It was completely in-character for Vol'jin to choose Sylvanas

[kansor]

Shadowlands datamining has shown that as we predicted, Blizzard has made it that Mueh’zala “whispered” to Vol’jin to make Sylvanas warchief.

But originally, the cutscene line about “the spirits whisper a name” was just a throwaway line. We also know, because it runs directly contrary to “A Good War”, that the idea of Sylvanas starting the war to kill people because when people die she gains power was a later addition.

Remove these post-hoc rationalizations, and you get a clearer picture. In a time of extreme crisis, Vol’jin chose as his successor the Horde leader who had the most military experience, the one who he knew would ruthlessly pursue victory at all costs. (By comparison, around this time, General Saurfang was making suicidal trips to the Broken Shore in hopes that some random demon would off him. He was old, mentally addled, and obviously unfit for office. Vol’jin was not dumb enough to make him warchief.)

He may have taken a gamble due to Sylvanas’s past behavior, but remember that although Vol’jin gets whitewashed, he was himself a pretty nasty guy who practiced dark voodoo and served a loa of death. He also had no part in orcish “honor” culture. After the Broken Shore, the Legion seemed like it was about to destroy everything. It would be completely in-character for Vol’jin to believe that Sylvanas was, as he said, the most capable person to lead in that situation. The only other viable choices were Lor’themar and Eitrigg. Lor’themar was too disconnected and Eitrigg is a fraction of Sylvanas’s ancient age, with a fraction of her experience and power.

Logically, there was no need for a deus ex machina (manipulation by Mueh’zala) to make Sylvanas his successor, and the pushing of this plot device makes for a less interesting story -- no flawed or interesting choices, just two stark sides and the postmortem whitewashing of a sinister troll shadow hunter.

Mod Edit: This thread is closed.

[Stelio Kontos]

Man, I can't wait until we kill Sylvanas and the fanboys can either quit or move on to another subject of fetishization.

Infracted.

[Sorshen]

These Sylvanas fan threads are getting tiring...

[Flurryfang]

Shadowlands datamining has shown that as we predicted, Blizzard has made it that Mueh’zala “whispered” to Vol’jin to make Sylvanas warchief.

But originally, the cutscene line about “the spirits whisper a name” was just a throwaway line. We also know, because it runs directly contrary to “A Good War”, that the idea of Sylvanas starting the war to kill people because when people die she gains power was a later addition.

Remove these post-hoc rationalizations, and you get a clearer picture. In a time of extreme crisis, Vol’jin chose as his successor the Horde leader who had the most military experience, the one who he knew would ruthlessly pursue victory at all costs. (By comparison, around this time, General Saurfang was making suicidal trips to the Broken Shore in hopes that some random demon would off him. He was old, mentally addled, and obviously unfit for office. Vol’jin was not dumb enough to make him warchief.)

He may have taken a gamble due to Sylvanas’s past behavior, but remember that although Vol’jin gets whitewashed, he was himself a pretty nasty guy who practiced dark voodoo and served a loa of death. He also had no part in orcish “honor” culture. After the Broken Shore, the Legion seemed like it was about to destroy everything. It would be completely in-character for Vol’jin to believe that Sylvanas was, as he said, the most capable person to lead in that situation. The only other viable choices were Lor’themar and Eitrigg. Lor’themar was too disconnected and Eitrigg is a fraction of Sylvanas’s ancient age, with a fraction of her experience and power.

Logically, there was no need for a deus ex machina (manipulation by Mueh’zala) to make Sylvanas his successor, and the pushing of this plot device makes for a less interesting story -- no flawed or interesting choices, just two stark sides and the postmortem whitewashing of a sinister troll shadow hunter.

I think this has pretty much been said in the "Character murder of Sylvanas" thread. Yeah, she has been completly wasted and messed up as a character, and that has damaged other characters aswell, like Vol'jin.

When Sylvanas was chosen to be Warchief, most people were like "Sure, that kinda makes sense", because it did. With the lackluster characters left in the Horde, Sylvanas was the only candidate. Its a sad ret con, that they have to make it into "He was manipulated! :O".

[Mirishka]

Man, I can't wait until we kill Sylvanas and the fanboys can either quit or move on to another subject of fetishization.

Amen.

/10char

[Razion]

According to this evidence, Vol'jin wasn't being mind-controlled.
So he has his own agency, so if Vol'jin didn't want Sylvannas in charge, he could have named a different successor.
I think it's reasonable then to think that he was doing what he thought was best in the moment.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

According to this evidence, Vol'jin wasn't being mind-controlled.
So he has his own agency, so if Vol'jin didn't want Sylvannas in charge, he could have named a different successor.
I think it's reasonable then to think that he was doing what he thought was best in the moment.

Sort of. He trusted the whispers of the spirits, which he assumed to be coming from Bwonsamdi.

Do people really think this is a retcon? Unless I'm misremembering, people were absolutely talking at the time about "who manipulated Vol'jin because there was no way he'd ever pick Sylvanas."

[cparle87]

Man, I can't wait until we kill Sylvanas and the fanboys can either quit or move on to another subject of fetishization.

Imagine being so simple minded that you can't conceive of why someone else would like a character that you don't unless they're fetishizing them.

[Trumpcat]

Man, I can't wait until we kill Sylvanas and the fanboys can either quit or move on to another subject of fetishization.

Which is a pity, because she's got a fantastic voice actress. Sylvanas could have been the awesome dark queen we thought she is becoming in the BfA cinematic. Hopefully this character will soon have its agony ended.

[Razion]

Sort of. He trusted the whispers of the spirits, which he assumed to be coming from Bwonsamdi.

Do people really think this is a retcon? Unless I'm misremembering, people were absolutely talking at the time about "who manipulated Vol'jin because there was no way he'd ever pick Sylvanas."

I guess people only really see it as a little weird because Vol'jin and Sylvanas didn't have as much of a friendship established. Sylvanas did help Vol'jin with his rebellion, but they didn't actually directly interact much as far as the players could see to any degree that would signify much of a strong friendship. They're both hunters, in a way, and both have connections to death, in a way, and both have enemies in the Human kingdoms. There was a lot of potential reason for WHY they could have built a friendship, but we never got to see much of it established in-game at that point, at least.

[Oneirophobia]

Man, I can't wait until we kill Sylvanas and the fanboys can either quit or move on to another subject of fetishization.

It'll move onto Tyrande or whoever and it'll be revealed she actually was dating Illdan the whole time and she isn't really into the moon at all, despite a book recently released from her perspective talking about how much she loves moon and also malfurion.

And then she'll gas a room full of children while being called morally grey or something.

[Tojara]

I mean it stated when he was dying that the spirits helped him decide, and considering Trolls take that shit seriously, so I doubt that he thought he was truly being manipulated.

All of that said, there's like virtually zero interaction between both of the characters. It never outright tells you that they dislike one another, but you would have to imagine that every single one of the other Horde races wouldn't be somewhat suspicious of the Forsaken in general, right? That would literally mean that Garrosh was the only one that saw her for what she really was, an abomination and a huge bitch.

[Minikin]

Man, I can't wait until we kill Sylvanas and the fanboys can either quit or move on to another subject of fetishization.

we need an auto merge feature. or an Official Sylvanas thread to go along with the high elf thread.

[Rozz]

This could have been included in the character assassination thread, so I'll close this and suggest discussion continue there.