We should be able to unlock abilities / spells / talents by playing the content we en

[Palapop]

No. No, no, no, no... NO!

No one should have to "unlock" abilities!!!!!

Game was IMMEASURABLY better when we WERE NOT required to farm/grind/pray RNG to get our BASIC ABILITIES which current "end-game-play level" of classes was designed for. (however would you name that phenomena)

This counts for: legion artifacts (which were actually old glyphs which you had to UNLOCK by grinding the living shit out of WQs/dungeons/raids), pray RNG gods to get bis legendary item which was actually MUST HAVE if you wanted to have most optional gameplay style of your spec.

bfa: neck AP grind (mindless grind of WQs and IEs), azerite essences (same, RNG + mindless grind which took weeks or even months to complete), azerite gear....

all of this was introduced as "content" which was actually nothing more but shackles if you wanted to play your class as it was intended to be.

THAT is EXTREMELY wrong!

Yes, WOW was ALWAYS grind-fest. But we used to grind pets/mounts/toys/achies/reps.... which is OK.

But if you have to GRIND and pray RNG Gods just so you could get DAMN ABILITIES- that is EXTREMELY WRONG! And it turned off many, MANY players!

[munkeyinorbit]

I don't mind be it it active or passive, I just don't want my core abilities being gated behind content I don't like, that it.

What core abilities do you feel were gated behind content you didn't like in BfA?

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That's the problem, why should I do content I don't like, even just once, for a core ability ?

What core ability was locked behind content you don't like?

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So you find it absolutely normal to gate "abilities", not "gear" or "cosmetics", no, just freaking "abilities" behind content ? no wonder Blizzard fucking up the game with.

If you are talking about esscences then you are talking about gear. Gear is always locked behind content.

[MrLachyG]

three raids is not enough to fill the amount of time the xpac existed...


TIL straight facts regarding the numbers of each type of content is bias.


Fact of the matter is WOD had way less content than previous xpacs while lasting longer.

nobody is denying that WoD had less content. that is an undeniable fact. however, you specifically said that WoD "didn't have any raids to do" which is obviously wrong and is what the person you quoted is pointing out (I am assuming you were being sarcastic/joking). The quality of raids in WoD were good, just there wasn't enough. it had good content, just not enough of it

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No. No, no, no, no... NO!

No one should have to "unlock" abilities!!!!!

Game was IMMEASURABLY better when we WERE NOT required to farm/grind/pray RNG to get our BASIC ABILITIES which current "end-game-play level" of classes was designed for. (however would you name that phenomena)

except these aren't basic abilities. they are additional abilities which we will probably lose or become obselete the moment we hit level 51 next expansion

[BeepBoo]

nobody is denying that WoD had less content. that is an undeniable fact. however, you specifically said that WoD "didn't have any raids to do"

Pretty obvious that if it's "raid or die" and they don't have enough raids to fill the content gaps out then it becomes "die." Stop being so literal about it. Clearly EVERY fucking xpac has had raids. It's their absolute core end-game content. Jeebus.

[Palapop]

except these aren't basic abilities. they are additional abilities which we will probably lose or become obselete the moment we hit level 51 next expansion

But the content and scaling is done in such way that it is already taken as "normal" that you have obtained all these abilities.

Just try to imagine Ny'alotha without a single raid member having essences. Or even legendary cloak. No one would be even able to kill N'zoth.

So yeah... They are taken into math when they created 8.2 and 8.3 content.

[Ielenia]

No, but looks like you can't read correctly.

Actually, if what you're complaining about being forced to do content you do not like, then asking what content you do like is a very pertinent question.

[Kokolums]

and not like essences where you are forced to play content you don't like to unlock them, why should I do "X or Y" content that I hate just to unlock a spell, which is a core for my gameplay ?

I don't mind seeing gear / cosmetic items / titles being locked behind specific activities, but abilities ? seriously, this is one of the worst gating I've seen in a while and should be changed before Shadowlands

You want the WoD model, which everyone hated.

You want to raid log and then go do something else, with the rest of the game being optional. People complained loud and hard that there was nothing to do. So Blizz created Legion where you had to grind AP. We're NEVER reverting that change. Get over it.

[Marrilaife]

No one should have to "unlock" abilities!!!!!

Game was IMMEASURABLY better when we WERE NOT required to farm/grind/pray RNG to get our BASIC ABILITIES which current "end-game-play level" of classes was designed for. (however would you name that phenomena)

Tbh people used to get talents while levelling, but instead of that they moved half of that to max level grinds. In consequence, while levelling, people feel they're getting fuck all improvement to their character.

[Nathanyel]

three raids is not enough to fill the amount of time the xpac existed...

BC also had only three (and a half) raid tiers:
T4: Karazhan/Gruul/Magtheridon
T5: Serpentshrine Cavern/Tempest Keep
T6: Mount Hyjal/Black Temple, plus Sunwell Plateau which dropped more Tier slots.

Game was IMMEASURABLY better when we WERE NOT required to farm/grind/pray RNG to get our BASIC ABILITIES which current "end-game-play level" of classes was designed for. (however would you name that phenomena)

Except they aren't class abilities, they're endgame player power progression with a new look. Seriously, people complain even if the new thing is more interesting than the old thing.

But the content and scaling is done in such way that it is already taken as "normal" that you have obtained all these abilities.

Just try to imagine Ny'alotha without a single raid member having essences. Or even legendary cloak. No one would be even able to kill N'zoth.

Don't act like that's a new thing. E.g. people got kicked from PuGs in MoP for not having the max version of the cloak, or in any expansion for having an iLvl lower than the leader's high expectations.

[Schmilblick]

...because you say so? That isn't REALLY a compelling argument...unless there is some well know game analyst, critic or journalist / dev hidden behind the name "Schmilblick" - in which case I would like to read the extensive work you have poured into this subject beyond the 4 lines you are throwing us here.

And..no..you are NOT "forced" to play content you don't like. You do not have to do ""X or Y" content that I hate just to unlock a spell, which is a core for my gameplay ?"

This is not life or death. This is not paying your rent. This is just a stupid game and if you dislike it so much...there are tons of other games out there that might suit you better.

Your 13 Euros do not mean the world to anyone...well..maybe to starving children in Africa...so why not give it to them and not to a company that makes a game in a shape that pisses you off?

Haha nice one, looks like you need a doctor, for real.

[MrLachyG]

Pretty obvious that if it's "raid or die" and they don't have enough raids to fill the content gaps out then it becomes "die." Stop being so literal about it. Clearly EVERY fucking xpac has had raids. It's their absolute core end-game content. Jeebus.

I mean did you ignore the second half of my post on purpose?

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But the content and scaling is done in such way that it is already taken as "normal" that you have obtained all these abilities.

Just try to imagine Ny'alotha without a single raid member having essences. Or even legendary cloak. No one would be even able to kill N'zoth.

So yeah... They are taken into math when they created 8.2 and 8.3 content.

still doesn't make them core abilities. makes them additional ones which we lose after the expansion (probably)

[Playintrafic]

It is interesting that I had to do over 50 hours of pvp for a bis pve essence. But I don't see anything too bad with it.

50hrs sheeeit I was thinking of getting blood of the enemy for hv

[BeepBoo]

BC also had only three (and a half) raid tiers:
T4: Karazhan/Gruul/Magtheridon
T5: Serpentshrine Cavern/Tempest Keep
T6: Mount Hyjal/Black Temple, plus Sunwell Plateau which dropped more Tier slots.

Raids, not raid tiers. BC had 8 raids.

[Nathanyel]

Raids, not raid tiers. BC had 8 raids.

Yeah and two of those had three bosses between them, total of 14 for T4.

T5 had 10 bosses total, which was later balanced out by Sunwell pushing T6 to 20 bosses.

So, 44 bosses total, 11 of which were 10man only, and another 6 of those were technically added to bridge the time until WotLK. That's a good number, don't get me wrong. But WoD had a total of 30 raid bosses as well.
Not saying these were "better" in any way, just pointing out it all depends on which metric you apply.

[Laysson]

We're NEVER reverting that change. Get over it.

ion, is that you ?

[BeepBoo]

Yeah and two of those had three bosses between them, total of 14 for T4.

T5 had 10 bosses total, which was later balanced out by Sunwell pushing T6 to 20 bosses.

So, 44 bosses total, 11 of which were 10man only, and another 6 of those were technically added to bridge the time until WotLK. That's a good number, don't get me wrong. But WoD had a total of 30 raid bosses as well.
Not saying these were "better" in any way, just pointing out it all depends on which metric you apply.

how about bosses across time, since the issue becomes that people burn out of content after doing it for 1-2 months (usually as far as raids are concerned anyways). Ergo, if you go longer than that without new bosses, you hemorrhage players. WOD did that the best (worst?)

[erifwodahs]

Best gear should not be locked behind mythic raids! I hate raids and best gear is there! All I want to do is pet battles! Give me 485 weapons from legendary pet battles!

[unbound]

Yeah and two of those had three bosses between them, total of 14 for T4.

T5 had 10 bosses total, which was later balanced out by Sunwell pushing T6 to 20 bosses.

So, 44 bosses total, 11 of which were 10man only, and another 6 of those were technically added to bridge the time until WotLK. That's a good number, don't get me wrong. But WoD had a total of 30 raid bosses as well.
Not saying these were "better" in any way, just pointing out it all depends on which metric you apply.

WoD also had nothing but bosses to play with as the mobs between meant nothing.

Sorry, but comparing the raiding experience just on bosses between BC and WoD is like comparing camping in your backyard to camping out in the forest. Yes, technically you got the core of the issue by setting up a tent in your backyard, but there is a *lot* more to experience than just setting up the tent.

[Laysson]

Best gear should not be locked behind mythic raids! I hate raids and best gear is there! All I want to do is pet battles! Give me 485 weapons from legendary pet battles!

Might give some reading lessons too, since you are too dumb to do it yourself.

[Elias01]

Tbh people used to get talents while levelling, but instead of that they moved half of that to max level grinds. In consequence, while levelling, people feel they're getting fuck all improvement to their character.

Why you think of essences like talents and not like gear? Becouse Blizzard clearly stated that essences are in same cathegory as trinkets(gear). Yes you can put it on your bar but in the end it does nothing but increases your power just like any piace of gear. They have no impact on your class at all. They have impact only on your damage so they can be put as reward in w/e content Blizz wants. People are just way too stupid too realize that Blizz use ap/artifacts or essences as new additional gear progression becouse old gear progression with just gear is way yoo fast and way to acessible to keep players playing dor more than couple of weeks.