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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    You dont need to cough out anything to raid, you just need to not be shit.

    World First Race has nothing to do with the raiding scene.

    The top 100-200 guild will still kill the end boss 3-4 weeks after without coughing out anything close to "millions".

    You are all just insanely low skilled players that found the latest scapegoat to blame for your lack of progression as usual with mmo-champion posters.
    I love your enthusiastic approach to people here, but I'm not even raiding. Everyone wants to win in something in wow. Region first, server first, guild top dps, "I just wanna be better than Jerry!". There is a competition on all levels, not just in WF. PvP with these items?

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It's the mainstream definition of pay to win.
    Citation?

    More likely, it's the definition of people who want to use "Tokens are p2w" as a strawman, because they're incapable of winning an actual "tokens are bad" argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The significance doesn't matter if the question simply is "can you do it?". To that question the answer is: Yes you can.
    If it's an insignificant issue, then why argue about it? I'll tell you why. Because these people can't come up with an argument to demonstrate that tokens are bad, so instead they'll strawman.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Citation?

    More likely, it's the definition of people who want to use "Tokens are p2w" as a strawman, because they're incapable of winning an actual "tokens are bad" argument.



    If it's an insignificant issue, then why argue about it? I'll tell you why. Because these people can't come up with an argument to demonstrate that tokens are bad, so instead they'll strawman.
    The common understanding of p2w in other MMOs etc. is gaining an impactful advantage based on real life money.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win


    To me it's an insignificant issue. I don't care. And I'm not arguing for anything, I was just answering the question "can you in WoW pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage?" and the answer is simply: Yes, you can.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    If it's an insignificant issue, then why argue about it? I'll tell you why. Because these people can't come up with an argument to demonstrate that tokens are bad, so instead they'll strawman.
    Talk about a strawman lmao.. who said tokens are bad? Do you normally make up counter arguments to points no one has made? Seems odd
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Talk about a strawman lmao.. who said tokens are bad? Do you normally make up counter arguments to points no one has made? Seems odd
    I don't get it either. I was just answering a simple "yes or no" question and suddenly this guy (Raelbo) says I'm arguing that tokens are bad.. what?

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    I love your enthusiastic approach to people here, but I'm not even raiding. Everyone wants to win in something in wow. Region first, server first, guild top dps, "I just wanna be better than Jerry!". There is a competition on all levels, not just in WF. PvP with these items?
    PvP and high end is the right argument, but only for a month or two. It's just plain vanity for the rest of the game. Since corruptions are soft-capped, you'll hit a good one eventually and call it a day. And until then you'll rarely find a situation where it makes a relevant difference, other than for your e-peen.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I don't get it either. I was just answering a simple "yes or no" question and suddenly this guy (Raelbo) says I'm arguing that tokens are bad.. what?
    For clarity, I dont think tokens are bad. I think theyve done a lot of good for the game, namely exterminating gold sellers l. But I agree, I dont know what the fuck Raelbo is talking about either..
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The common understanding of p2w in other MMOs etc. is gaining an impactful advantage based on real life money.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win
    Ok, so I just followed your link:

    "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

    Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    To me it's an insignificant issue. I don't care. And I'm not arguing for anything, I was just answering the question "can you in WoW pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage?" and the answer is simply: Yes, you can.
    And does that make tokens p2w? No, no it doesn't.

    Why? Because it doesn't make the game unbalanced for those who don't pay.

    As I keep saying, p2w isn't about simply being able to buy something for $$. It's about needing to do so in order to have a reasonable prospect of keeping up.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by GringoD View Post
    PvP and high end is the right argument, but only for a month or two. It's just plain vanity for the rest of the game. Since corruptions are soft-capped, you'll hit a good one eventually and call it a day. And until then you'll rarely find a situation where it makes a relevant difference, other than for your e-peen.
    My main argument was that we can all act that this does not affect us until it suddenly does. Shrugging off the high ends problems won't help anybody down the road probably.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Xauro View Post
    When i say WIN. I mean WIN DPS meters. Haveing good dps helps out alot. Both in raids and arena. And NO BOE have never been this strong. When could a BOE do 30-50% of your total damage almost by itself? Its not normal anyway .

    It can’t, I don’t know if you’re crazy misinformed or intentionally misleading and derailing the thread. Corruption doesn’t deal 30-50% of people’s damages hell I barer see it over 15 when you look at overall dps from a key or something else that takes longer than 5 seconds

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Talk about a strawman lmao.. who said tokens are bad? Do you normally make up counter arguments to points no one has made? Seems odd
    In every single discussion about whether tokens make the game p2w (including this one) is the direct implication that they if they do, then it's proof that they are bad. Why else does anyone even care if they're p2w?

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Ok, so I just followed your link:

    "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

    Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.



    And does that make tokens p2w? No, no it doesn't.

    Why? Because it doesn't make the game unbalanced for those who don't pay.

    As I keep saying, p2w isn't about simply being able to buy something for $$. It's about needing to do so in order to have a reasonable prospect of keeping up.
    Question: "Can you pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage in WoW?"

    My answer: "Yes."

    Done.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Ok, so I just followed your link:

    "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

    Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.



    And does that make tokens p2w? No, no it doesn't.

    Why? Because it doesn't make the game unbalanced for those who don't pay.

    As I keep saying, p2w isn't about simply being able to buy something for $$. It's about needing to do so in order to have a reasonable prospect of keeping up.
    Technically it IS p2w. The advantage simply comes at a so high cost and for a so few time that makes it simply not worthwhile for the majority of people.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Still, it does not matter how expensive or how powerful they are. They are still BIS for every class and they can be bought with real money. Facts.
    Oh no someone can spend 200 dollars for one piece of gear, let’s all point and laugh?

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I don't get it either. I was just answering a simple "yes or no" question and suddenly this guy (Raelbo) says I'm arguing that tokens are bad.. what?
    Actually I did not say that.

    You claimed that it was a "mainstream definition". As in, used by others. Others, who I pointed out use it as a proxy for a "tokens are bad" argument. I never said you were trying to make that argument, rather that it was a poor definition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Question: "Can you pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage in WoW?"

    My answer: "Yes."

    Done.
    The question is "Is it p2w?"

    So you've strawmanned.

    Well done!

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Because now Blizzard manipulates both ends of the market. Blizzard is the one who make these crazy OP lucrative items to drop as BoE and they are the ones who sell gold to players to be able buy it.
    When buying gold was not in Blizz's direct hands, it was slightly different.

    With this tactics, not only mounts are seasonal on the shop (shit expansion -> we need money -> put a mount on the shop for whales/collectors), but we can end up with gear being second-hand (word?) shop items. (shit expansion -> we need money -> crazy OP boes rain from the sky for the die hard raiders, we'll say it was an ooopsie)
    given that there was barely any movement in token price since 8.3, which means there was barely any movement in supply and demand, claim that people actualy spend their real money to buy tokens to get those items rather than gold they already have ingame is baseless and most likely not true...
    not to mention its not like those BOE items are behind some wall, ANYONE can go to raid to farm the trash and get the BOE items, sure you have to be lucky to get the corruption you want, but thats a matter of RNG not p2w...

    as for shop mounts would you prefer if subscription price was increased for all players rather than SOME players who want to buy the mounts?

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Technically it IS p2w. The advantage simply comes at a so high cost and for a so few time that makes it simply not worthwhile for the majority of people.
    Technically, according to that definition it is NOT p2w. Because it fails to meet the criterion of making the making game unbalanced for people who don't spend $$.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.
    What was your definition btw?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Because it fails to meet the criterion of making the making game unbalanced for people who don't spend $$.
    I guess this depend on the situation. If you lose your raid spot because someone else bought corruption BOEs then it does make the game unbalance in that scenario.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The question is "Is it p2w?"

    So you've strawmanned.

    Well done!
    Thats the definition of p2w lmfao. Are you high and incapable of understanding these concepts, or something? Youre making yourself look real fucking stupid..
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The question is "Is it p2w?"

    So you've strawmanned.

    Well done!
    In some scenarios it is pay to win. PvP for example. Infinite Stars is broken in pvp.

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