Reasoning for it?

[Soon-TM]

Argent Dawn/Crusade Lordaeronians? both applies to them lol and they didn't even care that their own countrymen was being tortured and experimented on and literally hunted down by the Forsaken

The AD/AC may be guilty by omission, but unlike Valeera, at least they didn't actively support their homeland's main enemy war effort.

[sam86]

IIRC, the given explanation for this was that Valeera, Broll, Varian, and others weren't technically slaves - they were indentured servants to their "sponsors" in the gladiatorial circuit, as they were able to buy their freedom from said sponsors with enough fights. The reality of this situation, as in most cases, was otherwise; but that's generally how they were able to fly under Thrall's relative radar and continue the gladiatorial games. Enforcement was also remarkably lax outside of Orgrimmar proper, as the Horde in general appreciated the games a great deal and didn't look too much into how fighters were treated or provided by the various outfits. Bloodeye Redfist, for instance, was able to secure his freedom from Reghar after become a champion of the games, and even joined Reghar as a fight-master in the games by pooling their resources to indenture more fighters between them.

Varian was taken in as a Theramore deserter, though this was largely a pretense. Charged with desertion and cowardice by the Horde he was forced to fight off his "debt" in the games accordingly.

so they aren't slaves, but working to pay their debts?
hmm, actually that does make them not slaves, so why she is calling herself sold as slave when she was paying debt, and the second she is done she is over?

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Argent Dawn/Crusade Lordaeronians? both applies to them lol and they didn't even care that their own countrymen was being tortured and experimented on and literally hunted down by the Forsaken

u talk like 1) it is general knowledge, while i doubt even half of forsaken know it, doubt the conclave that was rulling forsaken pre-BFA even allowed stuff like that
2) the lovely alliance never practiced that, u can check Trollbane history for reference, if anything forsaken probably doing that because they were ex-alliance

[Ardenaso]

2) the lovely alliance never practiced that, u can check Trollbane history for reference, if anything forsaken probably doing that because they were ex-alliance

I not in my best condition today so... what? Although Wroth, LeCraft, and Vishas did some heinous stuff, they wouldn't go as far as lobotomizing, blighting, feeding ghoul-transformer pumpkins, forcing captives to work in mines to death, or even cause girls to implode inside out.

[Zuben]

Everyone are born into something. A blood elf born today would likely be tied to Silvermoon and therefore the Horde. However, they are free to leave should they desire, at which point they no longer have obligation to said factions nor benefit from them. It's undesirable, but afaik neither Horde or Alliance forbid such action. And should those who leave join a faction that's officially an enemy of the faction they left, they become an enemy agent. Consider blood elves who joined the Twilight's Hammer. They are as much enemies of the Horde as blood elves who joined the Alliance.

The case of Valeera is this, but also different. She had already abandoned Silvermoon by the time they joined the Horde, so like Kael'thas she was never affiliated with the Horde. And while she was alone she was even forced to participate in Horde-sanctioned gladiatorial matches in slavery. Through a chain of events she ended up casting her lot in with House Wrynn, which effectually means she's Horde's enemy through her patron's affiliation with the Alliance. I wouldn't say she betrayed the Horde in any way. There is no such thing as racial obligation; Silvermoon is not all blood elves, just a faction formed by a considerable number of them.

[Aucald]

so they aren't slaves, but working to pay their debts?
hmm, actually that does make them not slaves, so why she is calling herself sold as slave when she was paying debt, and the second she is done she is over?

The reality is a bit more complex - they're functionally slaves, and while indentured can be bought and sold like chattel between handlers in the gladiatorial circuit, and they also don't have freedom of choice when it comes to their own lives. Most of them don't get the chance to buy their freedom before they die in the games, either; it's the rare champions like Bloodeye who manage it, or those who manage to escape the life. I can easily see why Valeera would view being indentured in such a way tantamount to slavery - the ability for them to purchase their freedom is less about charity and more about being able to fly under the radar, as it were. For most it's just a pipe-dream, and they're going to end up indentured to their handlers for the rest of their lives.

Anyone born free would consider this effective slavery.

[huth]

The AD/AC may be guilty by omission, but unlike Valeera, at least they didn't actively support their homeland's main enemy war effort.

She supported the Horde against Stormwind? Strange, never heard of that.

[Soon-TM]

She supported the Horde against Stormwind? Strange, never heard of that.

It's funny when you come with those "gotcha" quips, even funnier because evidently you either didn't read my post, or didn't understand it. Here it goes in basic .txt format:

Valeera supported the head of state of an enemy power at war with her homeland for at least 10 years.

The AD/AC humans (whom @Ardenaso was talking about) didn't support the head of state of an enemy power at war with their homeland for at least 10 years. Unlike Valeera.

It really can't be made any simpler

[huth]

It's funny when you come with those "gotcha" quips, even funnier because evidently you either didn't read my post, or didn't understand it.

I understood your post just fine. You're obviously having trouble with the fact that Valeera is not a member of the Horde or a resident of Silvermoon, and thus her support of Varian and Anduin does not constitute supporting an enemy power at war with her homeland. She'd have to collaborate with somebody against Stormwind for that.

[sam86]

wtf_happened_to_space_bar_here!?
i _can_write_normal _in_other_threads, just_checked

[Aucald]

wtf_happened_to_space_bar_here!?
i _can_write_normal _in_other_threads, just_checked

Seems to be working fine on my end?

[Soon-TM]

I understood your post just fine. You're obviously having trouble with the fact that Valeera is not a member of the Horde or a resident of Silvermoon, and thus her support of Varian and Anduin does not constitute supporting an enemy power at war with her homeland. She'd have to collaborate with somebody against Stormwind for that.

• BLood Elves are Horde aligned.
• Valeera is a Blood Elf.
• Valeera should be Horde aligned, or at the very least neutral vis-a-vis the Horde, like e.g. the Tauren druids in the Cenarion Circle.

Since she clearly isn't either Horde or neutral, she's Alliance aligned. Which makes her a traitor.

[cparle87]

It does bind her though. Silvermoon is a !@#$ing monarchy, so she doesn't get to disavow Bob's legitimate authority without becoming a traitor.

You mean the authority of a regent who was appointed by a guy who betrayed the world by siding with the Legion? Not saying that Lor'themar is a bad ruler, but trying to claim she's a traitor for not following someone who became leader in a questionable way is off.

[sam86]

Seems to be working fine on my end?

i should taken screenshot, i swear when i logged there was no space bar in this thread specifically, i did post in another thread and there was space bar, this one didn't
anyway now i can read it again...

[Soon-TM]

You mean the authority of a regent who was appointed by a guy who betrayed the world by siding with the Legion? Not saying that Lor'themar is a bad ruler, but trying to claim she's a traitor for not following someone who became leader in a questionable way is off.

Kaelthas appointed Bob before going nuts. Try again.

[Super Dickmann]

Nevermind people on the official forums, I have a question for you, OP. What motivates you to make Valeera threads? I can understand she's got a nice pair of tits and thighs on her, and that's all well and good, but she's less relevant to the plot than Onyxia and Nefarian, and their sole appearances is as corpses, that being their state for ten years.

[cparle87]

Kaelthas appointed Bob before going nuts. Try again.

Goes to credibility. Just look at all the scripted npc events going on in Orgrimmar. All the former Banshee Loyalists getting grilled for siding with Sylvanas before it was revealed she was batshit nuts. Anyone would walk up to Lor'themar and say "Why should I accept you as my leader? Look who handed you your position. Why should I trust and listen to you."

[Soon-TM]

Goes to credibility. Just look at all the scripted npc events going on in Orgrimmar. All the former Banshee Loyalists getting grilled for siding with Sylvanas before it was revealed she was batshit nuts. Anyone would walk up to Lor'themar and say "Why should I accept you as my leader? Look who handed you your position. Why should I trust and listen to you."

Because saying that what is happening in Org now happened in Silvermoon as well back then is 100% fanfiction. What isn't fanfiction is this:

Lor'themar assumed temporary leadership of the high elves and, along with his much-reduced forces, remained in Quel'Thalas after the fall of Silvermoon as a resistance to the Scourge remnants.

Not long afterwards, Prince Kael'thas returned from Dalaran to proclaim the rebirth of the former high elves as the blood elves, or sin'dorei, in honor of their fallen brethren. Chosen as Regent of Quel'Thalas, Lor'themar was commanded to "safeguard the land and find a cure for his people".

Looks like Bob's rule is 100% legit

[huth]

• BLood Elves are Horde aligned.
• Valeera is a Blood Elf.
• Valeera should be Horde aligned, or at the very least neutral vis-a-vis the Horde, like e.g. the Tauren druids in the Cenarion Circle.

• Valeera is not Horde aligned
• Valeera is a Blood Elf
• Therefore, not all Blood Elves are Horde aligned

For that matter:

• Kael'thas is not Horde aligned
• Kael'thas is a Blood Elf
• Therefore, not all Blood Elves are Horde aligned

Since she clearly isn't either Horde or neutral, she's Alliance aligned. Which makes her a traitor.

Actually, no. It means she isn't a traitor unless she works with another force against the Alliance. Working against a group you aren't part of or pretending to be part of does not make you a traitor. Somebody mistaking you for a member of said group makes that person wrong, nothing more.

[Soon-TM]

• Valeera is not Horde aligned
• Valeera is a Blood Elf
• Therefore, not all Blood Elves are Horde aligned

For that matter:

• Kael'thas is not Horde aligned
• Kael'thas is a Blood Elf
• Therefore, not all Blood Elves are Horde aligned

Actually, no. It means she isn't a traitor unless she works with another force against the Alliance. Working against a group you aren't part of or pretending to be part of does not make you a traitor. Somebody mistaking you for a member of said group makes that person wrong, nothing more.

Dude, don't be dense. Even in modern times, if you were, say, French, and France was involved in a large scale war against, say, the UK, you'd be very much expected to aid your country (i.e. France) in some capacity. Now, you might think that the war in question is injust, or you might be a pacifist, or you could even sympathize with the British - and that would be ok. But the moment you start actively aiding the British prime minister against your homeland, you become automatically a traitor.

[FelPlague]

So I see a lot of horde people calling valeera a traitor on the official forums, why do people think that is true? Because she is a Horde race?

idk why anyone thinks valeera was ever part of the horde?
shes 100% alliance, she was a gladiator captured in a neutral (as in not horde or alliance, it seems these people would be hostile to both faction) faction of gladiator owners.
she joined with broll and varian as a gladiator team and they escaped together, so she has always followed varian as he is the one that freed her from that place.

Valeera is a traitor to the Horde. If she had even an ounce of respect, she would join the Horde now instead of being an Alliance bootlicker who don't even respect her.

LOLOL no so you arnt seeing a lot, you are seeing just you.

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• BLood Elves are Horde aligned.
• Valeera is a Blood Elf.
• Valeera should be Horde aligned, or at the very least neutral vis-a-vis the Horde, like e.g. the Tauren druids in the Cenarion Circle.

Since she clearly isn't either Horde or neutral, she's Alliance aligned. Which makes her a traitor.

Nah, the blood elves are traitors, they were alliance but ditched ot join the horde.
all the blood elves are traitors, the void elves, high elves, and valeera are the ones who aren't traitors.