If you had to pick one. Nationalism, Socialism?

[tankbug]

Nationalism is pointless. Yes, you want to belong to a community, but why not find people you share interest/values with instead of looking at where they were born. I like my country, but I wouldn't if the government/people represented different values than I have. The world would be better if we could reduce the "us vs them" mentality.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Should read Marx some time. The ghastly fellow positively revelled in the idea of exterminating the bourgeoisie & instituting a reign of terror.

No thanks. If I am going to read something its going to be relevant. Not to mention I think Karl is a human and not an ideology which kind of proves my point that was conveniently snipped from your quote. Even if he is the so called founder its hard to argue socialism doesn't have some value. I mean socialst democracys are some of the finest examples of government in the world. While they might not be "pure" is an argument it did bring about some inspiration and thus not a totally evil concept just because an asshole in the past, if not many assholes, tried to make it so. When used correctly it is not a vehicle for mass murder just because it's "socialsim".

[Teleros]

If I am going to read something its going to be relevant.

Sadly that sod still is.

Now, where did I say socialism has no or zero value? In spite of its colossal death toll it arguably preserved the nations under it better than Western neo-liberalism, for example.

When used correctly it is not a vehicle for mass murder just because it's "socialsim".

This is verging on "real communism has never been tried" tier stuff.

[omeomorfismo]

Yeah, it's definitely better to pick the ideology that's killed upwards of a hundred million people than to hurt the feelings of foreigners .

We got some big brains in this thread I see.

= = =


Well quite. Pick one: apples or tennis rackets .


That's just what a nazi would say though!!!1!


I think it's more that zealots tend to forget the inconvenient bits of whatever it is they're zealous about. There's also the fact that people can't even get the definitions right: old Mean Mr Moustache used German nationalism as a vehicle for German imperialism, and of course everyone pretends that the socialism he both preached & practised never existed .

lol, because england alone isnt enough to surpass any other murder count...
damn, still during ww2 churchill was laughing about indians (basically) genocides...

[Low Hanging Fruit]

lol, because england alone isnt enough to surpass any other murder count...
damn, still during ww2 churchill was laughing about indians (basically) genocides...

Were they a modern socialist democracy at the time or did they answer to the crown?

Not to mention.. we can probably go back to when cave men fought cave men over cave ladies and determine that all systems are rooted in murder. Shall we?

[JohnBrown1917]

Please don't spread your conspiracy theory garbage here, it's against the rules.

lol
We know those numbers include the nazi soldiers that where killed in WWII. No historian worth his salt uses that data.


And if you're including starvation numbers, can we include everybody who starved under capitalism?

[the game]

No amount of nationalism is good imo.

So essentially you made this thread to tell people who support nationalism that they are wrong.

[NED funded]

Nationalism. Socialism necessarily guarantees my death whereas nationalism aint that bad

[Machismo]

Nationalism. Socialism necessarily guarantees my death whereas nationalism aint that bad

Don't tell that to the Jews in 1940.

[JohnBrown1917]

Nationalism. Socialism necessarily guarantees my death whereas nationalism aint that bad

Must be nice to be so privileged.

[NED funded]

Don't tell that to the Jews in 1940.

Not all nationalism is nazism dude. At least I can take solace in that. Whereas according to Marx in order to implement socialism its necessary a violent revolution and a consistent crushing of "counter-revolutionaries"

[Queen of Hamsters]

Ugh, I guess Socialism. Nationalism simply fuels the worst of the worst, so...

[Santti]

Nationalism is pointless. Yes, you want to belong to a community, but why not find people you share interest/values with instead of looking at where they were born. I like my country, but I wouldn't if the government/people represented different values than I have. The world would be better if we could reduce the "us vs them" mentality.

This. We're just fine without Nationalism, whereas Socialism is something we have and need. Yes, even America has it in many, many forms. Well, except for the "interesting" form of Socialism for the rich. Don't really need that.

[Machismo]

Not all nationalism is nazism dude. At least I can take solace in that. Whereas according to Marx in order to implement socialism its necessary a violent revolution and a consistent crushing of "counter-revolutionaries"

Not all socialism is Venezuela, dude.

See how that works?

You have Social Security, Medicare, police departments, fire departments, the military, veterans' benefits, farm subsidies, and even those tariffs you love so damn much. All of it is socialism, making you a socialist.

The irony is hilarious.

[Teleros]

lol, because england alone isnt enough to surpass any other murder count...

Unironically no.

Don't tell that to the Jews in 1940.

1. Imperialism =/= nationalism.

2. Your dates are off if you want to bring that up. 1940 it was more about forced deportations and such - extermination didn't happen until later, when the Nazis conquered all the lands they'd been sending the Jews to.

Not all socialism is Venezuela, dude.

Give it time.

Remember, bread lines are a good thing, just ask Bernie.

[Machismo]

Unironically no.


1. Imperialism =/= nationalism.

2. Your dates are off if you want to bring that up. 1940 it was more about forced deportations and such - extermination didn't happen until later, when the Nazis conquered all the lands they'd been sending the Jews to.


Give it time.

Remember, bread lines are a good thing, just ask Bernie.

I did give it to you,and you edited it out.

My dates are just fine. Watching the Nazi regime was a great example of why nationalism is so fucking terrible, because it is based on racism and xenophobia, and is a direct attack against capitalism.

That's the part you guys dont get, nationalism is socialism.

[omeomorfismo]

Were they a modern socialist democracy at the time or did they answer to the crown?

Not to mention.. we can probably go back to when cave men fought cave men over cave ladies and determine that all systems are rooted in murder. Shall we?

what? churchill is contemporaneous of stalin, and differently than stalin he hadnt to pick up an highly isolated nation that just ended a civil war. damn, stalin was an orrible person, but at least he won the war and made urss a superpower after all the famines.
churchill sacrificed with scorched earth 3 millions of indians and laughted at them asking himself how gandhi was still alive

Unironically no.

actually yes, using the same measures that allow to inflate urss up to 20M, british' india suffer something like 100M.

[Endus]

Not all nationalism is nazism dude. At least I can take solace in that. Whereas according to Marx in order to implement socialism its necessary a violent revolution and a consistent crushing of "counter-revolutionaries"

1> Marx isn't remotely the originator of socialist theory. If you hear "socialism" and immediately think it all derives from Marx, you have no fucking clue what socialism is, as a concept, and your views on it can safely be discarded as complete nonsense.

2> Marx' theory of revolution was predicated on the outcomes of events like the American Revolution. Where a violent revolution and a crushing of "counter-revolutionaries" was literally what actually happened, to bring about the USA. That Americans condemn Marx for suggesting a similar revolutionary tactic as the Americans celebrate is bafflingly hypocritical. If you've got a problem with Marx, you should have way more problems with the foundational principles of the USA, because the Founding Fathers actually perpetrated their violent revolution; Marx was just writing a "what-if" hypothesis and never actually fostered any violence, himself.

[NED funded]

Not all socialism is Venezuela, dude.

See how that works?

You have Social Security, Medicare, police departments, fire departments, the military, veterans' benefits, farm subsidies, and even those tariffs you love so damn much. All of it is socialism, making you a socialist.

The irony is hilarious.

The police and military are socialism

Fucking end me dud3 XD

[Machismo]

The police and military are socialism

Fucking end me dud3 XD

Yes, yes they are socialistic. So is your beloved nationalism.