Complete Class Rework

[Kralljin]

Dude, you claimed you'd explain how to bring back "class fantasy".

Yeah, because it was obviously meant as a quick overview, not an indepth essay.
To give some insight where those classes fill the fantasy of the heavy armored fighter archetype that can sustain a lot of damage but isn't exactly agile, in comparison to the rogue / assassin archetype that favors mobility and control over defense.

Instead you said all Plate classes needed nerfed mobility, and then whinged about Rogues and DHes a bit.

Has it ever occured to you that Plate are already slow but aren't tanky in comparison to rogues?
Could that be just a possibility?

Like seriously, read over my post, i said "slow but tanky", not "delete the mobility they have".

[Pandragon]

Right now I'm hoping the next class revamp they do is turning one of the rogue specs into a ranged spec.

[MeTaL GuArD]

I voted No Rework, but hate the fact that they chose to keep THESE iterations of classes. Obviously, many people enjoy the current ones, but I, for example, miss the Legion BM Hunter that just spammed Dire Beast onto the target instead of a weird DoT that needed a specifically-worded tooltip to even tie into the class in any way. Fire Mage has been utterly butchered in BfA, shoving Legion legendary and Artifact into the talent tree and getting rid of options that could have very well stayed where they were. Arcane became a hollow shell of itself without the Artifact and the passives it provided. The only classes I honestly enjoyed enough to play full-time this expansion were DH and Warrior.

[goldentforce]

I just think its ridiculous to think that classes in their current state wouldn't significantly better from iteration. I do not think the work of parts of wod/legion/bfa was pointless in cleaning was class identity and pruning down rotations but I really don't like specs being left like this (and they were in BFA). They went into BFA thinking they had to barely do any class changes after the removal of legendaries and artifact weapons and introducing the gcd back to key abilities, which was just ridiculous and obviously they had to do some work really quick in bfa to try to fix that. I mean they couldn't even work on shaman because there was no designer for shaman.

You don't need to overhaul every class and spec again but every single spec has underused talents, boring talents, potential for new and unique gameplay abilities. I think the issue is any time put into classes and specs right now is just used on these temporary power systems or "rented" power which is continuing in SL with covenants, soul conduits, and legendaries. I just hate this because it means instead of improving classes with each expansion you are just making an end game system, which in my eyes is less important than the actual classes. Its just this endless loop of given abilities/interactions/effects and either they are good (legion) and players end up missing them at the end when they are deleted, or the abilities are bad (bfa) and the expansion content feels worse. There are flaws when the system succeeds and fails.

Classes should always be moving forward, there should always be room for improvement or new ideas that can be implemented to keep classes feel new and fresh and dynamic, and them not willing to put the time into classes shows either the team is just not big enough, or they are purposely going down a path I don't like, and it seems a repeat of BFA class design, and an extension legions. Legion at least had the time spent on the classes when the temporary power systems were added, but BFA did not, and it seems that will be the case again. I'm not saying the classes are doomed, there can be plenty of cool stuff in the covenants/conduits and legendaries that classes will feel fresh and fun. Also im sure a lot of players will be complacent to a degree with just getting old spells back through the unpruning, which in my eyes is less about gameplay design and more about trying to patch a mistake they made with an easy player win (these abilities already exist and are just getting readded).

[Zelk]

They did an expansion without major class overhauls. It's the worst the game has ever been, and it's now desperate for change. Genuinely don't understand the people who are so adverse to change that they'd prefer the current state to the unknown.

[Oakshana]

But dammit, give me back ranged survival in some way.

I would bet all odds you will never see ranged survival again. Blizzard will die on that hill before they admit they shouldn't have changed it.

[threads]

Most of the specs don't need more than some cleaning up.

But dammit, give me back ranged survival in some way.

hell yea. melee hunters were the worst idea in probably the whole game.

[tru]

arms war so fun between auto atks and the mastery doing most of the damage... seems fine and totally fun

[docterfreeze]

Every time a class/spec is reworked it splits the players of that class/spec. Longtime players of a class have gone through MANY different versions of their class, some being very different than others. If they preferred a previous theme they're SoL because it only existed for one expansion or one patch. What should happen is specs should have a consistent theme with one or two new abilities that fit the theme, and one or two abilities removed per expansion that have become outdated and make the class overcomplicated. That sounds like what they were trying to do in WoD/legion, but they missed the mark by a wide margin and removed core class abilities.

[Divinex]

Nah how about we do major overhauls every 3 expansions.

[Itisamuh]

I would rather stuff only get revamped when needed, and it should be done in patches rather than only in expansions. Cause on the one hand it really sucks when your preferred class or spec is garbage and you know it probably will be for at least two more years, but on the other hand it also sucks when you love a class or spec and it gets revamped in the new expansion for no reason other than for the sake of revamping.

[Skildar]

I don't know about all the classes and specs, but shaman definitely deserves an overhaul.

Blizzard philosophy in wow is to iterate on classes and specs until they reach a point where they feel like the current gameplay mechanics have changed too much for this class to continue to exist the way that it does and then change it through an intense overhaul.

Though I'm quite concerned on the philosophhy presented for shadowlands. To add back some class spells and mechanics can be interested but if an overhaul isn't introduced at the same time, then I'm having a hard time picturing how it could be integrated in the core rotation of every specs of a class.
Warlock and Paladins are the perfect example for this issue. They want to re-introduce auras when it is currently part of the holy paladins defining kit.

I wish they could do developer notes for this like they heve done in Legion. But there was a lot of communication and very early for Legion. Whereas shadowlands has left the community in the dark since its announcement...

[MrLachyG]

dunno about complete class reworks but a lot is changing next expansion; we will get abilities at an earlier level and old abilities are coming back.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know about all the classes and specs, but shaman definitely deserves an overhaul.

Blizzard philosophy in wow is to iterate on classes and specs until they reach a point where they feel like the current gameplay mechanics have changed too much for this class to continue to exist the way that it does and then change it through an intense overhaul.

Though I'm quite concerned on the philosophhy presented for shadowlands. To add back some class spells and mechanics can be interested but if an overhaul isn't introduced at the same time, then I'm having a hard time picturing how it could be integrated in the core rotation of every specs of a class.
Warlock and Paladins are the perfect example for this issue. They want to re-introduce auras when it is currently part of the holy paladins defining kit.

I wish they could do developer notes for this like they heve done in Legion. But there was a lot of communication and very early for Legion. Whereas shadowlands has left the community in the dark since its announcement...

Alpha will be soon. key for Blizzard is to not rush this shit, let the Alpha/Beta cycle be 7-8 months. a December release will be ok, raid kicks off in mid Jan - all good

[Ludvig]

Only if it's needed. It currently is (or better yet, class reverts).

[Skildar]

dunno about complete class reworks but a lot is changing next expansion; we will get abilities at an earlier level and old abilities are coming back.

- - - Updated - - -



Alpha will be soon. key for Blizzard is to not rush this shit, let the Alpha/Beta cycle be 7-8 months. a December release will be ok, raid kicks off in mid Jan - all good

I don't really care for alpha, honestly I'm more interested in their initial goals and design philosophy than what alpha can show us. Because at least I would understand why the class I enjoy didn't hit the mark -if it happens) and what changes I can expect them to bring to the class when the expansion hits live

[~Valen~]

Absolutely want major reworks every expansion. Makes trying classes fresh again, including levelling them up. 'Why work something that works' is a wrong perspective imo.

[Shinrael]

I always love seeing the new class overhauls and changes. They really freshen up the experience and as a player who tends to play tons of alts, it's a welcome thing. On the other hand, I really miss my WotLK Retri pala class design, MoP warrior design, Cata Blood DK design, Legion Spriest design and others.... in that order of significance. So I understand the people who don't like the constant overhauls and I understand that the overhauls are not a good thing for the game in the long-term.

PS: Look at it from the bright side - if they stop overhauling the classes every expansion and stop having to rebalance everything every few years, eventually they should have more freedom to make more new classes and roles.

[Casperite]

It absolutely isn't, you just have to put some aspect relevant to the gameplay behind it.

Take the melee branch for example.
Classes like Warriors, DK or Paladin should be the tanky but slow guys, regardless of specs.
They should have more HP than any other Melee, more Armor (or rather, Armor should be more relevant in both PvE and PvP) but as a trade off be less mobile.

Rogues are quite frankly tankier than any of those classes in PvE, because they have the same HP, alongside tools such as Feint, CoS and cheat death + armor matters jackshit in this game outside of the tank role.
Maybe Rogues also shouldn't be able to dish huge amounts of AoE damage, because a sneaky class should rather focus on ST damage than excel during huge AoE pulls.

Same goes for DH, they're super fast, super tanky and bring more support tools (Chaos Touch & Darkness) to a raid than a Shaman or Paladin...because reasons.

Maybe healing classes such as Priest, Shaman or Monk shouldn't have damage reducing CD's on their hybrid specs, but rather self healing CD's (because they have a healing spec, after all).
Play some random bg's and take a look at the healing done of non Healing specs, you'll find Warlocks, Dk's and so forth, but something like SP or Enhance won't be among the "top" nonhealers.

Maybe a class / spec that is famously known as glasscannon shouldn't have the same HP, a decent absorb on a 30sec cd, an Immunity and cheat death proc.
A spec that has this sort of defensive tools isn't just a glasscannon anymore.

You know, take some very simple, straight forward RPG elements and put them back into those classes.
Think about where a class should be strong and weak based on the fantasy that this class represents.

So you want to bring back class fantasy by making them generally the same few groups? Your response sounds more like homogenization than unique class identity.

[Razion]

While visual upgrades I think are unavoidable as graphics get better I think core fantasy, function, and ability priorities are locked in now with if any very few exceptions (and I yet don't have any strong feelings on specs being diluted by returning abilities, so that'll have to wait).

[Niter]

Biggest change I could ask for would be allowing Survival Hunters to dual wield

I'd like that. Actually, they should find a way to have all classes be able to choose two one-handed weapons or one two-hander. I was never a big fan of playing Hunters myself because I quite like melee, but there was something extremely cool about seeing Hunters carrying 2 melee weapons and a bow. It was super cool and fit the 'ranger' vibe way better than what we currently have.