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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    You do know that stat weights are dynamic right? That stat weights shift depending on what other gear you have?

    How do you even obtain stat weights without sims/spreadsheets? How do you account for set bonuses, procs?

    The only correct way to evaluate gear is to sim it. And to understand the limitations of the sim you're using.
    Stat weights are for a vacuum where you know nothinga bout what's coming, for progression

    And then you would go from there yes

    So your stat weight on magmadar is different than rag etc. And in the context of classic is almost always assuming a higher mana burden than u will face as a healer.

    Trust me i'm infinitely better at you than this, lol

    And you get there by basic math and thinking about what is more likely to keep us alive as a healer....As a dps just some basic theorcrafting should tell you all you need to know

    None of the top parsers i've ever met in classic sim lol, they know what tehy're doing beforehand. Don't need a sim to tell a lock to deathcoil when it's target is low. Should all be very obvious if you' know what you're doing.

    Sims are for checking you got the values right nothing more...And in a game like classic with people pouring over it, you generally don't have to do that. Just see it on a forum or some other platform

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxina View Post
    Which is literally what a sim sheet does for you. You put in the different variables (gear pieces) and simulate a fight with it.

    Honestly not sure if just stupid, or trolling.

    no1 who parses well sims bois, not required

    very basic game

    does literally nothing for you for any class, you should know what you're doing without a sim lol

    Maybe there is some kit that makes it rational and the average human needs help getting a handle on it, but those kits don't exist in classic.
    Last edited by Mukind; 2020-03-19 at 05:31 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    Stat weights are for a vacuum where you know nothinga bout what's coming, for progression

    And then you would go from there yes

    So your stat weight on magmadar is different than rag etc. And in the context of classic is almost always assuming a higher mana burden than u will face as a healer.

    Trust me i'm infinitely better at you than this, lol

    And you get there by basic math and thinking about what is more likely to keep us alive as a healer....As a dps just some basic theorcrafting should tell you all you need to know

    None of the top parsers i've ever met in classic sim lol, they know what tehy're doing beforehand. Don't need a sim to tell a lock to deathcoil when it's target is low. Should all be very obvious if you' know what you're doing.

    Sims are for checking you got the values right nothing more...And in a game like classic with people pouring over it, you generally don't have to do that. Just see it on a forum or some other platform

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    no1 who parses well sims bois, not required

    very basic game

    does literally nothing for you for any class, you should know what you're doing without a sim lol

    Maybe there is some kit that makes it rational and the average human needs help getting a handle on it, but those kits don't exist in classic.
    Lol.

    Sure, a lot of top parses don't need to sim because they've played pservers for 10 years and know exactly what upgrade fits what pieces, how much hit to crit to AP ratio is optimal etc.

    Because they did the math on pservers. They simmed it there, now they just play with what they learned and still figure out things like SC was a LOT better than they first thought, added the new proc values and figured out full SC beat the shit out of pre-bis for rogues, and was on par with t1. Because they did the math, which is what a sim sheet does.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  3. #23
    Exactly, assuming you have good info on values, there is absolutely no need to sim

    it may make sense in retail, not here, kits too simple

    no1 simmed it on p servers lol, you just asked the devs what the value was and tried to gauge if what they said was accurate. If so nuf said

    if they had simmed it on p servers they'd be simming here, but again no1 does that cuz if you can't figure out what you should be doing you're brain dead.

    edit - and the amount of people who played on most of the major vanilla p servers for 10 years straight are basically non existent
    Last edited by Mukind; 2020-03-19 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    Exactly, assuming you have good info on values, there is absolutely no need to sim

    it may make sense in retail, not here, kits too simple

    no1 simmed it on p servers lol, you just asked the devs what the value was and tried to gauge if what they said was accurate. If so nuf said

    if they had simmed it on p servers they'd be simming here, but again no1 does that cuz if you can't figure out what you should be doing you're brain dead.

    edit - and the amount of people who played on most of the major vanilla p servers for 10 years straight are basically non existent
    So you can, by a quick glance, determine what your stat weights are? You do know they change depending on the amount of X stat you got over Y?

    For instance, crit loses a whole lot of stat weights the second your hit gets too low and wise versa. Also, AP has different values depending on crit and hit, and if you're horde or alliance.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  5. #25
    I don't get where you get this "good players don't sim" from. Of course they do. Or they rely on information from people who did.

    Quite a lot of mechanics and proc rates aren't quite the same between pservers and classic. So you can't expect that bis lists are the same.

    For warriors the HS feature/bug has a large impact on the value of hit for example.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    I don't get where you get this "good players don't sim" from. Of course they do. Or they rely on information from people who did.

    Quite a lot of mechanics and proc rates aren't quite the same between pservers and classic. So you can't expect that bis lists are the same.

    For warriors the HS feature/bug has a large impact on the value of hit for example.
    No one sims....We had ways to do this before anyone even thought of it

    Involves basic math and just looking at ur logs

    Think canceling slam will up ur DPS? Try it no need to sim

    Most other MMO's don't even have basic coeffecients on record anywhere lol. You fly blind

    Modern wow players are so hand held can't even imagine a world where they ahd to look at their own logs and use some trial and error.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    No one sims....We had ways to do this before anyone even thought of it

    Involves basic math and just looking at ur logs

    Think canceling slam will up ur DPS? Try it no need to sim

    Most other MMO's don't even have basic coeffecients on record anywhere lol. You fly blind
    This is not strictly theorycrafting though. You are just looking for good enough dps that you like, not the optimal setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    Modern wow players are so hand held can't even imagine a world where they ahd to look at their own logs and use some trial and error.
    Modern wow got so out of hand that it's impossible to make any objective decisions without sims.

  8. #28
    The reason I want to sim my gear is to see how much dps I can do in theory. I feel that I'm underperfoming but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Blupparen View Post
    The reason I want to sim my gear is to see how much dps I can do in theory. I feel that I'm underperfoming but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
    Sims are not any good for that. Only reasonable way is to compare to other people with similar gear in warcraftlogs.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    No one sims....We had ways to do this before anyone even thought of it

    Involves basic math and just looking at ur logs

    Think canceling slam will up ur DPS? Try it no need to sim

    Most other MMO's don't even have basic coeffecients on record anywhere lol. You fly blind

    Modern wow players are so hand held can't even imagine a world where they ahd to look at their own logs and use some trial and error.
    I am pretty sure you're trolling, but I'll keep on biting.

    Take a stroll over to Fight Club, Classic Warrior discord server. There is a TON of theorycrafting and simming going on, same with every class discord. Do provide a a screenshot of some top parses that claims he/she never simmed his/her gear to get there though. By that, the person can't use ANY information out there, since it's all from simulations and theorycrafting, the person MUST have figured out by him/her self that gearing that certain way with that certain talent build would perform best.

    We're talking thousand of fights to get enough data to safely determine that X gear set with Y talents would outperform C gear with V talents. Which is why we toss the numbers into a spreadsheet that does exactly that for us, in a couple of seconds instead of months of raiding.


    That said, there is however some factors a sim can't really handle too well, like Firemaw where you have to go out to reset stats. Suddenly T1 rogue set which provides 10 more energy gains more value than a fight where you just stand and nuke (Vael for instance). These unique factors goes under experience of the fight, instead of a paper with numbers on it, and is a whole other story.
    Last edited by Noxina; 2020-03-19 at 10:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxina View Post
    I am pretty sure you're trolling, but I'll keep on biting.

    Take a stroll over to Fight Club, Classic Warrior discord server. There is a TON of theorycrafting and simming going on, same with every class discord. Do provide a a screenshot of some top parses that claims he/she never simmed his/her gear to get there though. By that, the person can't use ANY information out there, since it's all from simulations and theorycrafting, the person MUST have figured out by him/her self that gearing that certain way with that certain talent build would perform best.

    We're talking thousand of fights to get enough data to safely determine that X gear set with Y talents would outperform C gear with V talents. Which is why we toss the numbers into a spreadsheet that does exactly that for us, in a couple of seconds instead of months of raiding.


    That said, there is however some factors a sim can't really handle too well, like Firemaw where you have to go out to reset stats. Suddenly T1 rogue set which provides 10 more energy gains more value than a fight where you just stand and nuke (Vael for instance). These unique factors goes under experience of the fight, instead of a paper with numbers on it, and is a whole other story.
    I'm not saying people don't do it

    I'm saying the best in the game don't feel the need to do it.

    You may be good and parsing well, but it's not because you simmed it out, lol

    Basic math or just simple trial and error will get you there.

    NA warrior discord....Who cares?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dzd View Post
    This is not strictly theorycrafting though. You are just looking for good enough dps that you like, not the optimal setup.

    Modern wow got so out of hand that it's impossible to make any objective decisions without sims.
    Well your basic math is the theory crafting

    The actual logs are your "sims", there is no need to do an actual sim lol

    edit - and that's fair that the modern kits require it, i can imagine having some complex set of procs and not wanting to do the math....Classic has nothing like that

    edit 2 - and the acknowledgement that the kits are simple and the math is obvious says all you need to know about how people who are simming are some how optimum....If you needed the help of a sim to figure out what to do on these fights you were never gonna be at ceiling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    I don't get where you get this "good players don't sim" from. Of course they do. Or they rely on information from people who did.

    Quite a lot of mechanics and proc rates aren't quite the same between pservers and classic. So you can't expect that bis lists are the same.

    For warriors the HS feature/bug has a large impact on the value of hit for example.
    There isn't a single kit in the game that requires you to sim to know what is optimum, basic math will get you where u need to be

    It's a joke for classic healers, why would u never do that, lol

    Tanks again a joke, you can't figure out your highest TPS rotation? lol

    Who needs this? Rogues? Nope. Mages? Nope. Locks? Nope. Fury Wars/ Nope

    It's like you guys think you can't be ceiling without simming, that's not true at all. If the devs give you good info and code things correctly, it should be very easy to figure out with kits as simple as the ones we have. Without even playing teh game certainly without simming it.

    The only downside to this is you risk bad parses...But if your theorycrafting is good that should never be a problem
    Last edited by Mukind; 2020-03-21 at 10:04 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    There isn't a single kit in the game that requires you to sim to know what is optimum, basic math will get you where u need to be
    Please, do show the basic math that shows when to prioritize Heroic Strike over BT/WW, depending on your main-hand weapon speed and your off-hand/HoJ/Windfury rage income.

    Because all the fury guides are telling to ignore that and just use HS when BT/WW is on cd and you got over 60~ rage. Wich is wrong.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    But if your theorycrafting is good
    Yeah, we call that simming.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Yeah, we call that simming.
    No theorcrafting is just basic math, lol

    No sims

    I knew what the best healer in classic wow was after reading their abils and talents...And exactly how to play it after reading the coeffecients

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Please, do show the basic math that shows when to prioritize Heroic Strike over BT/WW, depending on your main-hand weapon speed and your off-hand/HoJ/Windfury rage income.

    Because all the fury guides are telling to ignore that and just use HS when BT/WW is on cd and you got over 60~ rage. Wich is wrong.
    if i was a warrior i would....But not being a warrior idc so no

    if you wanna ask me questions about hpala....I can answer those in great detail

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    Brah i'm an American nationalist

    American troops are the only thing preventing Europeans from going back to slitting eachotehrs throats over petty land disputes

    But the reality is, their MMO players are better htan ours. Just like actors coming from other anglo states, MMO's have a stigma in the states they do not have in scandanvia. Which is why they are so much better than us

    MMOs are teh drama club of gaming in the states. We don't send our best and brightest
    wat? .

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    No theorcrafting is just basic math, lol

    No sims

    I knew what the best healer in classic wow was after reading their abils and talents...And exactly how to play it after reading the coeffecients
    What is this, we are in the bragging forum? I could hardly believe that you are able to find the stairs out of your basement by yourself, the way that you write.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    What is this, we are in the bragging forum? I could hardly believe that you are able to find the stairs out of your basement by yourself, the way that you write.
    No it's just the obviuos, no competent player needs to sim anything

    I'm not some genius, which means you should be able to do it too

    WHOOOOOSH

    Yea bro i'm eitehr bragging or making the point that anyone could do that and simming is for plebs. You decide

    edit - and the projection, hahaha, ok mister isn't cognitiviely capable enough to theory craft the proper move in classic pve. Hahaha, yea i'm sure you're really doing well in the market. /s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    wat? .
    ?

    What part was unclear? lol

    please spare me your pleb take on the geopolitical situation in europe....It's been burning in war for a millenia straight

    the drama club bit will only make sense to americans...So ignore it, i doubt they call it drama club in the EU
    Last edited by Mukind; 2020-03-22 at 08:50 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    No it's just the obviuos, no competent player needs to sim anything
    So you DO sim?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    No it's just the obviuos, no competent player needs to sim anything

    I'm not some genius, which means you should be able to do it too

    WHOOOOOSH

    Yea bro i'm eitehr bragging or making the point that anyone could do that and simming is for plebs. You decide

    edit - and the projection, hahaha, ok mister isn't cognitiviely capable enough to theory craft the proper move in classic pve. Hahaha, yea i'm sure you're really doing well in the market. /s

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    ?

    What part was unclear? lol

    please spare me your pleb take on the geopolitical situation in europe....It's been burning in war for a millenia straight

    the drama club bit will only make sense to americans...So ignore it, i doubt they call it drama club in the EU
    wat....? seek help, get some meds bud

  20. #40
    Yea ok bud, remember your standardized tests

    lol

    idiots wondering why reading confuses them the same as it did in school....

    Pro tip bois, not being able to understand some ones comment generally means you're an idiot if everyone who reads it doesn't find it incoherent. Maybe don't broadcast that

    wtf....hahah

    the lack of self awareness is palpable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    So you DO sim?
    no im a paladin healer, why would i ever need to sim/ lol

    I know what my max hps rotation is, and i also know my mana efficiency hierarchy on my spells. And i know when to dispel

    What would be the point of simming? Healing is a cooperative endeavor especially with limited mana and i know how to hit my buttons

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