Blizzard's obsession with balancing sucked the fun out of the classes.

[Soikona]

What nonsense. You just want an OP class.

Classes don't need to be OP to be fun. They need depth. And that's what they don't have atm. Everything is 3-4 button rotations and then they added essences like it solved anything when they are rental powers.

For the record, balance is a very good thing. Your power level shouldnt come from your choice at the character creation screen.

But with Blizz, more buttons does not mean more depth, it means more bloat. My main Wildstar class (engineer) had more depth than WoW ever has, and it only had 6 abilities total at a time (off the top of my head) because of the passives.

I would agree with you, but Blizz has shown that it can not do depth. Do we really need bloat just because the developers can’t come up with an interesting mechanic that doesn’t require double digit abilities just for the basic rotation?

[Imurbandaid]

I play 4 characters and they all feel different, if not I wouldnt play 4 characters. Also sure OP says unbalance feels good, unless your the shitty class getting dumped on by everyone.

[Outofmana]

Some classes just don't 'flow' anymore.

I don't know who they put on Holypriest design for example, but that person does not know how to design a fun to play class. Put everything on a 30sec-2min cooldown and then Spell X reduces cooldown on spell Z, Spell C reduces cooldown of Spell X, spell Z reduces cooldown of spell A, spell B also reduces cooldown of spell B, and spell B is your big catchup heal. I mean, how does that feel free and have a good flow to heal? All you do is watch timers on your screen to see when which healing spell is off cooldown and do filler heals in the meantime.

I cannot believe how holy priest played when I got back to WoW in BFA, having played Hpriest from vanilla MC until the end of Pandaland. Horrible class design and I doubt the others are much better. I couldn't even try a lot of other healing classes as someone else, or the same person, decided healing is boring and you have to semi DPS now as a healer and turned a paladin/druid into dps/healing hybrids (gameplay I hate) like a disc priest.

It's all in the same vein these days, every 'challenge' or gearing content has to be timed, and the content itself has to involve a lot of timer watching, or WA timer watching in the case of raids. The designteam itself, Ion being the main culprit it seems, is just whack.

[Soluna]

Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.

You make a post to complain about blizzard listening to the people which led to this shitfest, only to be one of these people too, to hopefully get blizzard to listen to you. Don't you see how this is contradictory af?

[Corroc]

What's balanced about 50% of the player base getting a 15-20% dps increase from corruptions while the other half gets screwed over? Blizzard's obsession lies with RNG, not balance.

That's pretty exact numbers you got there.

[Kaver]

Classes are only balanced for raiding and Mythic because Blizzard is trying to allow everyone, regardless of spec, to enjoy the content.

This is where we agree and what the topic is about. But also, this is what the majority of the players are requesting. They want to be able to raid etc on the Class/Spec they want. And the players who don’t have want balancing have already moved on to Classic.

[Kalisandra]

Healer: The least bad. All the abilities feel like they have a reason to exist beyond just giving the player more buttons. Or it would be if the community didn't expect you to put in twice as much effort as anyone else in trivial content.

The fact that you can't do decent mouseover casting, etc. makes healing in FFXIV a complete pain as far as I'm concerned. Being expected to do DPS on top of that is a real pain.

The actual combat loop is by far the worst part of the game. 100% strictly worse than WoW. If that was all the game had, I would have played it once and never touched it again. I wouldn't do it at all if the game didn't absolutely require you to do combat quest progression for crafting and gathering.

It's the thing that brings me back to WoW, only to be annoyed over and over, because for all the smoothness and fluidity of WoW's combat it's not what it could be, not what it was.

[Eurhetemec]

Some classes just don't 'flow' anymore.

Welcome to every single expansion WoW has ever had. All of them. With no exceptions. Including Vanilla.

[rhorle]

My point is that it would not function. Just like Mythic or even Heroic raiding wouldn't function with Vanilla balancing.

Dungeons exist in Vanilla. Dungeons can be made progressive harder with a timer with Vanilla balancing. Mythic+ would be possible to do at any point of WoW. Because it doesn't rely on class balance. Just as raiding was possible regardless of class balance. The balance isn't what makes the dungeons harder. Mythic+ isn't significantly harder then Heroic simply because the classes are balanced now. I am not even sure where you get that notion.

They are harder because Blizzard tuned them to be progressively harder. They then balance the classes to where they want. Which is why not every class is represented or good at higher keystones right now. Because it isn't balanced and yet it still exists. Which means in Vanilla there easily could have been a Mythic+ which would just play to the imbalanced classes.

[Garretdejiko]

rofl. now thats a bit of a stretch. come back to earth

A supercut with screencaps of threads about Infinite Stars plays with comedic french music

[bloodykiller86]

That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.

facts dude....but you know what i actually really enjoy my Fury warrior rotation now flows Sooooo much better than any previous expansion. only thing i want back is my 1shot macro from legion (also having high burst) and shockwave being baseline because stormbolt sucks lol

[Eurhetemec]

Dungeons exist in Vanilla. Dungeons can be made progressive harder with a timer with Vanilla balancing. Mythic+ would be possible to do at any point of WoW. Because it doesn't rely on class balance. Just as raiding was possible regardless of class balance. The balance isn't what makes the dungeons harder. Mythic+ isn't significantly harder then Heroic simply because the classes are balanced now. I am not even sure where you get that notion.

They are harder because Blizzard tuned them to be progressively harder. They then balance the classes to where they want. Which is why not every class is represented or good at higher keystones right now. Because it isn't balanced and yet it still exists. Which means in Vanilla there easily could have been a Mythic+ which would just play to the imbalanced classes.

You're really not getting it. You couldn't have had M+ in Vanilla in any meaningful way. Dungeons existing isn't enough to allow for M+ you need enough balance that the progressive difficulty is actually progressive difficulty. And you're ignoring the other half of Vanilla balance issues, which was WITHIN classes, where many classes, including Warrior and Priest, didn't actually have the tools to function efficiently, and couldn't really have dealt with harder difficulties through better play very well. You particularly could not do the Affixes in any way that actually worked.

I mean, could I slap a mode into a Vanilla server, call it M+, put a timer on it, put the keystone system on it, and add Affixes? Yes, obviously technically that's possible, just like I could make a Heroic and Mythic version of AQ40 or Naxx40 or whatever, but would it play anything like M+? Would it make any sense as a feature? Would it be "M+" in any meaningful way, rather than a bad parody of it? No.

I can see you've hit on this absolutist position, and you're not actually thinking about the nuances of the issue at this point, but maybe you should? You can't have "Hard dungeons" when your balance is total trash, because they'll randomly be easy or hard depending on the classes involved, exact monsters involved, and so on. Whereas with M+, whilst there might be a few key levels in it, because the classes are relatively balanced, they're of reliable difficulty.

Also, did you just imply Heroic existed whilst Vanilla balancing existed? Because no, no it didn't. That's a TBC thing and TBC balancing is DRASTICALLY different to Vanilla.

[Ninix]

Players' obsession*

[rhorle]

You're really not getting it. You couldn't have had M+ in Vanilla in any meaningful way. Dungeons existing isn't enough to allow for M+ you need enough balance that the progressive difficulty is actually progressive difficulty

The difficulty of an instance isn't tied to the balance of classes. Otherwise there would have be no content more difficult then 5-mans in Vanilla. And yet there were several raid tiers released that were designed to be more difficult then the last. Mythic+ right now doesn't have perfect class balance yet has progressive difficulty. Warrior tanks dominate the top 100.

Mythic+ could certainly have existed in Vanilla. For the same reason why content that was harder then other content existed. Your Scholomance was as hard as Naxx because class balance doesn't allow for harder content to exist in Vanilla.

I can see you've hit on this absolutist position, and you're not actually thinking about the nuances of the issue at this point, but maybe you should? You can't have "Hard dungeons" when your balance is total trash, because they'll randomly be easy or hard depending on the classes involved, exact monsters involved, and so on. Whereas with M+, whilst there might be a few key levels in it, because the classes are relatively balanced, they're of reliable difficulty.

Then why is it that certain classes make Mythic+ keystones way easier depending on the group composition? Mythic+ has a very difficulty based on the group already. Which is impossible to happen according to you yet is how the system function even with the better balance that exists. Also I didn't imply Heroic existed in Vanilla. Try reading and comprehending. I was talking about the difficulty gap between Heroic and Mythic+ "now". The keyword being now.

[Eurhetemec]

Mythic+ could certainly have existed in Vanilla. For the same reason why content that was harder then other content existed. Your Scholomance was as hard as Naxx because class balance doesn't allow for harder content to exist in Vanilla.

That you don't get how this proves my point is the problem here. You could have something you called Mythic+. It wouldn't, in any meaningful way, be Mythic+. This is the pedantic point you're pushing. Yeah, you can mimic something and call it something, but that doesn't actually make it in any meaningful way the same thing.

Then why is it that certain classes make Mythic+ keystones way easier depending on the group composition? Mythic+ has a very difficulty based on the group already. Which is impossible to happen according to you yet is how the system function even with the better balance that exists. Also I didn't imply Heroic existed in Vanilla. Try reading and comprehending. I was talking about the difficulty gap between Heroic and Mythic+ "now". The keyword being now.

Man claims I said something I didn't, then complains about "reading comprehension". Oh the irony.

You're proving my point. Even with strong balance, as we have now (much as people don't want to admit it), certain sets of Affixes are much harder for certain classes. If you tried this in Vanilla, you'd get something that was totally unplayable. Where zero class combos could even complete it in the timer without exploits many weeks. That wouldn't be "Mythic+", that'd be a sad mess.

[rhorle]

That you don't get how this proves my point is the problem here. You could have something you called Mythic+. It wouldn't, in any meaningful way, be Mythic+. This is the pedantic point you're pushing. Yeah, you can mimic something and call it something, but that doesn't actually make it in any meaningful way the same thing.

I have never literally claim it would be an exact copy of what we have today. I don't get why you are focusing on that. Mythic+ and raiding can exist with poor class balance. The classes that people would play to complete that content would just be the ones that are over powered with the least powerful ones having little to no representation. I am not proving your point at all because you keep arguing that Mythic+ was impossible in Vanilla. When it isn't. Because class balance doesn't mean progressive difficulty with bonus mechanics can't exist. It just means the classes doing that content would not have a relatively even distribution.

You're proving my point. Even with strong balance, as we have now (much as people don't want to admit it), certain sets of Affixes are much harder for certain classes. If you tried this in Vanilla, you'd get something that was totally unplayable. Where zero class combos could even complete it in the timer without exploits many weeks. That wouldn't be "Mythic+", that'd be a sad mess.

So nothing can be complete in Vanilla because the class balance was so terrible. Yet 5-mans that were harder then others could be done. Raids that were harder then others could be done. Mythic+ could exist because all Mythic+ is is a progressively harder 5-man. If both Nax and MC can exist in Vanilla WoW then both a Mythic 0 and a Mythic +10 could exist. Because that is exactly what raid tiers are a different mythic+ level.

Progressive difficulty existed in Vanilla. Raiding and Dungeons existed even with poor class balance. That is really the end of it. It could have existed. It wouldn't have been fun for the players who had the terrible classes which is exactly why Blizzard tries to balance all classes equally instead of just doing whatever and saying "oh well".

[Merin]

That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.

It is unbalanced, highly so.

That's the funny part. They destroyed class design and accomplished nothing.