if you have to call one of these characters, a mary sue, which one would it be??

[Piamonte]

If you really have to, not saying you do, but if you have to call one of them mary sue, which one would it be??

[Kyphael]

Neither, Jaina was BfA's best written character and Sylvanas is now officially a villain.

[Piamonte]

Neither, Jaina was BfA's best written character and Sylvanas is now officially a villain.

thats what i mean by "if you have to"

[Kyphael]

thats what i mean by "if you have to"

I wouldn't since to me neither of them are.

[Skildar]

but they are not. you could very well ask :
what if you had to call one of those vegetable a banana?

it just doesn't work

[Highelf]

Sylvanas. Every cut scene she's given an exact power, that no one knew she had, to get out of the threat she was facing and doesn't need anything or anyone else.

[Varodoc]

A Mary Sue is a fictional character who is so competent or perfect that this appears absurd even in the context of the fiction. Mary Sues are often an author's self-insertion or wish fulfillment.[1] They may excel at tasks that shouldn't be possible for them,[2] or they may upstage the protagonist of a fictional setting, such as by saving them. They may disregard previously established aspects of the fiction such as characterization and natural laws.

Jaina is not competent or perfect, she has messed up several times in her life. She betrayed her father and her people, under her reign Theramore was destroyed, she thwarted Varian's plan to bring Quel'thalas back into the fold, for years she was shattered due to her trauma. She is somewhat competent.... but again, much like the other Alliance leaders, she will be dumbed down if it benefits the plot (she, Alleria, Anduin, and Greymane were dumbed down repeatedly in the Battle of Lordaeron). She doesn't excel at tasks that shouldn't be possible for her. Her most impressive feat in the last 5 or so years was raising a ship from the abyss and breaching a fraction of the wall of a ruined city. She isn't even the most powerful mage on Azeroth (Azshara would beat her with low difficulty). She doesn't upstage the protagonist of the story (You) either. I don't actually believe she ever saved the PC, I can't really remember, but that alone wouldn't make her a Mary Sue anyway. Alleria saved Turalyon and the PC in Legion and she isn't a Mary Sue either. On the last point, even if she did disregard continuity, that's not an issue related to Jaina, this is an issue related to Blizzard, since they already said that they don't want continuity to tie their hands.

So no, Jaina is not a Mary Sue.

[Uko]

The world bends to slyvanas giving her any power she needs when she needs it if that isn't a mary sue I'm not sure what is.

[Hubbl3]

The world bends to slyvanas giving her any power she needs when she needs it if that isn't a mary sue I'm not sure what is.

Gaining power is not a defining trait of Mary Sues.

Neither Jaina nor Sylvi are Mary Sues.

[Aucald]

Neither character is a Mary Sue. Although if I were to estimate which of the characters were thematically or technically closer to the mark of the Mary Sue type character I would say that Sylvanas would win.

[DemonHunter18]

neither one of them are a true definition of a Mary Sue but if I have to call one then Sylvanas.

[Thetruth1400]

Sylvanas is now officially a villain.

She's pretty much always been a villain, the poor writing and "No no, she's totally just misunderstood" comments from Blizzard, have just made everyone ignore it until they took her to cartoonish levels of villainy.

She's definitely a Mary Sue though, being able to do no wrong ( the writing and interviews insisting she has a reason for it) and basically having both infinite power as well as get out of death free card after card. She's died three times already; once as a Blood Elf and twice as the Banshee Queen: once to suicide off ICC and to Godfrey who shot her in the head. She also, conveniently, has the exact amount of Val'kyr left for one more death and resurrection and that's before we even go to Shadowlands where the trailer made it look like she's going to have even more come Shadowlands as there were 4 flying around her at the end of the features cinematic.

[prwraith]

Jaina has the most wildly fluctuating attitude, style, power levels etc. Magically always just powerful enough to pull it off, right up until bam floating battleship with magic cannons no effort included.

[Luxeley]

Neither of them can be considered a Mary Sue by a normal person who knows and understands WOW lore.

[Kyphael]

She's pretty much always been a villain, the poor writing and "No no, she's totally just misunderstood" comments from Blizzard, have just made everyone ignore it until they took her to cartoonish levels of villainy.

She's definitely a Mary Sue though, being able to do no wrong ( the writing and interviews insisting she has a reason for it) and basically having both infinite power as well as get out of death free card after card. She's died three times already; once as a Blood Elf and twice as the Banshee Queen: once to suicide off ICC and to Godfrey who shot her in the head. She also, conveniently, has the exact amount of Val'kyr left for one more death and resurrection and that's before we even go to Shadowlands where the trailer made it look like she's going to have even more come Shadowlands as there were 4 flying around her at the end of the features cinematic.

Well, I guess power-wise, she's definitely more of one than Jaina, but she's definitely always been a villain in my eyes, since Cataclysm and her deviousness.

[sam86]

So no, Jaina is not a Mary Sue.

Jaina got away with everything she did, she literally did a purge and nothing from horde, heck belfs welcome her with open arms, and she is the 3rd worst enemy to them after Arthas and Garithos in their history
If that part alone doesn't make her mary sue, nothing will
But of course Sylvanas is miles ahead of Jaina, or even Mary Sue herself, at this rate we will ask if Mary Sue is Sylvanas enough or not

[Mehrunes]

Sylvanas actually has an explanation behind her power boost (on top of being plenty strong already since her resurrection). Jaina went from "my full power can't do shit against a random Blood Elven Archmage" to "I'm a walking deus ex machina for the Alliance" in the scope of four in-lore years with no explanation given (and no, she didn't get anything from Lei Shen). Jaina would be closer.

[Seranthor]

If you really have to, not saying you do, but if you have to call one of them mary sue, which one would it be??

The correct answer is neither... because both have obvious flaws that even Helen Keller can see.

[Grazrug]

Sylvanas isn't even using her own power. Meanwhile Jaina is the only official final raid boss to survive her own fight unharmed. It is obvious that the ice-witch is the real Mary Sue here. I will gladly aid Talanji in hunting her down.

[Amaterasu65]

Neither. Bad thread.