Why cant we just have fun?

[Mehrunes]

Ah yes, those who attacked first the Explorators 's league expedition?

Except for the part where they didn't because by the time of Shaw's mission in Silithus Anduin didn't even have the idea to send the Explorer's League as well yet.

[Yuli]

Because she didn't really give that much of a damn about them to begin with and considered the entire war as a whole to be yet another example of Garrosh's idiocy.

That's interesting though, I didn't know that, do you have a quote of that?

[Dziubla]

Because you are in minority. Most people playing Alliance enjoy the blandness of Anduin.

Somehow, I doubt it. I've seen fuckton of people everywhere being angry when Varian died, and a lot them considered rerolling to horde, precisely because of Anduin and his...blandness, as you call it. If anything, most people probably just don't care one way or the other, but the ones who do care, definitely do NOT enjoy Anduin's blandness.

[Mehrunes]

Gilneas and Theramore were revenge for Camp Taurajo.

I'm afraid our little game ends here though, since Camp Taurajo was the first morally grey act the Alliance did in WoW.

Except for attacking the Horde in Vanilla in half a dozen zones, attacking the Forsaken fleet in Howling Fjord, declaring war on the Horde during an ongoing apocalypse over Varian's hate boner for the Orcs, throwing the peace process between WotLK and Cata under the bus with completely unreasonable behavior, invading the Barrens before Garrosh even looked in Ashsenvale's general direction, attacking Thrall while he was on world-saving Earthen Ring business and trying to wipe out Bilgewater refugees for daring to be witnesses to their aforementioned attack on Thrall. But yeah, do go on pretending that Alliance is morally flawless.

[Varodoc]

Somehow, I doubt it. I've seen fuckton of people everywhere being angry when Varian died, and a lot them considered rerolling to horde, precisely because of Anduin and his...blandness, as you call it. If anything, most people probably just don't care one way or the other, but the ones who do care, definitely do NOT enjoy Anduin's blandness.

At the same time I have also seen many Alliance players praising Anduin, especially after his badass moment in the BfA cinematic, saying things like "Anduin finally became Manduin".

[Mehrunes]

Ultimately the Alliance does not have the means to retaliate. In 8.1.5 we had enough strength to end the war in a matter of weeks, but since the Alliance army was somehow obliterated at Nazjatar (don't ask how the ARMY was destroyed, just smile and play along), in 8.2.5 the Alliance is supposedly in a fragile position. After the war the Alliance has suffered countless losses, we are no longer in the position of superiority we were back at the Siege of Orgrimmar, we can no longer afford to threaten the Horde with an ultimatum. So even if Anduin and co. wanted revenge, the Alliance simply cannot afford to wage another war.

The Alliance wasn't in a position to threaten the Horde even at SoO. People in such a position wouldn't pretend Sylvanas' conquest didn't even happen and throw in Azshara without even being asked on top of that. It's almost as if Alliance was badly losing the war on all fronts before the Darkspear Rebellion, with the rebellion giving them a way out.

[Dziubla]

At the same time I have also seen many Alliance players praising Anduin, especially after his badass moment in the BfA cinematic, saying things like "Anduin finally became Manduin".

Well, yes, he did grow up somewhat between Legion and BfA, but sadly, that didn't last, and he still rolled over backwards for the horde, and let them get away with everything they did, without any repercussions. After all, they were just following Sylvanas' orders, right? Right.

[Varodoc]

Well, yes, he did grow up somewhat between Legion and BfA, but sadly, that didn't last, and he still rolled over backwards for the horde, and let them get away with everything they did, without any repercussions. After all, they were just following Sylvanas' orders, right? Right.

Meh, ultimately this comes down to the Horde being playable, so it was predictable that the writers would find a way to stop Anduin from demanding more, like they did with Varian at the end of SoO. There really is no way around that.

If this were a RTS, they'd have a lot more freedom. After the Second War, the Alliance of Lordaeron didn't just sit on their asses, they launched an expedition to Draenor to annihilate the remnants of the Horde. But since this is a MMO with another playable faction, they can't write such storylines.

That's also why it's not wise to want Tyrande to push for vengeance, because I can assure you that that will end badly for her.

[Zuben]

Well, yes, he did grow up somewhat between Legion and BfA, but sadly, that didn't last, and he still rolled over backwards for the horde, and let them get away with everything they did, without any repercussions. After all, they were just following Sylvanas' orders, right? Right.

The Alliance would've at best achieved pyrrhic victory had Anduin continued the war after the duel at gates of Orgrimmar. He could've however demanded reparations, since the Horde did start the war and Baine's regime would likely feel honor-bound to recompense to a point. The end to the Fourth War was unsatisfying to pretty much everyone who care about the lore, which is by the book when it comes to faction conflict.

[Mehrunes]

The Alliance would've at best achieved pyrrhic victory had Anduin continued the war after the duel at gates of Orgrimmar. He could've however demanded reparations, since the Horde did start the war and Baine's regime would likely feel honor-bound to recompense to a point. The end to the Fourth War was unsatisfying to pretty much everyone who care about the lore, which is by the book when it comes to faction conflict.

The factions were already openly belligerent towards each other since the start of Legion. That was literally the reason Blizzard gave when describing Class Orders and why they and not the Horde/Alliance (as would be usual) were the ones to lead the fight against the Legion. And it continued all the way to BfA. The factions needed a ceasefire to even make the Gathering happen and the Gathering was a peaceful meeting of civilians on neutral ground. And it's not the Horde who struck there first. Which has also been the case with the previous faction war.

Which also loops back to your initial post in this thread on how Alliance is only pretending how they are goody two shoes because they do plenty of bad shit and simply don't own it. Because it's rarely the case of Alliance characters doing that in-story themelves like in your example of Vol'dun. Most of the time it's Blizzard doing it in an external manner. I don't know if this particular fuckup is caused by them just being sloppy or them wanting to have their cake and eat it too, but time and time again they write stories of Alliance starting shit with the Horde only to then brush it all under the carpet and pin all the hostilities on the Horde to preserve the idea of Alliance being pristine paragon of a faction.

[Fetus Rex]

It's because it would require a shift in narrative. Good things usually are paid with the most gruesome of atrocities and horrors. In WoW you can be 'good', act like a naive fool and you will still accomplish everything you want because the power of friendship and love conquers all. The superiority of moral high ground is a dogma here.

[Evilfish]

The problem with the Alliance is that the Allianceboiz don't rely on the story to give them what they want, but rather on incessant whining about the Horde, imagining the devs will give them what they demand.

Like I've been saying since 2006. The biggest problem the Alliance has are the players. If you don't believe me just look at this forum. Genocide. Hitler. Horde bias. None of these are something that you can or would want to discuss especially with these people.

[Dziubla]

The problem with the Alliance is that the Allianceboiz don't rely on the story to give them what they want, but rather on incessant whining about the Horde, imagining the devs will give them what they demand.

Like I've been saying since 2006. The biggest problem the Alliance has are the players. If you don't believe me just look at this forum. Genocide. Hitler. Horde bias. None of these are something that you can or would want to discuss especially with these people.

If you think Alliance players are bad, go back to any thread regarding the war mode buff for Alliance. Horde players are much, much, MUCH worse. Inifnitely worse. Hell, forget war mode, since that actually somewhat influences important aspects of the game, so ok, I can get the outrage (though despite the fact that I get it, it's also hypocritical as fuck, since horde had free 10% for eternity, with 0 Alliance on war mode, the moment Alliance got a buff - oceans) - look at the fucking bee. A fucking bee. Alliance got a mount that's not a horse, and it literally made the horde players cry not just rivers, but entire fucking oceans. Look at mythic progress. Alliance literally can't fill Hall of Fame, and any horde player you ask, they will always tell you how there's absolutely no problems there. Any solutions that you propose, they turn into 10 year old kids, and start crying how they don't want to play with "filthy Alliance". Those are grown up, adult people? Please.

[Evilfish]

If you think Alliance players are bad, go back to any thread regarding the war mode buff for Alliance. Horde players are much, much, MUCH worse. Inifnitely worse. Hell, forget war mode, since that actually somewhat influences important aspects of the game, so ok, I can get the outrage (though despite the fact that I get it, it's also hypocritical as fuck, since horde had free 10% for eternity, with 0 Alliance on war mode, the moment Alliance got a buff - oceans) - look at the fucking bee. A fucking bee. Alliance got a mount that's not a horse, and it literally made the horde players cry not just rivers, but entire fucking oceans. Look at mythic progress. Alliance literally can't fill Hall of Fame, and any horde player you ask, they will always tell you how there's absolutely no problems there. Any solutions that you propose, they turn into 10 year old kids, and start crying how they don't want to play with "filthy Alliance". Those are grown up, adult people? Please.

How dare those Hordes whine about the Alliance getting the outnumbered bonus on servers where they outnumber the Horde 2 to one at least (which is roleplay servers). Hordes can outnumber the Alliance 100 to 1 on any server and they will never see that buff. This is what I'm talking about. Anyway, warmode is a problem created by the Alliance who refuse to join in. You can't blame it on the Horde for doing what they were supposed to do - JOIN WARMODE.

Also very good that you brought up mythic progress. Another problem that is mostly created by the community and could be solved by the community. But that's the issue, isn't it. The "core" of the Alliance does not want to solve it's own issues, they want others to do it for them. That's why Alliance warmode is shit and so is their mythic progress. Blame it on whoever you want, the fault is with the Alliance players, those who cry and complain and refuse to do anything about their situation and those who cut and run when things get difficult.

[derpkitteh]

doesn't the alliance outlaw slavery in its lands?

the horde has slavery, the dark iron dwarves might do some shady shit in secret though.

the real reason is that story takes a backseat in wow. it's all gameplay, sadly. it'd be great though. also, if you want to live out the fantasy of being a slaver, you should play conan exiles. you get to beat and capture people to your heart's content, it's fun.

[Varodoc]

doesn't the alliance outlaw slavery in its lands?

the horde has slavery, the dark iron dwarves might do some shady shit in secret though.

the real reason is that story takes a backseat in wow. it's all gameplay, sadly. it'd be great though. also, if you want to live out the fantasy of being a slaver, you should play conan exiles. you get to beat and capture people to your heart's content, it's fun.

If I'm not mistaken only the dark irons who followed Ragnaros committed slavery. Those recruited into the Alliance are the good ones who don't do those shady things.

[derpkitteh]

If I'm not mistaken only the dark irons who followed Ragnaros committed slavery. Those recruited into the Alliance are the good ones who don't do those shady things.

oh no, the ones in the alliance do some shady shit still yet. maybe not slavery, but i wouldn't put it past them(though, personally, i don't see an issue with slavery if it's done as just another type of punishment for crime).

all dark irons tend towards a more shady personality. they were thieves and liars even back when they lived in society with the rest of the dwarves, before the war of three hammers. moira being an ironforge dwarf might impose some ironforge dwarf beliefs on them, but even she is a rather shady individual.

[Sharby]

The usual Horde suspects popping up in every Alliance thread proving once again they have a really weird fanaticism to their faction, if they ever lessen the barrier I can't wait to see the endless stream of complaining.

--


OT:


I would be okay with options being open to really stick it to the Horde as long as its not depicted as being representative of the Alliance as a whole and more a single entity's agenda. Similar to the loyalist quest-line. Like it or not, a core tenant of the faction is to be honorable and good, removing or blurring this ideal would make the faction suffer overall because it would be a poor attempt at trying to copy the Horde's style.


The same way people play Horde to be the bad guys I think the same right should be given to those who want to play a good faction. Its okay to be good lol.

[Varodoc]

oh no, the ones in the alliance do some shady shit still yet.

all dark irons tend towards a more shady personality. they were thieves and liars even back when they lived in society with the rest of the dwarves, before the war of three hammers. moira being an ironforge dwarf might impose some ironforge dwarf beliefs on them, but even she is a rather shady individual.

Aside from the unleashing some fire elementals on civilian targets (though I do not believe those elementals actually kill anyone, I'd have to replay the raid), they haven't really done anything shady so far. Even Moira is improving. In MoP she was the only one in the Council willing to set aside their differences and unite for the Alliance. In Legion she sacrifices a lot to help protect the world.

[Mehrunes]

If you think Alliance players are bad, go back to any thread regarding the war mode buff for Alliance. Horde players are much, much, MUCH worse. Inifnitely worse. Hell, forget war mode, since that actually somewhat influences important aspects of the game, so ok, I can get the outrage (though despite the fact that I get it, it's also hypocritical as fuck, since horde had free 10% for eternity, with 0 Alliance on war mode, the moment Alliance got a buff - oceans) - look at the fucking bee. A fucking bee. Alliance got a mount that's not a horse, and it literally made the horde players cry not just rivers, but entire fucking oceans. Look at mythic progress. Alliance literally can't fill Hall of Fame, and any horde player you ask, they will always tell you how there's absolutely no problems there. Any solutions that you propose, they turn into 10 year old kids, and start crying how they don't want to play with "filthy Alliance". Those are grown up, adult people? Please.

Except Horde had nothing of the sort. You're comparing apples to oranges here. Alliance got welfare gear just for being Alliance. Horde got a buff that was available to Alliance players that they were just unwilling to get. And that quite clearly showcases ho it was a "problem" caused by Alliance players to begin with. Overall the faction balance isn't nearly as bad as Alliance's participation in war mode made it look like. It's just less Alliance players are willing to engage in PvP. Even though at the start of expansion when people were trying it because it was new and much higher percentage of Alliance players had the mode turned on there were a lot of posts about how amazing it is to own dem Hordies by forming 40 man Alliance raids and ganking people (many of whom were still leveling at the time). Only when the dust settled and novelty of war mode wore off, leaving more Horde players in it did 40 mode raids ganking people become a travesty caused by Blizzard's bias. Because they were Horde raids ganking Alliance rather than the other way around.