages a party caucus in a funds limited democracy?

Y’all are getting insane with this level of “it’s a hierarchy so it must be bad”.

[Fugus]

if bernie has the support that people claim, it shouldn't be an issue. historically third parties have won on sheer popularity.
but bernie isn't as popular as is claimed or else he would do that.
he and his supporters want to alienate the rest of the dems, calling them corrupt etc while feeling entitled to their votes by virtue of not being trump.

its a pretty sleazy tactic and people recognize that.

Historically 3rd parties were doomed from the start and the history bares that out, our system is setup specifically to prevent that and we are even raised to avoid 3rd parties because of spoiler votes.

Not even bothering to get into the specifics on how popular or not he is. I am just point out that talking about 3rd parties is a cop out because that isn't an option given our system.

And I am one of his supporters and I have not tried to alienate the Democrats, I have had a few unhappy with me all because I said that if the race isn't impartial and fair, I ignore the results of it and write in the name I choose.

The sleazy tactic is "Go run third party!" followed by "The voters would be dumb to vote 3rd party, they would be spoiler votes and will give the election to <Insert Republican oppoent>"


Until 3rd party is optional, they don't have the right to complain when people use the only routes that allow them even a chance, which is directly through the 2 big parties.

AFK.

[Telogrus]

Historically 3rd parties were doomed from the start and the history bares that out, our system is setup specifically to prevent that and we are even raised to avoid 3rd parties because of spoiler votes.

Not even bothering to get into the specifics on how popular or not he is. I am just point out that talking about 3rd parties is a cop out because that isn't an option given our system.

And I am one of his supporters and I have not tried to alienate the Democrats, I have had a few unhappy with me all because I said that if the race isn't impartial and fair, I ignore the results of it and write in the name I choose.

The sleazy tactic is "Go run third party!" followed by "The voters would be dumb to vote 3rd party, they would be spoiler votes and will give the election to <Insert Republican oppoent>"


Until 3rd party is optional, they don't have the right to complain when people use the only routes that allow them even a chance, which is directly through the 2 big parties.

AFK.

They’ll say that Bernie should just run third party, and then complain about him being a spoiler. These people will say one thing and then immediately contradict themselves. One guy here says that the DNC isn’t neutral and they had every right to make sure that Bernie didn’t win, and then he’ll immediately say afterwards that the DNC isn’t biased against Bernie.

These aren’t winning arguments. If clowns like this are running the Democratic establishment, then they have no hope of winning 2020.

[Elegiac]

I mean the actual route that allows you to have a chance is to join and contribute in one of the parties.

But the DNC is eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiil. /s

For reasons largely related to pissing off the supporters of a single candidate. Apparently.

[Telogrus]

But the DNC is eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiil. /s

For reasons largely related to posting off the supporters of a single candidate. Apparently.

So how are we ever gonna get anyone who disagrees with both of the parties? Do you not realize that what you’re advocating for would lead to the DNC and RNC having complete control over every voice in the US government?

You’re so blinded by your hatred for Bernie that you refuse to see the bigger picture.

[Elegiac]

So how are we ever gonna get anyone who disagrees with both of the parties? Do you not realize that what you’re advocating for would lead to the DNC and RNC having complete control over every voice in the US government?

Which is a massive crock of shit that ignores how ideologically diverse the party proper actually is.

Bernie is not an outcast because of his beliefs. He’s an outcast because he’s a cantankerous old man that doesn’t play well with others, and y’all have bought into the grift that it’s the former, lol.

[starlord]

Historically 3rd parties were doomed from the start and the history bares that out, our system is setup specifically to prevent that and we are even raised to avoid 3rd parties because of spoiler votes.

Not even bothering to get into the specifics on how popular or not he is. I am just point out that talking about 3rd parties is a cop out because that isn't an option given our system.

And I am one of his supporters and I have not tried to alienate the Democrats, I have had a few unhappy with me all because I said that if the race isn't impartial and fair, I ignore the results of it and write in the name I choose.

The sleazy tactic is "Go run third party!" followed by "The voters would be dumb to vote 3rd party, they would be spoiler votes and will give the election to <Insert Republican oppoent>"


Until 3rd party is optional, they don't have the right to complain when people use the only routes that allow them even a chance, which is directly through the 2 big parties.

AFK.

it might surprise you to learn that the republican party was once a third party who won the presidency. just because its rare doesn't mean its impossible. so no its not lazy, bernie just doesnt want to put his money where his mouth is.
because he knows he would lose.

you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what political parties are and how they work if your criticism is "impartiality"- parties are meant to be groups of like minded people, which is the literal opposite of impartial.

bernie wants the benefits of belonging to a party without actually forming his own and putting the work in to form connections and expand a base, then criticizes the party he's benefitting off of for not bowing to him (and they even have made changes for his sake!).
no matter how good his ideas are, his behavior in that is why people don't like him.

[Telogrus]

Which is a massive crock of shit that ignores how ideologically diverse the party proper actually is.

Bernie is not an outcast because of his beliefs. He’s an outcast because he’s a cantankerous old man that doesn’t play well with others, and y’all have bought into the grift that it’s the former, lol.

You do realize that the party is ideologically diverse because they let people like Bernie run, right?

[Elegiac]

You do realize that the party is ideologically diverse because they let people like Bernie run, right?

No.

They’re ideologically diverse because they let people like Elizabeth Warren, Pramila Jayapal, and Stacey Abrams run.

Which is the entire reason why the Bro’s need to construct these ridiculous purity tests, because a progressive existing within the party structure runs against the narrative that Bernie is a victim.

[eschatological]

Not a viable option given our political system. The day where 3rd parties become viable and there is no such thing as a spoiler vote is the day much of this debate dies because you no longer have to join one of the big 2 to remain an option.

The problem is, that as much as the DNC might hate him to the point they think about ways to kneecap him, they hate the thought of running against him and others directly without spoiler votes even more. That thought of freedom of the voters terrifies both parties.

As a nation, we either need to change our election methods to allow for 3rd parties or make sure the 2 big parties are required to let anyone who wishes to run under their tents to do so and do it fairly and let their voters decide where the party really lies.

But we can't complain about one of those if we refuse to do either.

The only way 3rd parties become viable is if popular politicians run as third party.

They only need 5% to receive national funding and recognition as a political party.

Are you saying Bernie doesn't have the support to make a true third party in this country?

After all, there used to be a Whig party in this country. It was supplanted by a more popular third party - the Republicans.

[Edge-]

You do realize that the party is ideologically diverse because they let people like Bernie run, right?

The DNC has always been a more ideologically diverse party, that shit didn't start with Sanders by a longshot. The fact that they "let" Bernie run as a Democrat, twice, despite him being an Independent doesn't mean that Sanders made them that way, it means they already were.

[Endus]

So how are we ever gonna get anyone who disagrees with both of the parties?

By having enough of the population choose to vote for them, over one of the main two.

It's why you no longer have the Federalist Party, or the Whig Party.

The only reason the Democrats and Republicans stay in power is the American voter. All it takes is enough Americans just . . . voting differently. The EC means that effectively needs to happen in a single election, rather than a slower drift, but it's happened in the past.

Do you not realize that what you’re advocating for would lead to the DNC and RNC having complete control over every voice in the US government?

The American voting population decides the DNC and RNC should have that control.

They could vote differently if they wanted to.

And frankly, if Bernie wanted to make this the issue, he'd have run as an Independent. He's relying on the DNC's position of power. He desires it.

You’re so blinded by your hatred for Bernie that you refuse to see the bigger picture.

I pushed strongly for Bernie in the 2016 primaries, here. He doesn't bring the support you claim. That's why he lost in 2016. It's why he's still not leading in 2020.

The "bigger picture" is nonsense. You're so focused on your blind support of a cult of personality you can't see that he's just not as supported as you think he is.

[Blur4stuff]

If you want to change the country there are only two options: republican or democrat. If neither of those parties are taking the country where you want it to be then the only course of action is to join one and change it then change the country.

[Sorshen]

If one thing is certain, it's that democrats and republicans will silently agree on keeping the status quo. They're the gatekeepers of w/e this interpretation of 'democracy' is. So being an independent in this day and age is pretty much equal not existing right from the get-go. And that is why it's funny to see people defending it - be it "it's their rules!" when they actually argue in court that they can change the rules on a whim; or following in line with all their paid pundits going live on TV to drop the fresh hit piece on w/e is the threat of the moment.

[Skroe]

If one thing is certain, it's that democrats and republicans will silently agree on keeping the status quo. They're the gatekeepers of w/e this interpretation of 'democracy' is. So being an independent in this day and age is pretty much equal not existing right from the get-go. And that is why it's funny to see people defending it - be it "it's their rules!" when they actually argue in court that they can change the rules on a whim; or following in line with all their paid pundits going live on TV to drop the fresh hit piece on w/e is the threat of the moment.

The status quo needs modest reform some places. Major reform other places. But just reform. Not upheaval.

[starlord]

If one thing is certain, it's that democrats and republicans will silently agree on keeping the status quo. They're the gatekeepers of w/e this interpretation of 'democracy' is. So being an independent in this day and age is pretty much equal not existing right from the get-go. And that is why it's funny to see people defending it - be it "it's their rules!" when they actually argue in court that they can change the rules on a whim; or following in line with all their paid pundits going live on TV to drop the fresh hit piece on w/e is the threat of the moment.

you not understanding how politics or political parties work doesn't mean they are "corrupt". your guy lacks the conviction to run as an independent, so he *chose* to run with the dems and *chose* to abide by their rules.

[Skroe]

you not understanding how politics or political parties work doesn't mean they are "corrupt". your guy lacks the conviction to run as an independent, so he *chose* to run with the dems and *chose* to abide by their rules.

This needs to be tattooed to the fucking palm of every Bernie Sanders supporter so they can read it before they begin jerking off to their fucking beliefs.

[Sorshen]

you not understanding how politics or political parties work doesn't mean they are "corrupt". your guy lacks the conviction to run as an independent, so he *chose* to run with the dems and *chose* to abide by their rules.

He's not *my guy*, and arguing that the constant goalpost moving and the tactic of writing hit pieces is "not understanding how political parties work" is intellectually disingenuous. In this very thread there are people arguing for belittling ideological opponents in the media.

[starlord]

He's not *my guy*, and arguing that the constant goalpost moving and the tactic of writing hit pieces is "not understanding how political parties work" is intellectually disingenuous.

bernie sends out hit pieces too, and uses his followers as hatchet men. thats politics.

[beanman12345]

This needs to be tattooed to the fucking palm of every Bernie Sanders supporter so they can read it before they begin jerking off to their fucking beliefs.

oh the irony of this coming from you of all people.