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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    • Thrall chose to leave Durnholde after escalating abuse by Blackmoore, working alongside Taretha to successfully engineer his escape.
    • Thrall chose not to remain among the Warsong Clan after finding Grom initially, instead choosing to seek out any survivors among his own Frostwolf clan.
    • He chose to embrace his legacy as a clan chieftain, as well as embracing the old ways of the Orcs and becoming the first new Shaman since the rise of Gul'dan.
    • He challenged Orgrim Doomhammer to a form of Mak'gora after Orgrim insulted both Grom and Thrall as a test, disarming and defeating the current Warchief.
    • He successfully used his intelligence and tactics to enact a plan of rousing his Orcish peers from torpor and leading them in serial revolts in the internment camps.
    • He led a decisive attack on the last remaining interment facility of Durnholde Keep, finally killing his old nemesis Blackmoore and avenging the death of Taretha Foxton.
    • He showed Tirion Fordring that the Orcs were not two-dimensional murderous creatures, further expanding Eitrigg's own example to the Human.
    • His decisive actions on first arriving to Kalimdor secured him the aid of the Darkspear Trolls, followed by the Tauren led by Cairne.
    • The Elements did not direct Thrall to step down as Warchief, rather he decided that the entirety of Azeroth was more important than just one nation. During the Cataclysm the Elements were too fearful and conflicted to really command much of anything.
    • No one knew how to contend with Deathwing, including the other Aspects, until Nozdormu and Kalecgos struck upon an audacious plan.
    • Thrall did not "abandon" the Doomhammer, it stopped working for him in the same it did Blackhand before, and he knew it was time to pass it on as it had been passed to him.
    • Thrall was not exiled to Outland, but instead had long abdicated the seat of Warchief and retired from heroism within the Horde. Given his many losses and scars both physical and emotional this isn't really outside the pale of what could be expected.

    Cherry-picking facts doesn't really make for a great argument either way do it.
    Almost your entire list is feats Thrall pulled off in his first book and never seen again in-game.

    Not really a fair comparison to someone stating Thrall's feats over many years in-game and over many different expansions.

  2. #22
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    Almost your entire list is feats Thrall pulled off in his first book and never seen again in-game.

    Not really a fair comparison to someone stating Thrall's feats over many years in-game and over many different expansions.
    The first 6 are from "Lord of the Clans," which as a book entirely about Thrall and his formative years would make a lot of sense in terms of establishing what kind of person he is. Then you have "Blood and Honor," WC3 itself, followed by Cata, Legion, and then BfA.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    His in-game characterization and other game media is so contradicting to the rambling introvert we see in Warcraft III. When we go to Karazhan, he seems like a charismatic party host, bolstering parties teeming with human and blood elf women, fine dining and drinking, there's entertainment, and overall, he seems like the type of guy that is highly sociable. Who we got in Warcraft III cinematics is the clear opposite of what one would want and expect a guardian whose role is intended to guide and protect humanity to act like. Medivh's role isn't different than Gandalf's, yet he acts more like Saruman than the former. Just grossly incompetent or negligent at his job.
    Super weird comparison. Guy who was resurrected by his mother (nearly killing herself) sets off to prevent the destruction of his whole world. Acts differently when compared to his shade / literal memory / ghost. In his magically attuned home, designed and made to be a fun for in-game raid, but actually isn't canon.

    What is canon is no one resides in it except for a part of Medivhs' spirit. He rarely let people inside. Chances are. All of the shit we see from the raid are demons or people brought in by Demons as Demons infiltrated Karazhan.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatowizard View Post
    Super weird comparison. Guy who was resurrected by his mother (nearly killing herself) sets off to prevent the destruction of his whole world. Acts differently when compared to his shade / literal memory / ghost. In his magically attuned home, designed and made to be a fun for in-game raid, but actually isn't canon.

    What is canon is no one resides in it except for a part of Medivhs' spirit. He rarely let people inside. Chances are. All of the shit we see from the raid are demons or people brought in by Demons as Demons infiltrated Karazhan.
    Oh. Well shit, is anything in-game even canon? That's all I have to go by, that and WoWpedia which isn't very detailed as far as character personalities. I give up trying to discuss WoW lore, between the games, books, "not canon" comic books, and Chronicles later stated to be from a specific stand point and not the definitive account of events, it's just too much of an unorganized clusterfuck to keep track of.

    I am officially departing the Lore forums! Screw you guys, I'm going home.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    His in-game characterization and other game media is so contradicting to the rambling introvert we see in Warcraft III. When we go to Karazhan, he seems like a charismatic party host, bolstering parties teeming with human and blood elf women, fine dining and drinking, there's entertainment, and overall, he seems like the type of guy that is highly sociable. Who we got in Warcraft III cinematics is the clear opposite of what one would want and expect a guardian whose role is intended to guide and protect humanity to act like. Medivh's role isn't different than Gandalf's, yet he acts more like Saruman than the former. Just grossly incompetent or negligent at his job.
    I honestly got a Gatsby-vibe from Medivh's parties. Yes, they were lavish and well attended and he wanted them to be popular, but he himself barely attended them. But yeah, in replaying WC3 it really got me how poor the guy was at his job and how much of the story is the direct result of him failing to communicate. Especially since he's still treated as this wise mentor man despite the sum of his contribution being to tell people to go to Kalimdor to team up, despite the only reason going to Kalimdor being necessary is because he didn't tell anyone about the Lich King or hell, flew into Dalaran and destroyed his own book, thus preventing Archimonde and the Legion from being summoned.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    Honestly the main reason for Thrall's fall is that people just like this complained he was doing too much and stealing everyone's glory, being the Green Jesus. People should know by now that Blizzard tends to overshoot too far the other way, when they do accept feedback.
    While that's true, I prefer today's sadorc Thrall to the Thrall Sue of the Cata days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

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