"These women fight with unmatched savagery!... They are... perfect warriors!"

[OriginalName]

thanks to them Anasterian and Thalorien are just soulless oversized creeps in game; and the cutscenes and UI were pulled out

Why would those guys have a place in wc3 anyways

[Alanar]

Nope because you take what happened in game (with its technical limitations) as canon. She destroyed the bridge while on it because she could not do it from a distance (Lunar fall power is centered around the caster btw) and there was no time to set up explosives before they get overrun.

So how about nope?

Then she should have thought about that before.. its everything with her that screams nope. Not just this.

Even back then I questioned the savagery and awrsomeness people said about the night elves..
Even in wow there is no improvement on them imo, until legion happened and there is no way to fix night elves. They will forever be known as the losers of warcraft.

[Ardenaso]

Why would those guys have a place in wc3 anyways

probably because there's the prince of the blood elves and... where the hell was the king when his nation was being genocided? I agree with Thalorien though

[Aucald]

There was no reason for her to make it seem like her last stand: FOR THE KAL DOREI... ye nope.

Its nice you are trying to justify it and make it in line with the story.. but cmon even some rp doesnt cut this.

It was dramatic and a narrative set-piece, showing Tyrande's development from WC3 (where her demeanor was a bit colder and more callous) and her willingness to sacrifice herself to preserve life. I don't think I'm "justifying" it at all - more detracting from the silly meme people have made it into by stripping away all the scene's nuance and its connection to a wider context in the name of laughing at Tyrande as a character. Sure, I'd agree Tyrande is a flawed character and has done some stupid and silly things in a few of her portrayals, but I don't think this is one of them. Her taking a last stand to preserve the lives of the Blood Elven refugees of Dalaran, Kael'thas, and Maiev is completely in keeping with her personality as a Priestess of Elune and protector of life. My description of the events accurately portray what the game is relating in terms of the story.

[OriginalName]

probably because there's the prince of the blood elves and... where the hell was the king when his nation was being genocided? I agree with Thalorien though

Its an expanded lore thing, not wc3 thing.

[Zulkhan]

The Night Elven empire largely spread due to a lack of unity among the trolls, as well as superior magics. So, their past is more "They are perfect magic users" rather than warriors. Never have they been portrayed as or stated to be mighty warriors in the past. Their history ALWAYS talks about their magics and never their martial skill. And their present is always a "They have good archers."

Not to mention that the elven warriors of the empire are hardly similar to the tree-hugging bunch that came to be with the fall of that empire and the new leadership of Malfurion and Tyrande, where the Night Elves began to become truly intertwined with nature and most likely got their "savagery" back from that kind of lifestyle.

[Eggroll]

Well, that's curious, considering how hard Blizzard tries to be woke nowadays, yet the one non-evil society that is dominated by female warriors first and foremost are eternally pitiable sandbags there to make the Horde look powerful time and again.

You'd think if they really wanted to sell fake female empowerment, they'd take advantage of the night elves and at least, I dunno.. make them halfway competent?

My thoughts exactly. That's why I think the whole women equality thing by Blizz is just a marketing gag. The nelven matriarchy would be an ideal example to build an ingame female rolemodel society. But no.

This is why you can tell this game is run by adolescents trapped in the bodies of old white men and their d8cks. Whe might have a chance at actual gender equality when those old white men die out. Wouldn't hold my breath, though.

[AsgardBY99]

Night elves have no sense of the rights of men and women.

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Not insinuating that they are truly matriarchal, because I know that's a cliché that is passed around a lot about night elves.

But they are still a society of predominantly female warriors, and the way Blizzard portrays them is as incompetent jobbers. They are almost Team Rocket levels of incapable, and that's if you take away the fact that at least Team Rocket is proactive, while the night elves are just reactive.

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You know, I hate this cliché, too.

There is no practical reason why the night elves should be defanged just to fit in the Alliance, just as there is no reason to smear blood elves and nightborne in muds and tear up their clothes in order for them to fit in the Horde. Maybe Blizzard does treat things that way, but that doesn't mean it's an inevitability, an innate requirement-- it just means Blizzard is incompetent at writing factions that aren't total monoliths and prefers to push their human Alliance fantasy over anything.

If anything, I feel like night elves got nerfed in the first place by making them part of any greater faction, since they were formerly their own faction in terms of strength, yet now they had to become part of a faction, which meant they couldn't keep their former might. But even then, that's not an excuse for just how hard they get shit on in WoW.

Night elves have no sense of the rights of men and women.

[Calfredd]

Night elves have no sense of the rights of men and women.

Were you planning on elaborating or...?

[AsgardBY99]

They abandoned one type of magic and took up others. They were still, ironically, led by powerful magic users: One divine, one nature.

It was always a weird irony that they abandoned one highly magical and charismatic queen for another. Sure, Tyrande doesn't call herself a queen, but her position is still one entirely based on magic as she did nothing to earn it but have a beacon of light shine on her. Abandoned their monarchy for a theocracy.

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My point is that their WC3 depiction isn't far off from the WoW one. They weren't really portrayed as especially powerful or mighty, needing either saving more often than not, or major allies. More so than the other races.

Night elves use arcane in a different way than mages; theirs is softer, and their arcane will neutralize each other with natural magic, rather than just using arcane.

[Unholyground]

My thoughts exactly. That's why I think the whole women equality thing by Blizz is just a marketing gag. The nelven matriarchy would be an ideal example to build an ingame female rolemodel society. But no.

This is why you can tell this game is run by adolescents trapped in the bodies of old white men and their d8cks. Whe might have a chance at actual gender equality when those old white men die out. Wouldn't hold my breath, though.

There will never be gender equality as the genders are both equality different in many aspects that are actually quite complimentary to each other, and that is an advantage not a disadvantage.

But ya a lot of backward thinking people need to go the way of the dinosaurs for sure.

[Tuor]

Night elves have no sense of the rights of men and women.

Actually they do, females keep their society running whille males are sleeping in the emerald dream, in other words, males are meant to become druids whille females do all the rest.

[Hellspawn]

As a lot of people already said night elfs in wow were mostly... human buddies and neutral druid stuff. Also punching bag for the Horde.
The current writers may shift this in the future. The 8.1 Darkshore was... somewhat of an badly executed first first pump. But could be also nothing, who knows.

[Fetus Rex]

This quote is from W3. Male Night Elves were in deep slumber then and so the females needed to find an outlet for their frustrations. Now that males are awake they can pester them and focus on passive-aggressiveness.

[DemonHunter18]

It's only cringy because we've seen Night Elves get spanked repeatedly so it's out of character for them to suddenly be these ruthless "monsters"

partially true.

more like that was amateur level of cinematic

/applause
/cheer
/salute
/laugh
/kneel

[Claymore]

I definitely remember the OP's quote well and often.

I always took it as Grom was really only familiar with fighting mostly Humans. And let's be real; Humans were not traditionally very good warriors, in terms of Warcraft history. Where the Horde relied almost solely upon brute force and martial savagery, the Alliance relied more on ingenuity and tactics. Grom (like many Orcs) probably only considers people by how they would fare in a one-on-one fight.

Night Elves, in many ways, are the Elven counterparts to Orcs; where Orcs attack with overwhelming brute force, Night Elves fought with ruthless precision. But Night Elves were equally primitive (albeit by choice) to Orcs, and I think that's what drew Grom's attention. They didn't rely on "tricks" or "technology" like humans, but instead met them on equal footing, and the expertly-trained Night Elves far surpassed the blind-swinging that had gotten the Orcs this far. It was only through "cheating" and drinking Mannoroth's blood were the Orcs able to defeat the Night Elves.

It's really just a shame that since WC3, Night Elves are always represented as tree-hugging pacifists. I suspect it's because people thought Malfurion was more interesting than Tyrande. That, and with Druids being exclusive to Night Elves, they probably just thought "that's what will define them" when they were swallowed by the Alliance.

[Leyre]

They are perfect in the sense that they fought to death and didnt bubblestone their way out of a fight

[Soon-TM]

They fought to death and didnt bubblestone their way out of a fight

*cough* Jaina *cough*

[ravenmoon]

That quote may not be the most well known in Warcraft - though certainly up there - but it is the most influential by far.

Is too much weight put behind this above quote from Grom? What I mean is, Night Elf fans seem to always fall back on this quote when discussing how powerful Night Elves should be. They don't seemingly have anything else to fall back on in regards to how mighty individual Night Elves are supposed to be, not even from WC3 itself which didn't capitalize on how "Perfect" the night elves are aside from saying it the one time- mind you, they then proceed to have the one Orcish clan demolish the offending army of "Perfect warriors". They have no particular warriors of note; yes they have leaders and generals, but those either fall back on magic, or are neither portrayed nor stated to be especially skilled like champions of other races may be said to be; the closest is Shandris but in novels she's portrayed as average, and in game its hard to tell since she's more or less on par with anyone else you might partner with, the most that can be said is she doesn't like planning things out.

This isn't to dis on Night Elves mind you. Rather, I feel that many have hamstrung themselves by putting way to much behind the words of one single individual. It's almost ironic that the most important thing to many Night Elf fans is the words of an Orc. It makes discussion difficult as often it falls back into complaining about how Night Elves were once great warriors! Remember that time Grom said the thing!?

People completely over interpreted that statement on the public forums, but hearing it over and over again on the 1000s replay of Wc3, gave it a life of it's own as people literally ignored or rejected the 95% character of the night elves just to focus on that.


Wow, and the novels show so much of the night elves, yet so many ignore that.

I feel what people want was night elves feeling dangerous, recognised as being powerful.. they want wc3 night elves so badly as if it is the presentation that made night elves great and her calling for the wrong thing.

What they really want is night elves to feel dangerous and powerful, not push overs in all the various versions and kinds of night elves

[Beloren]

Night elves, savage? fierce? - LMAO -




Lol, night elf fans wanna be tough and gritty - LMAO - night elves are mostly goodly/ peaceful types - you guys have WAAAAYYYYY over read into this. Blizzard wanted you to know their females were tough and amazing that's it. But this is like the wimpy teenage boy that wants to be tough backed up by the dykes have tried to make them more than they are. They're chicks, this wasn't even counting the dudes, it was night elf chicks going roar/oo - nothing more. In wow, they're the most girly of the girls, jumping to make their boobs flap.

But fans only see the one sentence, and the one encounter and totally misread the WHOLE race from that. LMAO - Nelf fans deny EVERYTHING blizzard has shown about their race to cling to this. No one pays attention to detail these days.

Worgen, Orcs, Trolls, Pandas, Tauren just laugh at the "savage" night elves