"The MMO market is dying" is an awful excuse/argument

[The Butt Witch]

Yeah, instead of "making wow a good gaem" they are just slowly winding it down because that makes the most sense for the money hungry slaves of activision.

Making WoW a good game costs money and, more importantly, TALENT which the current Blizzard team is sorely lacking. Like I said, they don't know how to keep the player in the game without world quests and AP grinds. This is the extent of their creational capabilities.

So they just do what they can, and milk the remaining players while they can.

[Beet]

The MMO market never had a TON of players in the West. WoW had a ton of players. Big difference. When WoW lost players they didn't flock to other MMOs. Well some did to try them out, but they never stayed. WoW was a juggernaut and an enigma. They could turn it around again but it would take a lot. It honestly saddens me that they're not working on a WoW 2 by now. Because something like that will take 5 years to put together so if they aren't working on it now, then it's not even worth considering. I think this is a big failure on Blizzards part. If they could give us WoW 2 with a new engine and perhaps fast forward the timeline then that could have been something special. Because right now the game is stale. I think that's why classic did so well too, while it's old content it's something totally different than what we have with WoW right now. And as much as some people hate to admit, the RPG elements that a lot of people hated are also beloved by a lot of people. Things like training spells and abilities. Giving you a reason to go to town and explore as you level up. Blizzard would do well to reintroduce certain things back into regular WoW again.

[Laqweeta]

I agree.

I agree for the fact that I can log a WotLK 3.3.5 private server and enjoy it 10x more than retail 8.3.

[Sharby]

FFXIV is not a good example of the mmo market being alive and well it’s grow is pathetically small compared to say wow’s lunch or even tbc when mmos were at there peak.

Lol its okay not to like FF14 but don't dishonestly downplay its current success. The game is doing very well and the communication between dev and user is very healthy and abundant.

The biggest issue the game has is the attitude from both community and devs in regards to hardcore players but it is an issue that only affects an inconsequential amount of players, just like it does in WoW.

[Ghostile]

Making WoW a good game costs money and, more importantly, TALENT which the current Blizzard team is sorely lacking. Like I said, they don't know how to keep the player in the game without world quests and AP grinds. This is the extent of their creational capabilities.

So they just do what they can, and milk the remaining players while they can.

Haha, yeah, because it's impossible for people to actually like the current model and they are merely blind sheeps, eh.

[Willias]

MMO's still seem to be thriving. Other than WoW I still see FFXIV, ESO, GW2 and even SWTOR doing fine even if they are nowhere near close to the 12 million that WoW once had.

Be careful about calling GW2 and SWTOR successful. SWTOR went without major content updates for about a year, and GW2 is struggling financially, enough so that Arenanet took some major hits last year in terms of its workforce. Looks like the Free to Play model for MMOs brings significant success initially, but ruins you as time goes on.

[Ghostile]

The biggest issue the game has is the attitude from both community and devs in regards to hardcore players but it is an issue that only affects an inconsequential amount of players, just like it does in WoW.

Don't have to dev pvp if the pvp is in too shit state to have people playing it

[The Butt Witch]

Haha, yeah, because it's impossible for people to actually like the current model and they are merely blind sheeps, eh.

Oh, I'm sure some do.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Or in the case of WoW, many men's trash is a few men's treasure.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Lol its okay not to like FF14 but don't dishonestly downplay its current success. The game is doing very well and the communication between dev and user is very healthy and abundant.

The biggest issue the game has is the attitude from both community and devs in regards to hardcore players but it is an issue that only affects an inconsequential amount of players, just like it does in WoW.

I think you missed the point. It doesn’t matter how good Final fantasy is the growth of it is no where near wow in either classic or tbc when the mmo market was at its peak. The game doing well and having 1M subs doesn’t in any way show that the market where classic/tbc shot up way past that is doing well.

[Willias]

I really don’t think you can call it thriving when between all of those Games there are less paying players then wow at its peak not even counting all the other mmos out at the time. The market might not be dying but it’s clearly fallen to a way smaller status quo.

The genre still has more players than before World of Warcraft existed. I don't think we're going to see another MMORPG with 12 million subscribed players ever again, so long as microtransactions and loot boxes are in high demand.

[Sharby]

Don't have to dev pvp if the pvp is in too shit state to have people playing it

Arenas in that game are enjoyable but so babymode compared to WoW arenas.



The 'battlegrounds' are complete dogshit though its like if every BG was Ashran I have no idea who greenlit that shit.

I think you missed the point. It doesn’t matter how good Final fantasy is the growth of it is no where near wow in either classic or tbc when the mmo market was at its peak. The game doing well and having 1M subs doesn’t in any way show that the market where classic/tbc shot up way past that is doing well.

And I never commented on what you thought of the quality of the game, the point is that recently it has been growing to where its no longer a niche game for anime-nerds, but a respectable MMO in its own right.


Subscription based games won't ever reach the popularity of plug+play games i.e fortnite/League of legends because the pay barrier alienates many potential users.


That being said, the fact that FF14 was able to go from obscurity to being able to stand on its feet against WoW(not saying either is better, I love both) in the current gaming climate is impressive in itself and shows that regardless of how the MMO 'market' is doing, people will play games regardless of genre if it appeals to them. Discrediting it as 'pathetic' because its not going viral isn't very honest imo.

I'm not well educated in business by any means, but I'd imagine stable/steady growth is far better profit-wise than a sudden spike into rapid decline, especially in the long term. I honestly don't think MMO's are dying at all, but aren't nearly as susceptible to massive growth spikes as they were back in Wrath because the gaming industry has a lot more in it.

[Ghostile]

Arenas in that game are enjoyable but so babymode compared to WoW arenas.



The 'battlegrounds' are complete dogshit though its like if every BG was Ashran I have no idea who greenlit that shit.

The arenas could be more enjoyable if the game had ticrate of more than once a month

[Wheeler]

They are a business after all, and if they think a market is dying off, why would they continue spending money on development of a game for a dying market?

What? The market is ABSOLUTELY dead.

WoW IS essentially the MMO market in North America/Europe. FFXIV exists, but WoW still dominates it in the west.

A market is an "Area". A gathering of vendors. How many MMO distributors do you see popping up in 2020? ESPECIALLY Western MMO developers? The 2000's saw MMO after MMO launch, and all of them failed when going against WoW.

Yes - WoW is slowly but surely fading away in the US/Europe. Do you see competition rising up again? No.

As for the "they won't support it if it's dead" - They absolutely will. The few million people left playing this game after WoD, and now, after BFA - Aren't going anywhere. They'll play anything put in front of them as long as they can log into the same character they've been playing since the 00's. Expect more store items. Expect more sellable stuff driving token sales.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The genre still has more players than before World of Warcraft existed. I don't think we're going to see another MMORPG with 12 million subscribed players ever again, so long as microtransactions and loot boxes are in high demand.

True the market is better off then before wow but is undoable in a lull and likely will stay in one till something ground breaking comes out.

[Ghostile]

Oh, I'm sure some do.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Or in the case of WoW, many men's trash is a few men's treasure.

Oh yeah, I too remember those games that followed wows best design and gained millions of subs.

[MoanaLisa]

It may be an awful argument to say that the market for MMO's is shrinking but there's a significant body of evidence to suggest that it's true.

Blizzard is aware of this I'm sure.

WoW is an outlier in many ways. Right game at the exactly the right time, it did everything as well as or better than its initial competitors and had the marketing strength to take advantage of that. There's no other MMO in NA or Europe that's done so well or anything even close. Nonetheless the market for this specific kind of game has been saturated or shrinking for some time. You only need to look at the bodies of the many other games that tried to leverage their success on WoW and failed.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Discrediting it as 'pathetic' because its not going viral isn't very honest imo.

again you miss the point how you or i feel about the game doesn't matter the growth of it is pathetically low given the amount of time it has been out compared to the growth of wow at its luanch. the market just isn't as big as it was before and can't support what it used to.

you can say that its good that its broken out of its niche or that its good that it keeps growing but that doesn't change that the growth is abysmal compared to the height of the mmo market.

[Dhrizzle]

Yes, it's probably in a decline and is nowhere near 12 million subscribers like Wrath had, that was quite literally an almost impossible feat and achievement for WoW and should be commended.

But if you continuously tell Blizzard that the MMO market is dying and that's your reasoning for why WoW is in decline, you might as well be telling them to stop investing money in WoW. They are a business after all, and if they think a market is dying off, why would they continue spending money on development of a game for a dying market? If you care about the game at all, stop saying this.

If you think that WoW is in a decline because of some bad game design decisions, then you still believe the game can be turned around with some better game design decisions and not be in a decline anymore.

Which of these opinions do you think is more helpful for the game? Which person do you think cares more about the game, the one who thinks the MMO market is dying and WoW is in decline because of it and there's nothing that can be done to save it, or the person that thinks some better game design decisions can still turn the game around?

Pick your battles wisely.

I'm pretty sure that if Blizz did think the MMO market was dying it would be due to the performance of their and similar products, not the spitballing and rants of random forumites.

[Logwyn]

An MMO is an online game with large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, on the same server.[1][failed verification] MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world, although some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including personal computers, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices."

If we go by the above definition I would say that the MMO market is the dominating market and pretty much drowning out the rest of the video game market.

Fortnight, Overwatch, WOW, World of Tanks are all MMOs. So is CoD. Which all are grabbing a ton of players and I'd say growing still.

[Monster Hunter]

Yes, it's probably in a decline and is nowhere near 12 million subscribers like Wrath had, that was quite literally an almost impossible feat and achievement for WoW and should be commended.

But if you continuously tell Blizzard that the MMO market is dying and that's your reasoning for why WoW is in decline, you might as well be telling them to stop investing money in WoW. They are a business after all, and if they think a market is dying off, why would they continue spending money on development of a game for a dying market? If you care about the game at all, stop saying this.

If you think that WoW is in a decline because of some bad game design decisions, then you still believe the game can be turned around with some better game design decisions and not be in a decline anymore.

Which of these opinions do you think is more helpful for the game? Which person do you think cares more about the game, the one who thinks the MMO market is dying and WoW is in decline because of it and there's nothing that can be done to save it, or the person that thinks some better game design decisions can still turn the game around?

Pick your battles wisely.

problem is, not saying it, dosnt also make it not true, the market is in steady decline, us saying that isnt anything more than pointing out the obvious, and blizz don't read our comments as some revelation, they have marketing experts who know far more than us on the exact health of the market.

so saying it or not saying it, dosnt change the reality, and blizz know the market with or without us saying it.