They were doing their job of defending a Council member from a hostile. A hostile that just returned to Dalaran after violating its neutrality by aiding Darnassus against the Horde. Which Jaina didn't even hide. Just the opposite, she openly proclaimed to the Alliance player aiding her that she was personally capturing, wounding or killing Horde soldiers (depending on what her traps did). Which made Jaina the traitor there. A traitor that committed their treason before the Bell was even stolen.
Not that she had any evidence of Aethas being a traitor anyway. Because she didn't even have definite proof of Sunreavers' involvement in the theft. All she had was a portal left by a non-Sunreaver Blood Elf from Reliquary that connected to the Dalaran portal network. With the Dalaran portal to Darnassus being located in the Silver Covenant side of the city. Nor did she actually have any authority to make any demands to Aethas on her own given how Dalaran is ruled by the Council of Six, with its leader having so little individual power they don't even have a tie-breaker vote.
Saurfang was second best in my opinion. He was definitely the main protagonist. However, he had some dubious writing here and there, but finished off strong with Old Soldier and the final cinematic, completing a great overall arc with just a couple of weak points in his story early on.
She murdered anyone who fought back when she was attempting to UNLAWFULLY imprison them. You also did a quest for her that involved just straight up murdering belves in Dalaran.
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Gorak Tul is 100% dead.
If any Lord Admiral can do it, why didn't her mom do it long before Jaina showed up? Suddenly it couldn't be done until Jaina showed up, marking her as a Mary Sue.
It's not the flying ship portion that makes her a Mary Sue. It's the fact she does it 100% ALONE.
Ok fine, I'll give you the focusing iris one because I forgot about it.
She is regarded as the most powerful living human spellcaster.
I'm aware of the things she's done. What I'm saying is those things aren't considered to be bad. Just that she was "misunderstood" or whatever.
She didn't lose leadership. She threw a bitch fit and left because the Kirin Tor disagreed with her. They didn't actually strip her of her rank.
Jaina: Long training stint at most powerful mage academy in azeroth. Long heritage of powerful people in her family. Demonstrated and recognizable skill. 404, mary sue not found.
Sylvanas: Long history as BAMF windrunner before getting murdered. Any big "power up" she gets granted by some outside source that has the capability of giving it. 404, mary sue not found.
Sylvanas is by far the more annoying one, and the more inconsistently written one. Struggling to block saurfang's shots, getting sliced in the face, only to then turn around and act like they're nothing while you wail on him is fucking garbage. Somehow being able to freely wade into the frozen throne ALONE without getting swarmed by the scourge and then having a nice cordial fight 1v1 with Arthas2.0 while the rest of his minions stand there looking dumb is also incredibly stupid.
Still, not what I'd call a mary sue.
I'd still put khadgar ahead of jaina imo.
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The way I interpreted summoning the fleet is that Jaina was assisted by her powers and I think he mom just didn't have a clear head.
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None of your list rebukes anything he said. Literally none of it. Nor does it address it at all. I get the feeling you just like to debate even when there's no debate in sight.
“I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
― Ronald Regan
None because Mary Sue is currently a term used by any idiot to describe any character they don't like, completely ignoring its actual meaning
Given that dalaran didn’t do in thing in response it’s safe to assume they didn’t find it all that unlawful, Mabye they should have responded but they didn’t.
Jiana also didn’t give you any quest to murder elfs she tells you to follow what’s her face high elf and even then all the npcs are hostile sure that could have just been for gameplay reasons but we can’t know one way or another.
Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2020-02-20 at 07:18 PM.
Mary Sue is becoming the new most over used and misused word to date when it comes to media. I am pretty sure that the people using this havent even done the work needed to understand what Mary Sue is, what it derived from and what it attains into context... I am sure I'll get the same three answers, She's too powerful, she's the writers pet, and she is cliche... If you think that its just about that then you know nothing.
Neither Jaina or Sylvanas are Mary Sue's, in no way shape of form. Now if you want to say they are badly written thats another debate that can have legs to stand on, but that doesn't belong in the same discussion as something as this.
Last edited by Orby; 2020-02-20 at 07:33 PM.
It's not like Jaina left them much wiggle room there (speaking of the Council here, not the guards, since I'm assuming so are you). She single-handedly (well, with a slight help from Stormwind since despite Varian's later objections in regards to the whole thing he still helped her out) put Dalaran on collision course with Horde led by Garrosh who wouldn't just go down to negotiate with a bunch of humans telling him it was her doing since by that point he was already on world-conquest mode. But we already have an example of how Dalaran deals with traitorous Council members in Kel'thuzad and even then Antonidas wasn't acting alone but with two other members of the Council, making it a majority (neither was he using Vereesa's private militia and Stormwind's soldiers rather than Kirin Tor resources to deal with the issue).
Ah, yes, pointing out how Saurfang went down after a chat totally doesn't rebuke a claim about how he incapacitated Anduin
Technically she has been stated to be the strongest human sorceress. So it's narrowed down to race, sex and a specific type of spellcaster.
Look my feelings are not up for debate and your attempt to use reasoning in the context of the game "well this is how I think something works based on how things worked in other parts of the game!" instead of the only thing I'll accept as actual evidence (which is being shown or told so in a direct manner by an official blizzard person themselves, as opposed to having to infer or make assumptions as you are) means you should just stop now.
Basically my head canon > actual canon > your head canon and that isn't changing. Ever. So don't bother engaging with me in debate about such topics, because it's a waste of time.
All we can really do is speculate until the next chronicles comes out, Mabye they gave her a pat on the back and a metal Mabye they locked her up for like a day and reviewed what she did before letting her out.
There’s no way to know how they felt about it or reacted to it until we get more info. This is really something they should have sorted out with war crimes or something the lazy sods.
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What is it you count as a direct blizzard person? If chronicles counts then that tells us the lichking’s power is depended on how much souls/undead he has bound and that the metric ton of souls in froustmourn were freed and that many of the stronger undead were able to break free.
If it’s only like a blue post or tweet then I have no idea if any one has posted any thing about it so I’d leave you to your head canon.
None of either. I don't think either is a mary sue is overpowered or without fault... sorry but that is a stupid poll.
Why is stuff like this which does nothing but to shit on characters without any base not banned/closed.
Seriously. No one runs around and calls Khadgar a mary sue or wrathion... it is always the female chars who get some weird hate for no real reason
Gorak Tul has been confirmed to be dead by the devs.
Daelin absolutely did not caused a massive galleon to fly by himself.
Khadgar is empowered by Atiesh and he is empowered by Karazhan. Medivh isn't just a normal human and has absolutely had aid from much more powerful entities like Sargeras.
She left the Kirin Tor because they wouldn't let her ruthlessly murder Horde as much as she wanted.
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She walked around the city during the questline literally killing blood elf npcs that were running in fear. Also, it eventually ended because the Council stepped in and told her to knock it the fuck off.
Neither
Thrall, and Rhonin are the only Mary Sues to appear in WoW.