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  1. #461
    I have an idea.... let they make loot chest next to entrance available from beginning...
    You HAVE MYTHIC 0 WITHOUT TIMER. It's no other options to rate our run except timer.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    M+ is just not built for people like you that want no timers on them, they're not made to be like that and should never be made like that because of the loot on offer at the higher levels of keys. The efficiency required is the only reason why they're nearly on par with Mythic raid level loot.
    Have you considered the possibility that a non-timed Mythic+ could just award weaker gear?

    It would be like saying LFR/Normal/Heroic raiding has no place in the game because raiding offers the best gear in the game and is supposed to be about leet gameplay and player coordination that those difficulties don't require.

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    then... dont do it?
    m+ was created as alternate path of gearing to raids, if you like challenging content without timer raids are still there...
    Easier said than done, considering I have got benched In a few guilds now because I refuse to run M+ for the chest. I have stopped playing altogether now because of it and corruption gear (but that’s a topic for another day).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragi View Post
    I have an idea.... let they make loot chest next to entrance available from beginning...
    You HAVE MYTHIC 0 WITHOUT TIMER. It's no other options to rate our run except timer.
    But we want actual hard content, not content that is stupid easy but made “difficult” because if you don’t do it quick, well, L2P.

  4. #464
    Ask for another, similar system instead of getting rid of the core component of a popular feature that doesn't cater to you.

    Scaling difficulties with rewards, with no timer? Great idea! It's not M+ though.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    I might actually do them if they were like this. I hated challenge modes from the moment they introduced them because I do not enjoy playing against the timer.
    I agree, that is why I did not take part in them either.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    For someone that likes to try and sound clever in their replies, you really don't have a grasp of what you're talking about. The timer IS the scary thing and it has nothing to do with skill.

    For the majority of players, it boils down to human psychology. Even if you all agree to ignore the timer, there's still that little voice in peoples heads that dislikes being told they've failed at something, even if they weren't aiming for it in the first place. Sure, there are some people that don't have that, but most people do. So seeing the timer run out still feels like a failure, even if you weren't aiming to clear it in the first place. It's an additional little stress that really doesn't need to be there.

    The whole thing could easily be solved by adding a checkbox to the key when you put it in the pedestal. "Do you want to do a timed run?" If you check yes, you get the timer, the chance of bonus loot and key upgrades. If you check no, you get the difficulty, but without the timer and only the chance of one chest (which is what you get if you fail the timer anyway).

    Honestly, from a development point of view, it wouldn't be that hard, all the mechanics exist to do it and it would provide more challenging, but enjoyable content for a lot of players.
    I can 100% tell you I don't run Mythic + dungeons for this exact reason.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Out of the 10's I've ran so far (about 8) only one or two had that one person who felt the need to pull for me (tank) and make it go faster than it should.
    Ugh. So many bad memories. I've had terrible luck in that department. I've done so many keys when the healer is the puller. They'll put a shit ton of mobs, then leave me to fight them while they're way up ahead bringing the next pull. Either I die before they get back to multiple packs being pulled with no healer, or the healer gets killed by the mobs they've pulled right as they get them back to the group so now we have even more mess with no healer.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  8. #468
    Just write an addon that obfuscates the timer, then create a safe space ingame community to bring everyone that gets spooked by a timer and run keys together no pressure.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by f4ncybear View Post
    Just write an addon that obfuscates the timer, then create a safe space ingame community to bring everyone that gets spooked by a timer and run keys together no pressure.
    Not really a "safe space" when you still actively get punished for not completing the timer (key gets downgraded)

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    if your group cannot complete a key in time, the content is too difficult for you and/or your group is undergeared. If the timer didn't exists yet you could still finish a key in a reasonable amount of time, then your group's issue is likely execution and not the difficulty/timer.
    While I generally can see this, how true is it?

    The only thing that I can see that would be timer related is enraged timer. How much more difficult is the next compared to the current level? What is the difficult curve?

    I have not done any M+ so I have zero experience on this. But using my examples as a Disc Priest. Sure it takes me longer to solo some elites but it can be done.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    But we want actual hard content, not content that is stupid easy but made “difficult” because if you don’t do it quick, well, L2P.
    But if it is "stupid easy" why can't you do it in time?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But if it is "stupid easy" why can't you do it in time?
    Never said I can’t?

  13. #473
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    New meta: 2 Tanks, 3 Healers. DPS go away, do something else.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I don't mind the timer. M+ has its own issues, stemming almost entirely from the people who participate in them. Thing is though, if they can make challenging raid content that isn't time based, there's little reason they can't do the same for dungeons.
    Raid content is absolutely time-based. What do you think enrage timers (whenever soft or hard) are? Or fights that ramp up the mechanics/raid damage the longer you're in them? Healer mana? Raid fights are all about killing the boss as fast as possible.

    Again, I don't have that much of a problem with keys without a timer- but that means no weekly chest for you. Step down in difficulty, step down in reward.

  15. #475
    Stood in the Fire Penegal's Avatar
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    Just add a death cap instead of a timer for those that aren’t in a rush but say it’s easy. Same thread will be made because you’re not allowed to die your way to victory.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Raid content is absolutely time-based. What do you think enrage timers (whenever soft or hard) are? Or fights that ramp up the mechanics/raid damage the longer you're in them? Healer mana? Raid fights are all about killing the boss as fast as possible.

    Again, I don't have that much of a problem with keys without a timer- but that means no weekly chest for you. Step down in difficulty, step down in reward.
    That's somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison. Your movement through a raid is very much a stop / go procedure, the pace requirements simply aren't there aside from the boss fight itself.

    Hell, there have been boss fights where you wanted to let up on dps to make sure the next phase doesn't happen too early. You won't ever see that in M+

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Never said I can’t?
    And yet you said it is difficult to do because of a timer. It can't be difficult if it is stupid easy.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Raid content is absolutely time-based. What do you think enrage timers (whenever soft or hard) are? Or fights that ramp up the mechanics/raid damage the longer you're in them? Healer mana? Raid fights are all about killing the boss as fast as possible.
    Everything you said about raids applies to a non-timed dungeon. Some bosses have enrages, even when they don't you still generally want to kill them as quickly as possible since the healer's mana will run out eventually, so on.

    You're comparing individual raid fights (most of which don't last more than 5 minutes or so, almost none last more than 10 minutes) to entire dungeons (most of which have timers of 30 to 40min). Raid encounters are definitely time-influenced. Raid instances are not. And that's what some people are asking for: challenging dungeon instances that aren't time-based. (Some) bosses would still be time-influenced, that's not what people don't like about Mythic+.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    That's somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison. Your movement through a raid is very much a stop / go procedure, the pace requirements simply aren't there aside from the boss fight itself.

    Hell, there have been boss fights where you wanted to let up on dps to make sure the next phase doesn't happen too early. You won't ever see that in M+
    Then you're applying double standards. During a raid fight, the pacing is more breathneck than any dungeon, you can't even stop to give the healer time to drink or top off everyone. Raid fights are shorter than dungeons, to be sure, but are no less time-based at all.

    If anything dungeons tend to be more lenient about the time- you can recover from wipes and still beat the timer. Wiping in a raid means starting over. You can fail the timer and get loot as compensation for the longer encounter time, fail an enrage timer and you're usually quite dead.

    The rules and details ARE different, you're right, but the basic principle the same- you need to kill things fast to win, and the timer is part of the challenge. Whenever it's Mythic N'zoth's 12 minute enrage or Freehold's 33 minute one.

    If people want a pause option in M+ so someone can take a leak or answer the door/phone, then I'm all for it honestly. It exists in competitive multiplayer games and barring technical issues, I see no reason not to implement it in M+ as well. But removing the timer entirely should mean degraded rewards, they are part and parcel of the design and challenge of the content.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    There already is M+ without a timer, its called Mythic 0.
    No, that's not it.

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