Blizzard's obsession with balancing sucked the fun out of the classes.

[Nightstalker]

Can someone post a screenshot from Classic Server Raid comps to end this discussion?

[KaPe]

they should really never nerf.

if, for example, warlock is too strong, buff every other class to be as strong.

Terrible idea which can only result in people's healthbar being completely meaningless in the long run, both in PvP and PvE.

A healer is strong so you buff everyone else? Congratulation, mana is now pointless and everyone can fill healthbar to full in couple seconds, forcing the "good old" WotLK approach of tanks nearly getting globaled by the bosses. In PvP, you need to global the player or they'll just recover to full instantly.

As for dps, since you specifically mention warlock - every single caster should be able to cast everything on the move, with just a minor speed penalty. After all, we don't do nerfs and 100% of players use that particular talent, so it's only natural every other class could do the same. But wait, turns out that Spec A can actually unleash some nasty combo that pretty much oneshot everyone. They can only do it once per 3 minutes, but still, everyone else should have the same.

That's not even getting into the logistics of buffing 11 classes and 30+ specs instead of nerfing one.

[derpkitteh]

Terrible idea which can only result in people's healthbar being completely meaningless in the long run, both in PvP and PvE.

A healer is strong so you buff everyone else? Congratulation, mana is now pointless and everyone can fill healthbar to full in couple seconds, forcing the "good old" WotLK approach of tanks nearly getting globaled by the bosses. In PvP, you need to global the player or they'll just recover to full instantly.

As for dps, since you specifically mention warlock - every single caster should be able to cast everything on the move, with just a minor speed penalty. After all, we don't do nerfs and 100% of players use that particular talent, so it's only natural every other class could do the same. But wait, turns out that Spec A can actually unleash some nasty combo that pretty much oneshot everyone. They can only do it once per 3 minutes, but still, everyone else should have the same.

That's not even getting into the logistics of buffing 11 classes and 30+ specs instead of nerfing one.

everything you just described is almost exactly as it should be.

[KaPe]

everything you just described is exactly as it should be.

People getting constantly globaled and instantly dying in world content is "exactly as it should be"? Mobility being outdated concept is "exactly as it should be"? Healthbars too, I guess? I'd be enjoyable for a (very) short while, until it'd get completely unbearable.

[Barzotti]

I agree. Their focus on balancing the classes for the top 5 % makes the game quite unfun in the long run in my opinion.

Sometimes they nerf classes that are already weak at low or mid item level, which to many is just baffling (or buff specs that are already great at lower ilvl - like my frost mage outperforming the other specs got a buff recently. Thanks I guess :P). Also, the top 5 % will always always pick the thing that's 1 % better even so why even bother with that level of balancing precision?

Blizzard balances the game for the top 5% the same way Riot balances League of Legends around pro play, because those are the people who actually know how to play the game. Balance is meaningless at low-mid level.

I think they should do things a bit closer to how League and Dota are doing things. They found out, that balance is boring and that it limits design space. Make things unbalanced, make them wierd and maybe even OP, and then just "balance" things often enough to make sure, that somebody is not always on top. Make fire mage really good for a tier and then nerf it to be average the next. Give people their moment to shine and then move it on to the next class.

Imagine the outcry and the X posts "BLIZZ RUINED MY CLASS I QUIT", the whining every time something is nerfed (look at the recent pvp nerfs).
And you can do that in a MOBA because there are 140+ champions and you can learn champions quickly. The time commitment for one class or even one spec is way more important in WoW. The champ in LoL you're learning is ready to go, you new char in WoW isn't.

[derpkitteh]

People getting constantly globaled and instantly dying in world content is "exactly as it should be"? Mobility being outdated concept is "exactly as it should be"? Healthbars too, I guess? I'd be enjoyable for a (very) short while, until it'd get completely unbearable.

people getting globaled is fine i think. if you're skilled enough, there's always a way out of it. cloak, iceblock, bubble, fears, etc.

the game's funner when the pace is faster, just look at legion and wotlk. the pace in wotlk towards the end was insane, everything went by quickly. then in legion, same thing.

[rhorle]

It’s because Blizzard are turning WoW more and more into an action rpg where instanced content like raids and M+ are 95% of the game.

Have you played the game at all recently? There is more stuff to do then ever before outside of raids and Mythic+. Raids and Mythic+ are the ultimate end game activities but there is so much more to do outside of those for players if then want then previous expansion (except maybe legion because of order hall grinds).

[Eurhetemec]

people getting globaled is fine i think. if you're skilled enough, there's always a way out of it. cloak, iceblock, bubble, fears, etc.

That's simply not true for most classes and specs in the game. Getting killed in less than 1.5-3 seconds by a single attacker is a ludicrous situation that leads to terrible gameplay.

[rhorle]

Blizzard balances the game for the top 5% the same way Riot balances League of Legends around pro play, because those are the people who actually know how to play the game. Balance is meaningless at low-mid level.

I would say balance is of even greater importance at low to mid level. Because the players and groups are looking for any advantage to boost progress. And sometimes switching specs from "your favorite" to "imbalanced" can lead to a large increase in raid performance. Which is of greater importance when playing with less skilled players because the better players always need to carry the less skilled.

Where as in the top 5% most players are of the same skill level. So while balance is still important for those players it isn't as important because of the inherent skill of the players. Class stacking and strategies of course are highly dependent on balance.

[Niwes]

Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.

no its not. at least the question not ends with balancing. its just a part of. easier balancing AND easier maintaning, lesser development, streamlining.... ALL that together is just for one goal: to be as cheap, effective and scalable in development as possible.

its just because money. nothing else. doing everything by hand, without automated systems, without easy database knobs, non streamlined class design, having not all classes on the producer/consumer pattern and and and.... is expensive. doing what blizz do since years is cheap. simple as that.

[Prime92]

What balance? The game is anything but balanced and has been for a long time. Retards at Blizzard avoid work as much as possible, their stupid out of ass idea of linking everything to a small set of variables and "balance" things through +-X% of a variable they implemented at Legion launch is far beyond ridiculousness. Instead of making pvp and pve separate as far as talents are concerned (which break or make pvp in most cases) they do stupid shit that's never going to work. But then again, they deem players too stupid to understand basic things in WoW so how could people grasp the idea of 2 separate talent sets...

Btw. Ion stated many times that they intent for each spec to be good at specific situations, so that a spec could be good at burst AoE or ST or sustain AoE, etc. so go figure how much they fail/lie all the time.

[SkagenRora]

Yet, no matter what Blizzard does, clearly you aren't happy with anything they do, yet you are more than happy to throw your money at them. Why is that?

We don't enjoy paying for rent, food, Gas, Internet. But yet we do it. Why is that?

[rhorle]

We don't enjoy paying for rent, food, Gas, Internet. But yet we do it. Why is that?

People can live with out WoW. It is hard to live with out food. It is harder, but possible, to live with out housing or gas. Internet is basically a nessacity in the modern world but not really a requirement for living. It is silly to even attempt to put WoW in the same category as basic essentials. WoW, and all video games, are entertainment products. If you don't enjoy it find a different form of entertainment.

[SkagenRora]

People can live with out WoW. It is hard to live with out food. It is harder, but possible, to live with out housing or gas. Internet is basically a nessacity in the modern world but not really a requirement for living. It is silly to even attempt to put WoW in the same category as basic essentials. WoW, and all video games, are entertainment products. If you don't enjoy it find a different form of entertainment.

Some people live inside WoW and are really attached to it, So They rather see it "fixed" than to try and move away from it.

[Mirishka]

Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.

They focus on balance because of people like you, who cry endlessly on forums about any perceived slight in pointless topics (like this one).

"WAHHH MY ROGUE DOES 0.8% LESS DAMAGE THAN MAGE WTF BLIZZ HOLINKA IS CANCER"

If the game is so bad, such a turd, then what does that say about someone like you who spends so much of his life complaining about it?

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People can live with out WoW. It is hard to live with out food. It is harder, but possible, to live with out housing or gas. Internet is basically a nessacity in the modern world but not really a requirement for living. It is silly to even attempt to put WoW in the same category as basic essentials. WoW, and all video games, are entertainment products. If you don't enjoy it find a different form of entertainment.

On the contrary: these forums make it clear that some people can't live without WoW, even if they hate the state of it.

[Craaazyyy]

very true, people have been complaining about balance forever and the result is blizzard listening

but maybe balance is not fun?

balance is fun, but it's up to the way they're balancing.. i believe that the game can be relatively balanced by just tweaking numbers, it's just that blizzard are notoriously bad at it

[Kaver]

Have you played the game at all recently? There is more stuff to do then ever before outside of raids and Mythic+. Raids and Mythic+ are the ultimate end game activities but there is so much more to do outside of those for players if then want then previous expansion (except maybe legion because of order hall grinds).

The quality of the content outside of raids and M+ is very very low. The majority of Blizzard's dev time goes into instanced content and gear/character systems (balancing).

[Seranthor]

You know you don't need to use actual money for anything wow related anymore.

Cash, Time, or Gold, you are giving Blizzard something of value if you are subbed.

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Don't open the can of worms that will attract the fish that turn this into a "yes, you do...WoW is p2w...because token is $$$" thread

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But isn't rock paper scissors THE balanced game? You just need to pull the lucky / proper tool to counter. Both parties have all 3 "speccs" at their disposal.

As I see it the ones squealing the most want a rock, paper AND scissors, because not being able to be number 1 at everything is intolerable to them.

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We don't enjoy paying for rent, food, Gas, Internet. But yet we do it. Why is that?

Are you suggesting that playing Wow is necessary for human survival? If someone is 'living' inside the game to the exclusion of everything else they dont need the game 'fixed' they need their head examined and fixed.

[rhorle]

The quality of the content outside of raids and M+ is very very low. The majority of Blizzard's dev time goes into instanced content and gear/character systems (balancing).

The quality is not very very low outside of Mythic+ or Raids. And that is where the bias shows and why thing comments like this are silly. Objectively non-raid and M+ stuff is of a decent quality compared to what was offered prior. The majority of Blizzard's dev time has gone into content other then M+ or Raids. As seen by all the crap there is to do. They haven't even added that much to M+ over the course of the expansion to require "time". But they have done a ton of story lines and other stuff comparatively.

[glowpipe]

i take current classes any day over the shitfest that was vanilla and is classic. 80% fury warriors and 4 skills to use, tops