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  1. #121
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brenz View Post
    Shadowlands delayed to 2021 due to the pandemic.
    You saw it here first.
    literally just over a week ago they very specifically said it will still be 2020.
    but if it somehow gets delayed for such that is a good thing, keeping their staff safe, and giving the expansion more time to make sure its right.

  2. #122
    Another reason that shadowlands is underhyped is the "fatigue syndrome" of past expansions.

    People are jaded now, they dont ignore the subtle details blizzard promises then fails to deliver, they get cynical when they used to be complicit.

    Blizzard used to devlier quality content and then it made a trend of delivering terrible expansions for years, years.

    WoD onwards its been a downward spiral, Legion was only redeemed by 7.3 because its previous legendary RNG farm and other artifact power grinds were terrible. They fixed Legion but only fixed, they didnt exactly deliver a stellar epic experience, the only good thing to come from legion was the demon hunter.

    BFA delivered "subraces" in the form of rediculasly long grinds, 4 were unlocked immediatley as a promotion but only if you grinded reps that are now completley irrelevent in BFA.

    BFA's own content, warfronts, island expeditions became memes and bad game design, the faction war became a meme of "morally grey" propotions almost as cringey as "savage world" promotions for WoD.

    Blizzards latest expense is making less content and longer delays, and instead of excusing it with better quality content in the meantime, its just less content. People are trying desperately to beergoggle and defend blizzard on this but the reality is they put more EFFORT into a OLDER version of the game that you could for 'years' play on private servers to experience, just so people subbed for it instead.

    And yet the raids, dungeons and content in it is largley the same as modern wow...

    Its no longer the consumers fault for expectations, its blizzards job now to deliver something so stellar in quality that it destroys any doubt that they were going down hill. I for one was looking forwards to D4 and OW2 but I really couldnt give a damn about Shadowlands, and yet, after WC3 reforged and how well recieved that was...

    Honestly...

    Id say your looking at a very limited success at best with a team that has clearly gotten lazier over the years and smaller, definatley smaller because the amount of content comming out is showing it.

    Lets look at the difference between WoD to Shadowlands:

    Examples:

    WoD continent is 7 zones wide, they added pathfinder to slow down peoples free movement of the games world and because whiners said it broke immersion. Then they decided not to add the promised 3 zones that were supposed to come with patches, Ogre Isles, Faralohn and the Ogre Continent itself aswell as other regions of Spires and more that never got added or even impliamented.

    So much of WoD was actually taken out before being put in, and they had the gaul to test black rock foundry, then release it in patch 6.1 calling it content despite the fact beta testers were playing it LONG before that.

    The same thing was done with legion, Suramar raid was the same thing, 7.0 beta, it was playable for raiders, they removed it, impliamented it later under the pretext of "content".

    This nonsense is 'exactly' why I stopped trusting blizzard. Adding insult to injury, Broken Shores was 5 zones as opposed to 7, smaller than its WoD counterpart, and with less replayability, at least the bonus quests in WoD are fast and easy to plough through.

    Then you have BFA, 2 seperate continents with flying added after one of the continents (Zandalar) becomes LITERALLY irrelevent after 8.2 with no content being important to do after the patches.

    Warfronts were meant to be a patch cycle thing, we were meant to get 1 per patch as an alternative to raiding and they were, asthetically interesting, the idea of getting racial armour was pretty cool, but quickly fell apart when they basically added heritidge armor which made racial armour pointless.

    Blizzard screwed themselves with a number of chaotic, inconsitant ideas, none of which stay more than a patch in relevence. When was the last time you used benthic gear or touched a shadow/light augment in your artifact slot?

    Blizzard cant focus on what matters, story, less raids, more story, more deeper elements of that story with larger zones that focus on world building and saga expanding as opposed to endless 4 tier raids that become stale after the first 2 difficulties with only a vocal minority even caring to touch mythic or finish it.

    Stale mythic+ dungeon farms that are now completley boring and stagnant, pvp that has lost its charm in the death of old things like Wintergrasp or TBC's Nagrand or old AV in its better prime prior to Korrak's Revenge farming.

    And no its not nostalgia or hating the current game, its saying they took away things that literally worked perfectly fine, added things that didnt need to be there, then took away things that didnt work after one patch because people were not happy.

    They cant seem to grasp that the key to a long term success is commitment to an ideal, not just constantly trying things and then throwing in the towel.

    And as for Ion himself?

    Please...

    Please...

    Its time, the guy needs to go back to what he did best, keep him in raid design by all means but he is *NOT* lead designer material, after 3 expansions its evident.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brenz View Post
    Shadowlands delayed to 2021 due to the pandemic.
    You saw it here first.
    if it does delay Shadowlands that's a good thing. it means that they are taking the time to do it right and not rush it just to meet the 2020 deadline. although I can still see them getting it out by 2020 - if Alpha is released soon, runs for April & May (was going to put a Walking Dead reference here but decided against it) then Beta runs from start of June to end of November - prepatch hits start of November, expansion launches either end of November or early December and first raid opens up early Jan. that is literally the 2020 best case scenario right now

  4. #124
    I'm not hyped for Shadowlands for a number of reasons, and I might seem very negative but I'm more in the camp of "if I keep my expectations very very low, I have a greater chance of being pleasantly surprised". This mindset was how I went into Legion and I was indeed pleasantly surprised. Sadly BfA destroyed all the good will Blizzard earned in Legion and put me back into a mindset only slightly better than I had in WoD. So here's why I am not hyped:

    1) The WoW dev design philosophy currently sucks - infinite progression grinds, layers upon layers of RNG in multiple areas of the game, rental powers that get tossed in the bin with the next xpac, the dev definition of "alt friendly" being far and away inadequate, and generally content design not respecting the player's time. Some form of the corruption system is going forward into SL. Some form of rental power is going to exist in SL. Some form of neverending grind that has to be done on each character individually is going to exist in SL (don't let their claim of no AP grind fool you - what they really meant was that the AP grind will simply have a weekly cap, but you're still going to have to do it every week on every toon or suffer the consequences). I have yet to see any indication that Blizzard have learned anything from BfA that might improve Shadowlands' design.

    2) Blizzcon Shadowlands Info - The stage at which we saw Shadowlands developement as far as what we saw at Blizzcon was concerning. Blizzard intends to get Shadowlands out before year's end. I believe they intend to meet that release schedule regardless of whether the product is actually finished... and given the current covid-19 situation, it's more likely things get cut or shoved out the door in a poor state just to meet that release date goal.

    3) Shadowlands seems a bit Feature-light to me - Torghast, Covenants, and Customization were the only real new features to stand out to me and Covenants just seem like a marriage of reputations + artifacts. Torghast seems like a legit feature and I am eager to see how it actually plays but I worry that it'll just end up being another "beat the clock/you must do this every week on every character or fall behind" content. Customization is also a legit feature to me, but I don't actually get any because I main an allied race and they've basically told people playing them to fuck off. Hell, they couldn't even bother to give the allied race Death Knights a few "undead" skin options like the standard races have. There's also no new class and new allied races seem unlikely from what we've seen so far. I don't view the level-squish as a feature.

    I'm basically banking on my "Debbie Downer" mindset to make whatever Shadowlands actually ends up being into something wonderful compared to what I am expecting. It's sad, but I've been let down too many times by Blizzard to trust them to put out something fun and quality anymore.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2020-03-31 at 08:08 PM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I'm not hyped for Shadowlands for a number of reasons, and I might seem very negative but I'm more in the camp of "if I keep my expectations very very low, I have a greater chance of being pleasantly surprised". This mindset was how I went into Legion and I was indeed pleasantly surprised. Sadly BfA destroyed all the good will Blizzard earned in Legion and put me back into a mindset only slightly better than I had in WoD.
    For me it was the exactly opposite. Legion made me quit the game. BFA (after I returned in 8.2) has been very good so far.

  6. #126
    Wait there is a new expansion coming out?

  7. #127
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    man i wish i had your powers of fortune telling, if only.
    Turns out you don't need supernatural powers to predict the obvious.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    What makes it fun for most people?
    That it is progressing your charecter.
    have you ever wondered why clickers and tycoon games are SOOOO popular? because of the constant progression.
    speaking of that i have a craving for rollar coaster tycoon...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Can you tell me please
    where in legion did you have the scourge
    where in legion did you have the angelic landscapes
    where in legion did you have the transelvania vampire scape
    Ok valshara and ardenweld are pretty similiar, you got ONE


    aalso "retconned large swaths of lore" mind explaining these "large amounts of lore"
    Revendreth looks A LOT like a portions of Stormheim. The angelic one looks a lot like Mac'Aree recolor from the trailers.

    Ohhhhh boy and the lore retcons. Here we go:
    1) Kil'jaedan and the Nathrezim were who originally created the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne. Now all of a sudden they apparently stole the items from the Shadowlands.
    2) The Shadowlands themselves were always described as being a mirror realm of the real world, albeit shadowy and foggy. Now all of a sudden there's vibrant lands there, completely disregarding everything that was shown to us in quests and such up until now.
    3) Sylvanas prevented soul from moving on every time she raised someone from the dead. It was why the Lich King and Bwonsamdi were pissed at her. She was disrupting the balance by not allowing souls to move on. But now apparently she's been funneling souls SOMEHOW to the Jailer since Edge of Night. It is a gigantic retcon that throws away lore that was established as recent as BfA.
    4) The Helm of Domination was just a tool for controlling the undead that were created by Frostmourne. Both artifacts were equally powerful. Frostmourne was shattered in ICC and all it did was release all the trapped souls. It's makes zero fucking sense that breaking the Helm in a similar fashion would a rip a hole in reality to the Shadowlands.
    5)Apparently the Lich King was created as a warden for the Jailer. This makes absolutely no fucking sense because the Lich King was created originally to be the controlling force of the Scourge to aid in the Legion's invasion of Azeroth.

    That's just 5 points that aggressively retcons the lore.

  9. #129
    Meh. While I hope everything turns out well and I expect to be interested closer to launch , there's about no familiar strings left to tie up that i can get hyped to see. Gonna tie up the sylvannas plot? Wowweeee. Not really gonna bother with speculation or launch details this time around, especially after blizzard showing everything will just have to be changed mid expac anyway because they don't properly listen to feedback. Plus classic is in full swing, keeping people busy

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    For me it was the exactly opposite. Legion made me quit the game. BFA (after I returned in 8.2) has been very good so far.
    Different strokes for different folks I guess.

  11. #131
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Revendreth looks A LOT like a portions of Stormheim. The angelic one looks a lot like Mac'Aree recolor from the trailers.

    Ohhhhh boy and the lore retcons. Here we go:
    1) Kil'jaedan and the Nathrezim were who originally created the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne. Now all of a sudden they apparently stole the items from the Shadowlands.
    2) The Shadowlands themselves were always described as being a mirror realm of the real world, albeit shadowy and foggy. Now all of a sudden there's vibrant lands there, completely disregarding everything that was shown to us in quests and such up until now.
    3) Sylvanas prevented soul from moving on every time she raised someone from the dead. It was why the Lich King and Bwonsamdi were pissed at her. She was disrupting the balance by not allowing souls to move on. But now apparently she's been funneling souls SOMEHOW to the Jailer since Edge of Night. It is a gigantic retcon that throws away lore that was established as recent as BfA.
    4) The Helm of Domination was just a tool for controlling the undead that were created by Frostmourne. Both artifacts were equally powerful. Frostmourne was shattered in ICC and all it did was release all the trapped souls. It's makes zero fucking sense that breaking the Helm in a similar fashion would a rip a hole in reality to the Shadowlands.
    5)Apparently the Lich King was created as a warden for the Jailer. This makes absolutely no fucking sense because the Lich King was created originally to be the controlling force of the Scourge to aid in the Legion's invasion of Azeroth.

    That's just 5 points that aggressively retcons the lore.
    1. Revendreth looks like portions of stormheim? Can you show me?
    2. Bastion looks like mac'aree? Cause its got yellow grass in places, is that literally fucking it?


    1) No, this is not a retcon, they made it using the powers of the nathrezim, what we find in shadowlands is where the nathrezim get their power, and where they learned to make these artifacts, they still made the helm and frostmourne, that is still true in shadowlands, but the crafting that madfe them, originated in the shadowlands.

    2) Where they? we have had them described that way, but also as an entirely different realm. and we are not exploring THE ENTIRE shadowlands, only a few of these sections

    3) no, this is not true, you seem to have a weird understanding of lore. She has been stopping souls from goign to their respective areas, as in bwomsombdi and the lich king. but they are BEFORE the shadowlands, think of them like a coin sorter, the first level (the outer world) sorts out the souls, those who made deals with bwomsamdi, or are slain by soul sucking weapons. or are raised before the souls can move on. Then below is where all the ones that are missed go to, and this is the shadowlands.


    syvlanas is not "directing them somehow to the jailor" sometime recently death itself has been broken, and now ALL SOULS that do not get sorted out at the start, when they reach the shadowlands arebeing dumped in the maw. this is not a gigantic retcon, this is you not understanding the story.

    4) yes, it still is just a tool for controlling the undead, but how does it do that? by having a MASSIVE connection to the shadowlands, able to stop souls and raise them, BEFORE they are sent to the shadowlands.

    A small outlit in a house is not the entire power of your house, but hook a car battery up to it and suddenly your fuse will blow off.

    5) this is not entirely confirmed, if you got a source of this go ahead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzikostabot View Post
    What should people be hyped about in Shadowlands?
    Why are you ban evading?

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzikostabot View Post
    Why shouldnt i?
    cause you will just get IP banned.
    LOL that was quick.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Revendreth looks A LOT like a portions of Stormheim. The angelic one looks a lot like Mac'Aree recolor from the trailers.

    Ohhhhh boy and the lore retcons. Here we go:
    1) Kil'jaedan and the Nathrezim were who originally created the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne. Now all of a sudden they apparently stole the items from the Shadowlands.
    2) The Shadowlands themselves were always described as being a mirror realm of the real world, albeit shadowy and foggy. Now all of a sudden there's vibrant lands there, completely disregarding everything that was shown to us in quests and such up until now.
    3) Sylvanas prevented soul from moving on every time she raised someone from the dead. It was why the Lich King and Bwonsamdi were pissed at her. She was disrupting the balance by not allowing souls to move on. But now apparently she's been funneling souls SOMEHOW to the Jailer since Edge of Night. It is a gigantic retcon that throws away lore that was established as recent as BfA.
    4) The Helm of Domination was just a tool for controlling the undead that were created by Frostmourne. Both artifacts were equally powerful. Frostmourne was shattered in ICC and all it did was release all the trapped souls. It's makes zero fucking sense that breaking the Helm in a similar fashion would a rip a hole in reality to the Shadowlands.
    5)Apparently the Lich King was created as a warden for the Jailer. This makes absolutely no fucking sense because the Lich King was created originally to be the controlling force of the Scourge to aid in the Legion's invasion of Azeroth.

    That's just 5 points that aggressively retcons the lore.
    yeah, it's garbage.

    especially the part with demons.

    they were COMPLETELY destroyed with the last 2 or 3 expansions.

  14. #134
    Well what we have seen so far is no new classes, no new professions and no new significant gameplay mechanics.
    So that kinda kills the hype since it more looks like a major patch for Legion after Argus.
    Also a lot of people are fed up with sylvanas and her boytoy being the center of the story.
    And the story seems really convoluted with a lot of retcons and illogical changes - worst of all it feels boring (imho).

    When the data stops being encrypted we can see more.
    Until then the only neat thing are that the quest zones look nice.
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2020-03-31 at 08:55 PM.
    BfA = second worst product ever made by Blizzard.
    War3 Reforged took the title for worst product.

  15. #135
    I was already predicting shadowlands releasing in January 2021, but corona pretty much guarantees it now. I wouldn't be hyped for almost any games being developed during this period because it will be hard to collaborate and communicate as a team effectively. Remember what happened to titan? Everyone did their own thing and didnt communicate to each other. They all did their own pet projects and then when they finally decided to come together and share what they all worked on, the game was a big mess that didnt make sense so they had to scrap the whole thing and just implement the PVP mode as overwatch.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2020-03-31 at 08:55 PM.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Dungo View Post
    Was it how it was marketed? Was it Sylvanas? Why is it taking so long to see an alpha or beta? Maybe Blizzard is keeping it under wraps for now because they have some huge, exciting announcements for it.. ? (Doubt it.)

    Was it how it was marketed?: Ofcourse it is

    Why is it taking so long to see an alpha or beta?: They were very far behind, and many people have been fired/replaced

    Maybe Blizzard is keeping it under wraps for now because they have some huge, exciting announcements for it.. ? (Doubt it.): Hopefully.. But they havnt really showed anything, so who knows.

  17. #137
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Well what we have seen so far is no new classes, no new professions and no new significant gameplay mechanics.
    So that kinda kills the hype since it more looks like a major patch for Legion.
    Also a lot of people are fed up with sylvanas and her boytoy being the center of the story.

    When the data stops being encrypted we can see more.
    Until then the only neat thing are that the quest zones look nice.
    I rather they make the current classes actyually fun, instead of just adding another class.
    No new profession? yes big suprise, we havent had one since cataclysm...
    no new significant gameplay mechanics? What? what do you deem "significant gameplay mechanics" you got any example?

    but yeah, we need alpha playable soon.tm

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by This One Time At Bandcamp View Post
    Was it how it was marketed?: Ofcourse it is

    Why is it taking so long to see an alpha or beta?: They were very far behind, and many people have been fired/replaced

    Maybe Blizzard is keeping it under wraps for now because they have some huge, exciting announcements for it.. ? (Doubt it.): Hopefully.. But they havnt really showed anything, so who knows.
    "Many fired/replaced"
    Uhh what? who were fired/replaced?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dungo View Post
    Why is no one hyped for Shadowlands? Most expansions are normally talked to death before they come out but Shadowlands seems to be the exception.

    There's so few videos about it.
    There's such little online discussion about it.
    There are next to ZERO Blueposts about the expansion.
    Even on these forums, you can tell discussion is at an all time low. At this rate, Shadowlands will be BfA 3.0, just as Bellular predicted.


    Was it how it was marketed? Was it Sylvanas? Why is it taking so long to see an alpha or beta? Maybe Blizzard is keeping it under wraps for now because they have some huge, exciting announcements for it.. ? (Doubt it.)
    Probably cuz multiple sources have cited that Shadowlands is literally BFA 2.0. SO yeah, id link them but u can just google it and im sure it will pop right up.

  19. #139
    Shadowlands brings nothing of note to the table, there is no hype because there should be no hype

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. Revendreth looks like portions of stormheim? Can you show me?
    2. Bastion looks like mac'aree? Cause its got yellow grass in places, is that literally fucking it?


    1) No, this is not a retcon, they made it using the powers of the nathrezim, what we find in shadowlands is where the nathrezim get their power, and where they learned to make these artifacts, they still made the helm and frostmourne, that is still true in shadowlands, but the crafting that madfe them, originated in the shadowlands.

    2) Where they? we have had them described that way, but also as an entirely different realm. and we are not exploring THE ENTIRE shadowlands, only a few of these sections

    3) no, this is not true, you seem to have a weird understanding of lore. She has been stopping souls from goign to their respective areas, as in bwomsombdi and the lich king. but they are BEFORE the shadowlands, think of them like a coin sorter, the first level (the outer world) sorts out the souls, those who made deals with bwomsamdi, or are slain by soul sucking weapons. or are raised before the souls can move on. Then below is where all the ones that are missed go to, and this is the shadowlands.


    syvlanas is not "directing them somehow to the jailor" sometime recently death itself has been broken, and now ALL SOULS that do not get sorted out at the start, when they reach the shadowlands arebeing dumped in the maw. this is not a gigantic retcon, this is you not understanding the story.

    4) yes, it still is just a tool for controlling the undead, but how does it do that? by having a MASSIVE connection to the shadowlands, able to stop souls and raise them, BEFORE they are sent to the shadowlands.

    A small outlit in a house is not the entire power of your house, but hook a car battery up to it and suddenly your fuse will blow off.

    5) this is not entirely confirmed, if you got a source of this go ahead.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why are you ban evading?
    1) In the original lore, Kil'jaedan and the Nathrezim personally created both items. There was NEVER mention of the Shadowlands.

    2) There are numerous quests where you go to the Shadowlands, one such example being the original DK starter area. It was also established that whenever you were corpse running, you were in the Shadowlands. They're retconning all of that for this dumpster fire of an exapansion.

    3) That is absolutely NOT what the lore was. Did you even do the Vol'jin questline? It's said that Sylvanas raising someone traps the soul in the body and doesn't it allow it to move on which was upsetting the balance. It's why Bwonsamdi asked Tal'anji to kill her in return for getting rid of her father's deal.

    4) Your comment about the Helm is literally the recent retconned lore.

    5) It was confirmed in a recent Blizzard interview where apparently the Lich King was meant to be put in place to prevent the Jailer from becoming too powerful. Which is a gigantic retcon.

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