How will BfA be remembered?

[Rogalicus]

what is it about WOD pvp that people hate so much?

Trashran probably.

[kaminaris]

I feel its only a vocal minority that hates MoP. It didn't get the hype cause it was pandas, but for those that played the entire expansion, it was an awesome expansion. We didn't have m+ back then, but we had extremely fun classes that you could just have fun with in pvp.

Classes were broken, items were broken (like assurance of consequence, Rune of Re-Origination), blizzard never bothered to fix that. Vengeance might have been good idea but it went pants on head retarded with tanks being top dpses.

Disci priests were damn OP turning raiding into snoozefest for other healers. Affliction warlocks being unquestionable kings on sustaned AOE, bm hunters deleting people from arenas, retarded instagibb macros, full rotation macros, timeless isle being coin-farm, gigantic content draught at the end of SoO. Boring mobs farming for cloak. Farming frogs for coins. And a tons of bugs.

It's not about "pandas" its about remembering how it was back then without rose tinted glasses.

[Mythicalchicken]

I think some of the hate for BfA is overstated, tbh. It had a lot going for it; I dug Island Expos, the mainlands, general refinement of the quantum leap between WoD and Legion.

I already think of BfA as WoW's teenage puberty growth spurt: it's trying to do more sophisticated storytelling and not quite there yet (though miles ahead of, say, Cata, which was juvenile genre fiction), and a little overambitious with warfronts (though an awesome idea) and it actually made me interested in PvP for the first time in my entire WoW career, but it definitely puttered out toward the end with system after system and one of the most awkward transitions to end game raid ever.

When they say they learned something though, I'll give them benefit of the doubt with Shadowlands. Legion restored a lot of faith.

[Tronski]

As we all know, most people hate BfA. The expansion is universally panned and hated.

But, how will it be remembered? Will people still call it the worst expansion ever created? Will people say it was the peak of WoW (LOL)?

I'd love to hear your opinion

I reject the notion that WoD was worse than Cata, Legion or BfA. The only bad thing about WoD was the long waits for new content. Everything else was fresh and great.

[nyc81991]

BFA is by far the worst expansion. I've never seen so many people I know stop playing so soon into an expansion. If it wasn't for Classic WoW it would be the longest I haven't played WoW ever.

[ro9ue]

Bad, but not as bad as WoD.

[Tronski]

I think some of the hate for BfA is overstated, tbh. It had a lot going for it; I dug Island Expos, the mainlands, general refinement of the quantum leap between WoD and Legion.

I already think of BfA as WoW's teenage puberty growth spurt: it's trying to do more sophisticated storytelling and not quite there yet (though miles ahead of, say, Cata, which was juvenile genre fiction), and a little overambitious with warfronts (though an awesome idea) and it actually made me interested in PvP for the first time in my entire WoW career, but it definitely puttered out toward the end with system after system and one of the most awkward transitions to end game raid ever.

When they say they learned something though, I'll give them benefit of the doubt with Shadowlands. Legion restored a lot of faith.

Sadly, a MMO cannot survive on storytelling alone.
Yes, both Legion and BfA had great storytelling. You get immersed and you enjoy it. On your first time through. Second-Nth character has to sit through it. Always one step back before the next two steps forward with Blizzard, as if by devious design.

Every time they get something really right, it's gone within two expacs, usually one. With BfA they once again threw alt friendliness out of the Windows, Only to once again give it back to us as a "we heard you"-gift later.

The problem is that none of the content in BfA had any longevity in itself. Everything just boils down to timed zerg-fests for AP(And a weekly chest), as gating before you can pvp or raid - the only content that feels polished.
Everything is a loot Pinata, and the system that was designed to make you feel good when loot drops, only makes you feel bad every time it's not an upgrade. Much like every time you dont get a prize at a slot machine.

Blizzard still has my monthly sub, for now, but that is only because I can play exactly the content I want, when I want (or when raids are scheduled) in Classic. None of those god-forsaken endless grinds. When TBC rolls around, Shadowlands better be damn amazing.

[kaminaris]

BFA is by far the worst expansion. I've never seen so many people I know stop playing so soon into an expansion. If it wasn't for Classic WoW it would be the longest I haven't played WoW ever.

I did, In MoP our entire guild felt apart, 2 out of 30 people were still playing when WoD released.
They left at the end of MoP with that content draught.

In legion our rooster got changed twice, most of them stopped playing after feeling burned out, I almost quit for good as well.

In BfA couple of our oldest members returned (3 are still playing, 2 left for classic) we did 2 guild merges but funny enough, not many people left the game, most of them are still playing but in different guilds.

So my experience is completely polar opposite.

[msdos]

Will be remembered as a testspansion. An expansion where they tried a lot of new things but where a lot of them failed.

The cheese that didn't stick expansion.

[Tronski]

Classes were broken, items were broken (like assurance of consequence, Rune of Re-Origination), blizzard never bothered to fix that. Vengeance might have been good idea but it went pants on head retarded with tanks being top dpses.

Disci priests were damn OP turning raiding into snoozefest for other healers. Affliction warlocks being unquestionable kings on sustaned AOE, bm hunters deleting people from arenas, retarded instagibb macros, full rotation macros, timeless isle being coin-farm, gigantic content draught at the end of SoO. Boring mobs farming for cloak. Farming frogs for coins. And a tons of bugs.

It's not about "pandas" its about remembering how it was back then without rose tinted glasses.

Oh noes, a world were everything wasn't perfectly balanced and easy predictable farms for legendaries
The complete opposites must be what you love about BfA right?

Disc was OP for maybe a quarter of ToT before it was emergency-nerfed.

Content draught is not an argument for whether the actual content was good or bad. That's like saying Kingdom Hearts 2 was bad because we had to wait 15 years for 3, or half-life 2 is bad and getting stale because we're still waiting for 3.

I give you that macro's were a bit out of control, but they were still damn fun. As were BM Hunters and Disc priests at their height.

People doesn't realise this, but a lot of that fun was removed with WoD in their pursuit to better balance everything. Which incidentally is why people generally didn't like WoD. The contrasts from MoP were too big.

But you loved WoD as well, right?

[kaminaris]

Oh noes, a world were everything wasn't perfectly balanced and easy predictable farms for legendaries
The complete opposites must be what you love about BfA right?

perfectly balanced is funny word because in MoP classes were not even close to each other. On protectors, affli locks did 3M dps while other barely made past 700k.
There was around 100% difference between worst and best spec.

Disc was OP for maybe a quarter of ToT before it was emergency-nerfed.

Disc was op for entire SoO as well

Content draught is not an argument for whether the actual content was good or bad. That's like saying Kingdom Hearts 2 was bad because we had to wait 15 years for 3, or half-life 2 is bad and getting stale because we're still waiting for 3.

Of course it is argument because there wasn't anything to do besides raid. Almost a year of having nothing to do is argument in games like MMO when people are bored and leave game, sometimes for good.

I give you that macro's were a bit out of control, but they were still damn fun. As were BM Hunters and Disc priests at their height.

Not "out of control", they were batshit crazy since people could macro entire rotations and do 90% of their parses with 2-3 buttons.

People doesn't realise this, but a lot of that fun was removed with WoD in their pursuit to better balance everything. Which incidentally is why people generally didn't like WoD. The contrasts from MoP were too big.

It's not fun when classes are broken and you happen to like the "short end of stick". It's not fun being deleted from arena within 2 global cooldowns. It's not fun not being able to compete with tanks as a DPS in DPS rankings. It's not fun having tons of abilities that you just don't use. It's not fun when it's better to take another tank than your class. It's not fun when your friends leave the game out of boredom. It's not fun when the other dude macroed their all rotation to one button and is doing the same dps as other guy who is trying.

But you loved WoD as well, right?

No it was shit, destroyed economy, garrisons were too OP, no reason to leave it, zero content for casuals. The only thing I liked in WoD was raids cause these are always good and ashran.

[Tronski]

perfectly balanced is funny word because in MoP classes were not even close to each other. On protectors, affli locks did 3M dps while other barely made past 700k.
There was around 100% difference between worst and best spec.


Disc was op for entire SoO as well



Of course it is argument because there wasn't anything to do besides raid. Almost a year of having nothing to do is argument in games like MMO when people are bored and leave game, sometimes for good.



Not "out of control", they were batshit crazy since people could macro entire rotations and do 90% of their parses with 2-3 buttons.



It's not fun when classes are broken and you happen to like the "short end of stick". It's not fun being deleted from arena within 2 global cooldowns. It's not fun not being able to compete with tanks as a DPS in DPS rankings. It's not fun having tons of abilities that you just don't use. It's not fun when it's better to take another tank than your class. It's not fun when your friends leave the game out of boredom. It's not fun when the other dude macroed their all rotation to one button and is doing the same dps as other guy who is trying.


No it was shit, destroyed economy, garrisons were too OP, no reason to leave it, zero content for casuals. The only thing I liked in WoD was raids cause these are always good and ashran.

I think we both can agree that you are in the target audience for BfA where everything is balanced and there's always something to do, whereas I will be enjoying Classic where nothing is balanced and I can log in once a week to raid.

[mojusk]

It was bad for 90% of legion. Corruption is not worse than legiondaries, you can reliable farm them or straight up buy the ones you want for gold.

The amount of work I put into getting my BiS legiondary (~8 months) is comparable to farming enough gold to buy every single corruption on max ilvl on AH on first month.

And don't forget arcanocrystal farming and rng rolling for vendor tokens. Don't forget titanforging was severly nerfed in BfA.

RNG not even remotely as bad as it was in Legion. Azerite gear is fucking deterministic, essences are deterministic, corruptions can be bought.
The only thing that is trully rng in BfA is gear drop.

i havnt gotten any gushing wound or infinite stars yet.
i do 5-6 visions each week, at least 1 m+15, clear heroic raid and im 10/12 mythic.
chances are that ill never get any of what i want. in theory i could get avoidance the rest of the expac.
and if i actually get what i want, i have to hope that i get good rng procs, because my dps can vary with 20% depending on procs.
i did use about 5mill on boots and a ring with crit%, which is 3rd best, but its reliable and didnt cost gold cap. A pay to win system is worse than any sort of rng system imo. you can do it the hard way or pay 200€ in tokens and get the bis.. nah man.
legiondaries had a finite number of outcomes and you couldnt get the same one over and over, they lasted the entire expansion, and they had bad luck protection.

i agree that essences are good though, some are a boring grind, but they are guarenteed,
but corruption can go burn in hell!

[gutnbrg]

Trashran probably.

yea ashran sucked but i enjoyed 3v3

[BB8]

Amazing expansion.

- Beautiful zones, very nice to level there. It really felt like an rpg.
- Kul Tiras: Jaina reunited with her family. A good strong navy ally for the alliance.
- Sylvanas removed as warchief. A council for the horde.
- The famous Zandalar added. Nice Dino-theme and different then the other troll races.
- Highmountain, Dark Iron and Nightborne... love them.

[kaminaris]

i havnt gotten any gushing wound or infinite stars yet.
i do 5-6 visions each week, at least 1 m+15, clear heroic raid and im 10/12 mythic.
chances are that ill never get any of what i want. in theory i could get avoidance the rest of the expac.
and if i actually get what i want, i have to hope that i get good rng procs, because my dps can vary with 20% depending on procs.
i did use about 5mill on boots and a ring with crit%, which is 3rd best, but its reliable and didnt cost gold cap. A pay to win system is worse than any sort of rng system imo. you can do it the hard way or pay 200€ in tokens and get the bis.. nah man.
legiondaries had a finite number of outcomes and you couldnt get the same one over and over, they lasted the entire expansion, and they had bad luck protection.

i agree that essences are good though, some are a boring grind, but they are guarenteed,
but corruption can go burn in hell!

corruptions are bad simply because they give too much power to single item.
Your gear is ~470 while a single corrupted item has equivalent of ilvl = 600-700
That is the main problem.

RNG is not a problem with corruptions, you can work your way earning gold in game and just buying corruption on AH.
There was no such option in legion because if it was I would have bought it 2 months in expansion and not have to grind all the shit content I hate for 8 months.

When something can be worked towards without counting on luck it's not RNG.
When you have to grind all the shit content and hope for luck, it's RNG.

[Flay-]

Only time will tell, but I’m guessing with hate. During vanilla people said the game was broken during tbc people said the game was broken during wotlk people said the game was broken and so on and so on.... now it seems to be a general consensus of vanilla,tbc,wotlk all good. Cata, mists, wod bad. There’s a small group that enjoys mists more than others but this is what I’ve seen.

I never hard of anyone saying the game was *broken* during WoTLK, or Vanilla for that matter. Sure, there were some criticisms, but Vanilla and WoTLK expansion have been two of the most loved eras of this game.

[Ardenaso]

I was expecting BFA to be an all-out war to the bitter end to pave the way for the next Warcraft saga.

I will remember it as 20% of that

[Nicholaes92]

yea ashran sucked but i enjoyed 3v3

Wod was probably the expansion I played the most 3v3 even though I hated it the most.

During this time I got in an accident at work and lost part of a finger so I had a lot of time off and it was during the winter. I came back to arenas after just casually playing for years (didn’t take it seriously in a long time) came back and played survival then bm hunter.... the game felt WAAAAY too easy. It was the most scripted pvp I have ever been apart of.

Every game was like this, enter arena, see comp, tell yourself “ok my druid is going to stun shaman, warrior will spell reflect, I’ll growl, then trap, then the shaman will trinket, I’ll scatter, pally will stun, druid will clone, shaman will totem, I’ll explosive the enemy then kill totem, my trap will be back up, we will win”

And it was like this every. Single. Game. Ended up with like a 2800 rating doing this. I played it the most but it felt so dirty because of how easy it was.

[Arbs]

To me the worst because I actually stopped playing entirely & used that time for another game. Cata & WoD I was still actively playing, just not as much as I did in other expansions.