I sure wish Race/World story telling would major over character tales

[Aucald]

But you cant change the theme of the expansion without the structure
They want a seasonal mmo where every season (major patch) feels you ending a new world ending level threat and want to sell something super exiting to you on a superficial level.

I mean look how Ion SELLS the expansion they reveal ("You gonna go to Shadowlands to save the world !). Im not saying it cant be done, see my example above your post, im saying i dont see how blizzard current course follows anything along the lines of "proven to work in classic."

Just have a theme that doesn't have either a strong central plot-contrivance and/or character - hence the proposed theme of exploration in the place of a faction war, a world-ending threat, or the rise of an ancient evil. For me at least, the best part of BfA was actually the leveling continent and exploring zones like Nazmir, Drustvar, Stormsong Valley, and Vol'dun. The worst part was the War Campaign itself, and the faction conflict it was hitched to. It was similar with Legion, although I think the central story of that expansion was just of a high caliber than BfA (and admittedly dealt with subjects that were just more interesting to me from the get-go). Personally speaking, I think many players in WoW are a bit bored (or perhaps numb) as concerns spectacle without substance.

That is of course just my $0.02 - YMMV as others are concerned.

[Newname1234567890]

plaguelands are still not cleansed after a decade so good luck with hoping on that, lol
did we ever get an update on that?

I doubt it'll ever happen but would be great to see a cleaned up plaguelands!

[Nize]

Part of the big reason Legion story felt big is due to its focus on order halls. While it became more "centralized" towards the main characters at the end there, the beginning of the xpac felt epic. Faction story-telling, whether racially-focused, class-focused, or just purely put together with a common goal in mind, always felt like the best parts of Warcraft. Factions like Earthen Ring and Cenarion Circle should have taken a bigger role in this last patch given their history with the Old Gods. Instead, it felt like Magni, Wrathion, and MOTHER vs. N'zoth. It felt small.

[ravenmoon]

Except Night Elves and Void Elves have literally nothing in common. I'd rather they give us campaigns for the core races first, and allied races later.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way.. woudl be interesting to see individual allied race campaigns.. but the work load would be humungous, and all of them can relate to their core race. Which is why it makes sense to have them merge. I was thinking more like there is a portion of the opening that would be unique to the allied race, separate from the core, but they will cross paths.

I wouldn't invovle void elves with night elves either, though they can overlap and interests can be created (which I think would be good). The void elves would be part of the Blood elf campaign. Nothing says campaign should respect faction loyalties, or that the interaction has to be amicable. Some campaigns would have more fighting than others, more intrigue, because the races are more complex. Void elves could have identical missions to blood elves and compete, or not, There is so much you can do. they could even work together for a while if that was the focus. Some people sadly have faction so colouring everything, they can't imagine that void elves and blood elves can share a campaign.

Likewise, Nightborne would be part of the night elf campaign, where they may have different.


[As for interests being created between void and night elves, I've always felt that the Black Moon and Priesthood, the highborne and the Illidari are 3 major points that void elves can relate quite amicably to the night elves. Furthermore, dealing with the void and nature's trouble with it, could also create an opportunity for the druids to wrok well. Atm, you have two types of night elves, isolationists, and rationalists. The thing with night elves, is that race character changing events have happened that should seriously change the WC3 model, at least for those who belong to the latter group. Those of the former group would likely prefer the way they've been living the last 10k years regardless, however all the reasons for that lifestyle no longer exist, and profound revelations , achievements and discvoeries should have the radical shifts blizzard shows us. ]

Race campaigns are opportunities to explore all these. Create interesting stories, interactions, relationships, friendships. Explore culture, civilization, what the people do etc, and how the new Main event affects each race, what they are doing towards it. It is also an opportuinity to flesh out a lot of missing lore. e.g. What exactly have the blood elves being doing in Quel'thalas since the Sunwell? We've had glimpses outside, but Alleria and the void elves along with Thalyssra and the Nightborne was the first insight we had of activity on their end since all those adventures - post-Dalaran purge, Arthas, the San'lyan.


The idea is to take groups according to theme and race. Now some have far more interesting things happening. Thalassian elves with the whole void elf, high elf, san'layn, syylvanas, Amani troll ting, naaru etc.

Every race has a such a unique world, that has a lot of diversity. When you think of the Orc clans, fleshing them out on Azeroth, mindsets, differences between the formerly fel corrupted green ones. Some have more internal intrigue, but those without aren't short of challenges without too. Blizzard use to write their races, as their own people.. I respected that. When I looked at the night elf story, it wasn't trying to "provide an alternative for the blood elves"... it was it's own story, it's own situations and circumstances. Yes there was overlap, but they always felt different because of their unique set of circumstances, and their characteristics, They weren't doing anything like "oh , these are the forest elves, therefore - or these are the magic elves, therefore.. " each group really feels like it's own world, having an assortment of things to it.

[Sunlonghorn]

I would love a Tauren campaign! As a Tauren priest I love the lore behind their worship of the Sun & the concept of the Earthmother is almost like some divine trinity (An'she,Mu'sha, & herself.)...but we don't really know anything about her. Nothing concrete anyway. There isn't even any official or concept art as to what she/it could look like or how the Tauren imagine it. Is she the world soul of Azeroth? Is she a Titan? *shrug* And where did the Tauren come from? A wild god bull? (Niuzao?) We know of their ancestry to the Yongul, but what came prior? So much could be fleshed out. A campaign that explores the spirituality & origin of Tauren would be awesome :> Plus racial campaigns can further help to give the new allied races a bit more cultural differences.

[Aeula]

It'd be great. Sadly Blizzard like to focus on their characters due to them being more marketable. Even if they're not that good at telling stories with them.

WoW's strengths have always been worldbuilding and lore. These "Epic!" characters and set pieces are trash that drag the entire setting through the mud.

[ravenmoon]

It is a great idea, and there is so much that could be done with that.

indeed, lots of developments and interactions.


And more.

Take Island expeditions, you saw wild unfriendly tauren, wild worgen, you also saw NPCs of different races in action. Now that was quite something to see.. we've never had that perspective

Imagine along the blood elf campaign, you meet a party of void elves or x race, but they're not static like most mobs, they are like the island opposition faction taeams we meet.. whether you fight them or interact with them for some great quest.

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I would love a Tauren campaign! As a Tauren priest I love the lore behind their worship of the Sun & the concept of the Earthmother is almost like some divine trinity (An'she,Mu'sha, & herself.)...but we don't really know anything about her. Nothing concrete anyway. There isn't even any official or concept art as to what she/it could look like or how the Tauren imagine it. Is she the world soul of Azeroth? Is she a Titan? *shrug* And where did the Tauren come from? A wild god bull? (Niuzao?) We know of their ancestry to the Yongul, but what came prior? So much could be fleshed out. A campaign that explores the spirituality & origin of Tauren would be awesome :> Plus racial campaigns can further help to give the new allied races a bit more cultural differences.

There could be so much more. More of theh different tuaren clans, not just the grim totem.. maybe all the skin fur tones in character creation are actually different tribes??

Furthermore, can we connect the Tauren, Blood elves, Tol'vir and Arrakoa via the sun thing.. that could be some serious involvement, and ofc generat e some blood elf, tauren friendship. But Tauren and elves are really different. you can even see it in the night elves, although tauren are druids, they have 0 interaction and have such different cultural mindsets. But it could yield friendships.


I'm not sure they'd connect everything. They could be perfectly fine with leaving An'she, Mu'sha, Earthmother as more symbolic things, the way the first people tried to understand greater concepts using familiar things. i.e. an Allegory for the vastness of life, rather than an actual being entity like Elune. Turns out Azeroth is a titan afterall,but the initial sense was like native American beliefs, personifying the earth rather than any actual awareness that she was truly sentience. And Mu'shua could end up being literally the moon, not the entity Elune. While the night elves symbolise her through the moon. It's not actually the moon they are worshipping. In their legend, it was gazing at the well and fascination with it, which began their study of it, this game via the reflection of the moon in the Well of Eternity.. but then an actual entity interacted with them. Pure silver moonlight and starlight arcane energy of Elune...

I have no idea how to fully interpret it without more information, but we know for sure Elune, though also the name of the 2nd moon used to symbolise the divine entity, it is certainly more than a moon. I also know that they wrote many of these races based on what they were aiming for with real life parallels. So if the Taurne are modelled after the native American branch, then it's a similar to what the Tauren have about these things. Take that how you may.

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It'd be great. Sadly Blizzard like to focus on their characters due to them being more marketable. Even if they're not that good at telling stories with them.

WoW's strengths have always been worldbuilding and lore. These "Epic!" characters and set pieces are trash that drag the entire setting through the mud.

Imo, i'ts jsut that he way their game is set up, is no where near the best to telling those sort of stories.

[Alanar]

Except Night Elves and Void Elves have literally nothing in common. I'd rather they give us campaigns for the core races first, and allied races later.

Then that might be time to bring them closer.. they are in the same alliance after all.

[Chonar]

The racial transmog questlines, while awfully short, do dip their toes into racial storytelling and development quite a bit. it's pretty nice.

[Reinhart11]

I think these kind of stories don't have to be restricted by race. For example: Blood Elves, Nightborne and Mogu and even Naga could be a good combination as well, because all of these races are hugely into magic, the Mogu especially, having probably the broadest magical spectrum of these races. And they have their titan race heritage and are literally born with their magic knowledge and don't have to the basic aspects of it. The Blood Elves and Mogu are also connected through the Anima, which both use and study.

I did a daily, "Through Blood and Dirt and Bone" in the Vale of Eternal Blossom for the Rajani, where you have to collect Anima from the Dokani Clan. The leader of the Rajani, Stormspeaker Qian, says: "The Dokani see themselves fit to wield the ancient magic of anima, but their golems and manifestations are but a fraction of anima's true power." This peaked my interest and its a theme which could be explored more in depth in such stories.

Another good example of a faction for this kind of story, which isn't largely based on the race, are the Illidari, which connected widely different races with Naga, Night Elves, Blood Elves, Fel Orcs and even certain demonic races, as long as they have a good theme which connects these races.

PS: And i sure hope there is more behind Stormspeaker Qians words than Anima being so important for the Shadowlands....

[cparle87]

Because then they'd have to write for more than just Blood Elves (living or dead) and Humans.

Sylvanas died before there was such a thing as a blood elf. She was/is a high elf.

[Amaterasu65]

Suramar questline was the epitome of a race's story progression. We mainly interacted with specific NPCs but through the quests we saw and learnt a lot about the race, their views,their political scene, problems and lifestyle. Pretty unique.

I will take Night Elves and Forsaken as examples. The Night Elves are refugees that relocate atop Hyjal. The Forsaken are abandoned and are presented a new leader. Both narratives have specific NPCs as a focus, but through the quests we can also see race progression.

[Nnyco]

Something less elves or human would be nice.

[ravenmoon]

I think these kind of stories don't have to be restricted by race. For example: Blood Elves, Nightborne and Mogu and even Naga could be a good combination as well, because all of these races are hugely into magic, the Mogu especially, having probably the broadest magical spectrum of these races. And they have their titan race heritage and are literally born with their magic knowledge and don't have to the basic aspects of it. The Blood Elves and Mogu are also connected through the Anima, which both use and study.

I did a daily, "Through Blood and Dirt and Bone" in the Vale of Eternal Blossom for the Rajani, where you have to collect Anima from the Dokani Clan. The leader of the Rajani, Stormspeaker Qian, says: "The Dokani see themselves fit to wield the ancient magic of anima, but their golems and manifestations are but a fraction of anima's true power." This peaked my interest and its a theme which could be explored more in depth in such stories.

Another good example of a faction for this kind of story, which isn't largely based on the race, are the Illidari, which connected widely different races with Naga, Night Elves, Blood Elves, Fel Orcs and even certain demonic races, as long as they have a good theme which connects these races.

PS: And i sure hope there is more behind Stormspeaker Qians words than Anima being so important for the Shadowlands....

You're right in saying they don't have to be race restricted. or exclusively race restricted.

they'd start tha tway or at least primarily be race oreintated, seeing they are tied to zones, and zones have a distinct racial flabour. But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be overlap. No one would expec tthe blood elf campaign not to involve interactions with neughobouring humans, whether it be ARgent dawn or whoever is handling the zones we call EPL/WPL now, + forsaken and amani.

Also races develop friendships, you wanna show Blood elf and Draenei friendships that have played several rolls, and you want to show more of the new blood elf and nightborne friendships too.

A way they could do that, using the nightborne example, is while they're part of the night elf campaign, they will play a part in some stage(s) of the blood elf campaign, which would be specifically written to involve the nightborne, this would be one of the times being a nightborne character would differ from a night elf character. Likewise, during that period, you can have the void elves have some human or night elven shared stages.

As time goes by, as you weave different stories, you w ill definitely have overlap, and I think players would ike this, because you want to explore the key facets of each race, and this is not soley restricted to their biology or their historical ties, it also involves current political ones as well, which you have to account for as wella s create new ones.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said.

as long as they have a good theme which connects these races.

. If they right it well, it would be very enjoyable.

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Something less elves or human would be nice.

Every race would have their own campaign, I'm sure humans would not appreciate "less humanity" in theirs, or elves not having something about them.

[Syegfryed]

they ac tually talk ab out having race campaign when asked about, they said right now they were working on faction campaign

note that 2 single campaign is easy and would cost less, 12 campaigns for the class would cost less, but there are a lot of races, to do one for each for each faction would be hard and would cost then a lot

of course they could make then paired, like humans x orcs, forsaken x worgens etc, or even allied races conjuncts, like the same campaign for draenei and lf draenei, same for tauren and hm tauren

the most problematic variable for me is, they did some good campaigns for the classes i give that, but other were pretty bad or lackluster, some bad lore about character and other goods, the point is, its rly that wise do the same thing with the races?

I imagine, with how they will have to do a lot of things with low effort and money, a lot of races getting crap campaigns, and the blizz favorites getting a lot of attention and "gifts" like some classes getting different mounts, pets, toys, etc

I also imagine tons of characters described as retards, like the faction campaign, death characters, and i don't rly want that at all.

[ravenmoon]

they ac tually talk ab out having race campaign when asked about, they said right now they were working on faction campaign

note that 2 single campaign is easy and would cost less, 12 campaigns for the class would cost less, but there are a lot of races, to do one for each for each faction would be hard and would cost then a lot

of course they could make then paired, like humans x orcs, forsaken x worgens etc, or even allied races conjuncts, like the same campaign for draenei and lf draenei, same for tauren and hm tauren

the most problematic variable for me is, they did some good campaigns for the classes i give that, but other were pretty bad or lackluster, some bad lore about character and other goods, the point is, its rly that wise do the same thing with the races?

I imagine, with how they will have to do a lot of things with low effort and money, a lot of races getting crap campaigns, and the blizz favorites getting a lot of attention and "gifts" like some classes getting different mounts, pets, toys, etc

I also imagine tons of characters described as retards, like the faction campaign, death characters, and i don't rly want that at all.

My hope is that it would be something they could add patch by patch, for many expansions, that way they can actually tell interesting and engaging stories for eveyrone. they have the capability, - it's jsut the desire for some is what I am wondering. WoW devs are famous for their "favourites" - you see it blatantly in a way i have'tnoticed in other games, so you could potentially receive rubbish if you're not a fave..., but I'd still rather have it that not, at least on the hope that some that are lacklustre and boring would improve or get interesting sequences down the line, but also, bear in mind not every race is for ever person, people are likely going to focus on theri favourites and advanced.


And the pairing idea is interesting, taht is another approach they could do, like lump all the humans, forsaken in one, lump all the elves in another, all the trolls , or do race on one faction versus another.