It doesnt matter how good you are anymore

[apustus]

Indeed and this sucks.
Now everyone with a OP corruption does more dps then you.

Only if you're terrible.

[chronia]

Yep, I did.^^

Nah, ofc not. Actually "gear" was never a topic matter in the discussion of the WF race.

I don't think ppl brought it up at all. What was brought up (other than Blizzard favouritism or exploits) was "lol, Method's dps sucks" - which is interesting if you guys are right that both guilds spend millions, buying the best gear with the right corruption - because then...skill / teamwork / dedication etc matters after all?

I don't disagree that there is RNG favoring ppl with an OP corruption btw. It just gets blown out of proportion TBH

Thats completely false though, on both Streams gear and unbalance of corruption were basicly one of the hottest topics, since RNG was basicly a big driving factor in this race. Being lucky or unlucky on corruption drops (or availability on AH) makes a huge difference in output. Gear was a very big discussion point during this race, possibly the thing that got discussed the most.

Sure a few fanbois kept mentioning that they think X was erxploiting or Y was exploiting, but that was never taken seriously (as it should).

For example this Tweet from Limit's GM https://twitter.com/maximumwow/statu...69323990814724 , 250 million in debt alone for buying corruption BoE's, and thats on top of the gold they spent before going in debt. It seems thats its worth $40000 dollar, i wouldn't call that "blown out of proportion".

Method (i think Sco and later Cayna) was talking about going atleast 100 million debt for the same reason, but i don't think they strated their definitive debt number at somepoint. This is one of the tweets from Cayna replying to Max https://twitter.com/CaynaWoW/status/1225570395589353478

It never really did.

You have a point about RNG. I think there's too much but people have been complaining about RNG since day one. Big raid groups in Vanilla with stingy drops. Your priest getting strength gear. Nothing new. Just different things in different times.

How would a priest get Strength gear in Vanilla Raids, thats only possible if he rolls or bids on the wrong gear, or the loot council awards him the wrong gear. That has not a lot to do with RNG.

The biggest gripe in Vanilla / Classic is generally not the RNG (because there is hardly any RNG in Vanilla / Classic compared to modern days, its just the item drops or it doesn't). But the fact that bosses only drop 2-3 on average for 40 ppl making it so that theres not a big pile of loot to distribute in general.

i can't remember 100%, but actually i think that one of the things that made WoW more popular in Vanilla days is that it actually was less RNG based than for example EverQuest.

Because GearScore was so much better. Memories are remarkably short here.

Not that i liked gearscore (as it was terrible), but i don't think gearscore is compareable. In gear score times ppl equipped worthless items to get a higher score in a addon.

Nowadays ppl play the gear lottery to get low end gear that due to RNG effects enables them to get higher scores. Its kinda the complete opposite of gearscore.

[Gaidax]

But that ultimately means it is worse than titanforging. Because TF:

1. Was damn simple
2. Did not grant significant power to one item - this really should be avoided in MMOs. (+20 ilvl TF was like 1% dps increase)
3. ilvl mattered.

But people with OCD complained so we got corruption.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind either system because gear is JUST a tool for me. Couldn't care less about it as long as I can get it relatively fast to down the bosses.
And both were still FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAR better system than legiondaries. The only time I raged and flamed left and right about gear in WoW.

No it's not for the very simple reason - with corruption you are in control, because you can get same bonus in many slots until the global cap.

TF is very binary - either the slot titanforged or not, where as with this system - if you don't have corruption in one slot, then you can just get it in another one and it ultimately won't matter, because you can't really afford to have corruption on all pieces due to softcaps.


Corruption sure has shortcomings as I pointed it out, but it is certainly better than TF when it comes to RNG.

[Echocho]

It's still a lot better than titanforging because sooner or later you'll get a piece with the corruption effect you want. Getting an entire set of max titanforged gear with sockets was impossible.

This way you can actually sort of have a BiS list to go for. If some of those items corrupt that's great and if they don't it's no big deal since you can't equip all of them anyway.

[ping-pong]

Bad players will always find excuses of why everything sucks and everything is set up in such a way that they, the ultimate player, cannot show their true potential through meters. It is always the hardest thing in life: to look in the mirror and accept that you're not all that.

Get a grip on reality. Good players are still good, best players are still best. You are what you are. System is not to blame.

[Phaine]

Blizzard, 3 words, I ... Miss ... Legion.

[Stickiler]

Thats the dumbest thing I read today, the game is about progression of your character so you suggest we remove the highest levels of the game?

Just so you can faceroll it afk and call it a day yeah that sounds fun and healthy for the game.

Single player scenarios with NPCs would be much better than the current "LFR" IMO.
You zone in to have NPCs that have the fights scripted instead of zoning in to lfr tanks "firs time here what to do" and wipe 10 times.

I know it's hard to realise over text, but he's being sarcastic, mocking the guy he's replying to(Who wants to remove LFR).

[Hyrican]

You have to stop blaming your lack of skill on the gear drop. I am running M+ only with Twisted Appendage (which daels like 5% of my overall dmg), and I don't struggle with overall dps or timing keys... If anything, it is low IO people who thinks they're better than 2k+ guys, and do dumb random moves, fails the keys most of the time.

Btw. how you can get total of 4 corruptions in 3 weeks. When you have 100% to get corruption items from weekly pvp and pve chests.

It is easy because of full rng you can get useless trinkets in chests, that can not corrupt, or you get 3 bracers in a row. So even if you do 2x3 chests, you will not get 6 corrupted items at 100% ... So there are people that got much less and others that got 15 corrupted items.

My best corrupted items are 410 and 420 from wquest and vision, even though i got lots of corrupted items (in always the same slots).

You can definitely achieve good rio as a good player without those.. The complaint is valid that another player who almost auto attacks is achieving similar things with dumb luck.

It is too much for a corrupted item to add 8k to 20k dps depending on ilvl and corruption effect. That is why echoing void was nerfed... i wonder why they keep infinite stars still like this. I expect a nerf next round.

The nerfbat swinging 2 times nerfing a corrupted effect to 25% of initial values is a very obvious way to show they are still doing the same mistakes as with the azerite traits at start of bfa.

15 item levels are about 15% increase in power level... divide that by the number of slots and that is what an equivalent to a corruption / titanforge should bring: 1-3% in overall power.

[munkeyinorbit]

A DH in my raid has Twilight Devastation. I don't. I had more casts of Anni or Death Sweep/Blade Dance than he had, but Twilight Devastation was always his highest damage source, even on single target. Guess he's better, logs percentiles say so.

Well he is. He is using his tools more effectively than you. I'm not surprised though because a player who is actually good would use their time to get better. Not go to a fan website to show how selfish they are and would rather the guild perform worse to keep their fragile ego in tact.

[Brewhan]

the game was much better before, when the mithic + did not exist and the reputations with tabards were raised, besides the raider io did not exist.

Now the itemlvl is no longer enough, on top of that you have to have raider io punctuation .... to be able to enter a group for anything insignificant,like an easy warfront hc....

wow is no longer fun, it has become a job, in which you have to do everything forced, without wanting to do it .... I no longer remember what it was to "play wow" ...

I feel ya my brotha. Just like arthas after being defeated when he said " Is it over father?? No king rules forever my son... I see only darkness before me..."

The darkness before us represents BFA and going into shadowlands.. even more darkness... goodnight sweet prince

[Monster Hunter]

Well only 1 person has Hand of Rag in my guild and we gave it to a shammy and wtf are you even talking about. Lmao. I don't agree with you or any of your future posts, no, just no.

Only 2 peeps in my guild hae Infinate Stars, you might not agree, dosnt mean I'm not still right.

[Azerox]

Only if you're terrible.

If you raid heroic/mythic no1 is terrible and the higher corruptions shine.

[mauserr]

Well he is. He is using his tools more effectively than you. I'm not surprised though because a player who is actually good would use their time to get better. Not go to a fan website to show how selfish they are and would rather the guild perform worse to keep their fragile ego in tact.

Right, because when an item drops we can decide what corruption and which rank of it we want. I'm not selfish, nowhere have I said I'd rather he didn't have the corruption. I'm just saying OP is somewhat right, because a worse player can perform better DPS wise if he gets lucky with corruptions, which is what the thread is mostly about. Now get lost with your stupidity.

[deenman]

It really doesnt matter how good you are anymore, if your unlucky your shit, if your lucky your op.

2300 rio ppl dieing to season 1 mechanics in 17s/18s because there corruption carried them through 16s.
while there are good people who are struggling to do the 16s because they dont have the overpowered corruption to carry them through.
good players with overpowered corruption are already miiiiles ahead in rio.
played with a 2500 rio rdruid yday....top of fail meter.....rank 5 stars.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

corruption is far worse than legion legos because there is no blp.

the only good corruption i have is the corruption i bought, spending over 1.5million because i KNEW rng would shaft me (which it has)

my chests have contained
bm Hunter:
haste versa ring with versa on taking damage chance.....lol
crit/mastery wep with chance on versa when taking damage....lol

Druid:
void ritual....lol
avoidance.....lol (though i think this will be useful high tyanical unfortunately nobody has the brains for this yet)

Sort it out blizzard for fuck sake.

wrong wrong and wrong,no ammount of luck and corruption gear will help you in high keys if your bad,corruption gear doesnt save you,if anything it will kill you lol,good corruption gear will only really help good players be way better,yeah the system with its rng factor sucks a lot,but it in no way rewards bad people for just having it,you only look good on meters in normal raids

[odamienskii]

wrong wrong and wrong,no ammount of luck and corruption gear will help you in high keys if your bad,corruption gear doesnt save you,if anything it will kill you lol,good corruption gear will only really help good players be way better,yeah the system with its rng factor sucks a lot,but it in no way rewards bad people for just having it,you only look good on meters in normal raids

Thats entirely my point!!

These guys are getting into high keys by getting boosted through middle keys, when they are entering the high keys they are failing on season 1 mechanics.

Same goes for skilled ppl in higher keys, it will be limiting how high they can go because they dont have the extra dps from lucky corruption which could be the difference between intime and not. dont tell me a 10kdps overall difference due to corruption couldnt be the difference in say an 18/19 key.

- - - Updated - - -

I don’t see that as a flaw. Each rank does the same amount of damage per point of corruption. If anything, the Rank 1 traits are more desirable later on because they can be used more flexibly with other corruption effects.

The actual flaw with the system was imbalance among the different effects, and Blizzard didn’t test at ALL. This led to infinite stars/echoing void/twilight devastation being double or triple the power per point of corruption of the other effects. This problem compounded with higher Ranks. Rank 3 infinite stars was 9x more powerful than Rank 1 void ritual (maybe more), where it should have only been 3x more powerful. Had all of the effects been balanced, the rank system wouldn’t have been an issue.

You dont see the flaw? imagine waiting a month and finally you get the best corruption you could want on a 475 ring, now take your worst stat and imagine that its stacked with that.

While there will be people getting that very same corruption on a ring stacked with there best stat, do you realise the difference a correctly statted ring makes? compared to the polar opposite? id dare say as powerful as some corruption itself.

- - - Updated - - -

This is my major problem with this system. As a Disc Priest who likes doing damage in M+ I run high Infinite Stars and I also now have a Mage with quite decent Infinite Stars set (just a scrub alt I play around in lower keys) and the difference is immense in how I can handle the Thing From Beyond and lesser annoying aspects of it.

And there definitely is something wrong with the game if it does not obviously translate and indicate to you what XYZ does.

yep, paladins and dhs can run 79 comfortably with there utilities, thats not a misbalance at all is it.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not too much different from me getting jack squat for a good month of ICC while the other warrior got Deathbringer's Will week one, 4 pc week two or three and was chosen to wield Shadowmourne when we (very eventually!) managed to get it. Or getting that lucky Edgemaster's Handguards in Classic. Gear has always mattered the most when it comes to performance in this game, and the drops have always been RNG. It's worse with corruption but only by a degree, and it is also infinitely more farmable than the raid drops of yore. Plus some of the best corrupted items often come from the M+ cache (guaranteed corruption) or raid weapons (guaranteed specific corruption).

I'm eager to see what they do with leggys in Shadowlands. The new acquisition method seems far more deterministic than in the past. Why they didn't apply this lesson in BFA is obvious, WoW has a really long lead time when it comes to development. 8.3 and its systems were in the pipeline by the time we were raiding BoD at the very latest. They can't really just turn things off and restart easily.

Not much difference? apart from the fact that the other warrior in your raid now has it, and next time it drops your next in line. it took me about 2 months to get 100% arp on fury warrior in icc which was no easy thing, i honestly feel like i could go the entire season and not get anywhere near optimal bis, how is that comparable?

Of course raiders will have an advantage because people may eventually start passing about corrupted gear.

- - - Updated - - -

You did not get a guaranteed legion legendary in your weekly welfare box. Corrupted items are much more frequent and the way system works is that you are capped by rating instead of amount of equipped items, with varying tiers you can pretty easily mix and match decent corruption sets, where as Legion was pretty binary - you either got that awesome ass item or didn't.

For example we're like what - one month in and people who did their shit are already corruption capped and with not bad sets either. Given another month and just about everyone who gives a damn will rock 1-2 optimal sets for their favorite activity.

Theres also no protection from you getting versa proc on damage taken every week for the rest of the expansion.

[Charge me Doctor]

I love that implication that anyone who beats %s and has corrupted items on him is a filthy casual who can't play the game and wins only because of corrupted items, that %s doesn't have. Sure, whatever floats your boat

[schwarzkopf]

He's saying being better or putting more effort into the game isn't rewarding. Having amazing luck is.

Depends on what your goal is ... I'm an average player, and I'll never do most of the stuff that good players do - even if my gear is better than theirs.

Good luck can give me a nice car, but it can't take me on a journey.

[Charge me Doctor]

LFR makes players terrible. LFR makes gear feel worthless, as does World Quests. Oh, you got a TF 445 WQ piece tapping a mob at 2% HP? Wow, it took me forever to get mine clearing M EP.

LFR actually removes shitty players from the pool because they have a place to be

[schwarzkopf]

LFR actually removes shitty players from the pool because they have a place to be

Not being able to raid normal doesn't make you a shitty player - unless someone made current raids solo over night, it is entirely irrational to classify LFR raiders as shitty.

You put ANY bunch of random people into a raid without any comms - and LFR is what you end up with.

[Tradu]

It does still matter, it just matters less, because of all the random corruption/azerite trait/trinket/benthic etc damage that you get for free just by existing(as well as auto attacks being a bigger part of melees' damage). This isn't a new thing, though, Blizzard has been eroding the reward for skilled play more and more with each expansion since at least MoP.

- - - Updated - - -

I love that implication that anyone who beats %s and has corrupted items on him is a filthy casual who can't play the game and wins only because of corrupted items, that %s doesn't have. Sure, whatever floats your boat

It absolutely happens. Our other Ele shaman is better than I am, and yet I compete with him, or beat him, on some fights where my Infinite Stars just pops off(or on Hivemind first kill where my Twilight Devastation did like 15% of my damage with 0 skill required on my end). That shouldn't happen, he should always, consistently be doing more than me. It gets harder and harder to tell who's the better player the more random free damage Blizzard adds to the game, while reducing the reward for playing correctly(like reducing Bloodtalons from 50% snapshot to 25%)