"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
Maybe not this time, but blindly believing in everything that Blizzard(their employee) says is foolish.
Source of that?
I just don't believe that they were thinking about Azerite Islands for 2 expansions(and if they seriously did then fuck them for being lazy asses), same for Dragon Soul, it just felt like someone didn't have any resources or was really uninspired.
Torghast + HV? Sure thing. But everything? I'm not buying that.
I don't want Torghast because it sounds way too similar to D3 rifts. I've played D3. I've played rifts. Years and years ago. They sucked. I don't want to see WoW go anywhere in that direction.
TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.
It's a ripoff of Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High in FFXIV. The only difference is, in FFXIV, it's very much a side/optional thing (it's mostly used to level alts). The way FFXIV works is, there are a LOT of side/optional things, and you can pretty much choose what you like doing, and you have PLENTY of choices.
Blizzard is not like that. They believe in "forcing" people to do "everything". They have the mindset of "we spent good money making all this content, so you are going to do every bit of it and like it, because we know what's fun". So they will design the systems to "require" people to do everything. You can bet that Torghast will be absolutely forced, the same way dailies were in MOP, the same way the garrisons were in WOD. I personally quit WOW in Oct 2017 and have no plans to ever return (because Blizzard is no longer a company that I am ok with giving money to), so this won't affect me, but I played WOW for long enough to be able to tell what they will do when a "feature" of an expansion is marketed so heavily.
They describe Tourghast as an Endless Dungeon. They're probably building it to be more similar to Mythic Plus, which lasts people as renewable content through expansions now.
Source of which bit?
Dragon Soul, given the massive complexity of what they did, as hard as it might have sucked, and the huge, world-altering implications, and so on, was definitely planned an extremely long way out. Just because something sucks or is boring, doesn't mean it didn't take a long time to do (I mean, just look at the dev cycles of most MMOs lol - years and years to make utterly tedious content that makes WoW look like Devil May Cry or something). I don't think it was "uninspired", either, just like the rest of Cataclysm, "a fucking terrible idea". Cataclysm is a giant pile of bad ideas on top of a fundamentally good one (re-vamp the old world), and even that good idea they implemented in the dumbest long-term way possible. The original old world was kind of timeless, and it made sense for it to still be the way it was as you leveled. Cataclysm stuck the entire old world into a very specific period of a few days or weeks, which was a completely insane thing to do. I genuinely believe that the people who directed Cataclysm were on serious amounts of coke (LSD or weed would have produced something a lot nicer).
Azerite islands are I suspect an evolution of ideas that had been bouncing around for a long time. I think Blizzard had been trying to work out some engaging small-group content, and trying to work on smarter NPCs/monsters for a while, and I also suspect the idea of islands appealed to them for a long time. But it all came together in a totally horrible way. The fact that they're all giant rush (because of the "competitive" design), use three players exactly, have terrible rewards (OOOOH Azerite everyone fucking loves more fucking Azerite), and you can't actually explore them or anything. I do agree they probably didn't have them planned specifically pre-BfA, but I have no doubt they had "small group" content on the cooker for a long time.
Yeah, I'm not saying everything. It's literally right there in the text you quoted! But something like Dragon Soul is a good example of something that was planned long-distance.
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Wow, no it isn't. This has been discussed at some length in another thread.
If you want to say it's a rip-off of something, it's a rip-off of Dead Cells or Slay the Spire or something. Of progressive Roguelikes in general. It's a massively different design to PotD etc. and if you're probably going to back here complaining at huge length that the Maw is "not what I expected!" and claiming "Blizz lied" or the like, when in fact you just didn't get it.
Why are you still posting here if you have no plans to return? At least the other people who compare here and spew out cynical nonsense admit that they will likely try SL.
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It's amazing how good people are at misunderstanding what Blizzard have said. It's not timed, it's not a rush, and it's all about the randomised stuff you find which permanently alters that entire run.
If you think that's D3 Rifts, you're a gaming illiterate. It's Dead Cells and games like that.
100% this. I pray Torghast doesn't require grinding garbage boring content that's boring day 1 and you have to grind it constantly like you do for visions right now. Visions are the best part of this really god awful patch, possibly the *only* thing good this patch brought (the raid's fine, but whatever it's a raid, it's expected). The dailies are so terrible though.
I know it sounds silly but it's actually enjoyable to have solo content I can bash my head on again like Proving Grounds, Warlock Green Fire, Legion Mage Tower, etc. Bashing your head against a wall because 19 other idiots can't do a simple mechanic is annoying, but when it's just me, I know what I need to do to fine-tune my strat, and having a non-timed, endless, dungeon like this would be PHENOMENAL if I don't have to grind boring content that's also time-gated because "lel limited attempts".
Still wondering why I play this game.
I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.
You simply have no idea how Torghast will be, none does.
Not even open alpha is out yet.
What we saw is all theories and paper.
They are described as challengless grind content for people who want to progress without doing harder content that isn't all that inspiring.
Raiders re torn between hoping they wont be required for progression and hoping they will be hard enough to make bank selling runs to terrible players for gold.
Rifts in Diablo were good. Not amazing, not perfect but fun and repeatable. They work way fucking better than M+ does, that's for sure.
Paladin Bash has spoken.
Well, you say you despise M+ and that's quite a successful feature so your opinion doesn't seem to reflect what the majority finds enjoyable.
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No it doesn't. There's a cap exactly so you don't get "permanently behind". I swear, maybe there would be a lot less hate if people understood the systems instead of analyzing what they think is wrong with them.
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I think I did 6 this week. In half of them I boosted someone who sat dead on the floor while I did the wings with several masks. Pretty sure you can afford a LOT of mistakes. People got scared the first run and didn't understand that it becomes more forgiving and easy the more time goes by. That it's SUPPOSED to be very hard at the start and you keep working on it so it gets easy
Just because M+ are successfully (and I'm not disputing that) doesn't mean that the majority of players find them enjoyable. It's anecdotal, but most people I've talked to don't enjoy them, but some still run them for the rewards. There's a difference between participation and enjoyment, and even then, I'd be surprised if the majority of the player base runs M+; if there's evidence somewhere, I'd love to see it!
Did they get credit for being dead on the floor? I thought people had to be alive for killing a wing boss in order to get credit, but I could be mistaken about that. Regardless, I do think people really think they're less forgiving than they actually are. I've failed a bunch of runs, was behind the cap for the first week, but I caught up on week 2, did my solo 5-mask runs before 15, and am right up next to the others. I now host runs for raid members who are behind to help them get their 15 cloaks. Overall I think it's a great system beside the time commitment required to get attempts.
I like horrific visions, but not really keen about the farming entry fee. And the worst is playing it with Alts without Titanic Research levelled. It's fine to farm all of it on main char first but please for the love of Elune make any such thing in Thorgast account wide.
imo better comaprison would be "they want to play LoL with gear progression system while in instances"
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problem is it doesnt work with this system being acount wide.
because they on alt you would just walk in and start pushing masks imidiately .
and be done in 1-2 evenings per toon .
But the Gear Progression is also unfair! Because poeple who can play better have better gear than me. I want Mythic+ without timer and Mythic raiding kicked from the game. The bad elitists who raid Mythic are the worst for the game! Just give me full Mythic Gear in the Mail each week.
/ironyoff
I don't really understand the comparison to torghast in the manner that torghast is the iterative successor to horrific visions.
Torghast is a roguelike encounter with levels and buffs that change so frequently both try to try and week to week that no real gameplan can be made until your inside outside of enemies and buffs (as long as layouts are varied enough).
Horrific visions are a set timed encounter with extremely minor changes such as buff locations,crystals,etc. With the most variation being a rotation system. This means strategies and game plans can be made to deal with the system, and the internal progression is a linear permanent tree.
These two encounters are fundamentally different to where input on one system doesn't impact another. The tower can be a system that is iterated across the expansion with different mobs different buffs different layouts can be added because the content is supposed to be repeatable. Meanwhile the orgrimmar and stormwind encounters are completed, the challenges are beat the goal is achieved and all they can do is make a new encounter to beat, like a new raid. I think both are cool and both can be iterated on to where they both have a space, it's up to blizzard to make good content. Torghast I would be more worried cause there have been flaws with a lot of repeatable content in recent wow, where designing a set encounter has usually been done pretty well. I think the formulas are good this time, just down to execution.
And what exactly is the harm in that? We do all the farming once "experiencing the content" as it was meant to be. I see no reason to farm it again and again and again and again (let's face it, most of us have at least 3 max level Alts). So what if my Alt can start with full clears right away.